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Unread 06-25-2012, 10:07 AM   #1471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallsofstone View Post
Sundowner, what's the plan with the rear bumper at this point? Also, how are Judgemental Chicken and Normally-Jaded Zebra getting along...I mean what with the chicken's apparently volatle personality and his car?
The normally-jaded zebra seems completely immune to all of Judgmental Chicken's supernatural powers. We're conducting tests to see if the technique can be bottled and incorporated into hand lotions.

The Plan With The Rear Bumper At This Point...

Well, the short answer is "I really don't know."

I haven't heard anything from Rampage since last week so I have no idea about what's going on at their end; I assume they got the one I sent back but I've gotten no confirmation of that. They were supposed to have a replacement sent to me at the end of last week or the first of this week, so that may already be happening...but I don't have any confirmation of this, either. So I don't know what's taking place on their side of the equation.

On top of that, I really don't know what we're going to do with the bumper when it gets here. Almost every evening this week we've been standing around and figuring out some of Greta's future build - the reconfigured top, the half-doors, the on-board air routing, trusses for the rear axle and rear four-link, etc, etc... - and one of the big issues has been the question of the tire carrier. A lot of things are up in the air, but one of the "for certain" issues is that the tire is NOT going to be mounted on some sort of bumper-based swing-out configuration. The more I've thought on it, the more I prefer other options. Here are a few of the factors that are prompting a move away from the bumper-mounted carrier...

- The spare tire is the one piece of equipment that you LEAST want to use, and that is used the LEAST frequently...yet you have to interact with it every time you want to get to your gear-storage locations. Also, using two latches to get into the tailgate four times a day is slightly annoying.
- Almost every expedition-styled rig out there seems to have their spare tire/s mounted in mostly-out-of-the-way locations. I can't tell you how many I see that keep the spares up on the roof rack, where they're safely out of sight and out of mind.
- Rigs that expect to replace a tire or that have to carry a ready-to-go spare usually mount them in the body area, somewhere over the rear axle...pre-runners and serious rockcrawlers come to mind, here. I don't often see spares mounted out on the a**-end of those vehicles.
- Of all the carrier configurations out there, the bumper-mount has the longest distance between the center of the supported mass and the points that support that mass. In other words, the tire is held furthest from the latch and hinge in this arrangement.
- The bumper-mount carriers have the fewest supporting points for the movable carrier/tire mass...they have a hinge and a latch, and that's all. Most tub-mounted carriers have four support points - two hinges, a latch and a snubber - as does the factory tailgate. Drop-down carriers have two latches instead of one, but still have four points of support. Pre-runner carriers have four or five points, depending on the cradle design.
- The bumper-mount carrier design puts the weight of the tire and the carrier the furthest from the rear axle, and also surprisingly high up.

So, all told, I don't have too many arguments that are prompting me to use the bumper-mounted carrier...and thus I am left with either modifying/deleting the carrier portions of the bumper, or simply sitting it aside until we get ready to work on Annabelle's LJ, where it might be of better use.

As for what configuration Greta will receive...I'm really not sure. The best two ideas we've had are to construct a pre-runner carrier in the rear roll-cage area or to maintain the spare in its factory location, albeit on a reinforced tailgate. Either would work well, but the latter would be better for gear/cargo transport, because it would allow something like Poly's Baja Basket to be mounted over the deck cover.

I suppose the long answer is "I don't know" as well.

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Unread 06-25-2012, 10:44 AM   #1472
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One of my thoughts to spare mounting is "pre-runner" style, but horizontal on top of a tray, so gear, stuff, girlie things, can go underneath. However I've not done the math to see if that is even possible with a 35".
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Unread 06-25-2012, 11:21 AM   #1473
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Man I've been gone for a few days and you are questioning your entire existence. I suppose I shouldn't leave you to your own devices for quite so long!
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Unread 06-25-2012, 11:27 AM   #1474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeets682 View Post
One of my thoughts to spare mounting is "pre-runner" style, but horizontal on top of a tray, so gear, stuff, girlie things, can go underneath. However I've not done the math to see if that is even possible with a 35".
It's possible, easily. We cut a sheet of cardboard at a 37" diameter and checked with that, and it fits even with the seats all the way back. However, you're not going to have much of a view behind you if you stack it on top of a tray. The best option is to mount something on top of the rear wheel wells...but a deck cover can make that an interesting proposition.

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Man I've been gone for a few days and you are questioning your entire existence. I suppose I shouldn't leave you to your own devices for quite so long!
Oh, the worst thing that someone can do is leave me to think for awhile. There's no telling what'll happen.
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Unread 06-25-2012, 11:54 AM   #1475
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You should consider having a rear deck "duster" cover custom made to fit over the size tire you want to use as a spare. That leaves the lower cargo area free, works perfectly with the top configuration you prefer, the tire stays off of the tailgate, and the tire is protected from the weather. Were you to switch to a hard top, the spare could also remain inside the top itself. The rack mount for the tire could be easily fabricated with your skills. An external rack could be built to optimize the rest of the space above the tire/deck cover inside the roll bars which would also work with a hard top.

Pardon my crude paint skills, but this is what I had in mind.
tire-cover-deck.png  
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Unread 06-25-2012, 12:02 PM   #1476
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Hi there, been following this thread for some time now and must say it has been very entertaining. Even got me to pick back up on fallout: new Vegas. You might want to check out defender racks. They make a frame that mounts over the roof on the TJ

http://www.offroadunlimited.com/orus...dproduct=10480

they sell many different attachments and baskets to go with. I had one on my old XJ which is where I kept the spare, and got one on my KK (will add tire mount when I upgrade tires/wheels) The only gripe I have about the manufacturer is their terrible customer service, which is a shame because they make awesome products. You can always order through a third party like 4wheel parts if you don't want to deal with the headache.
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Unread 06-25-2012, 12:10 PM   #1477
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Something I've been tossing around in my head... (keep in mind I don't have a jeep in my possession ) What is the distance from outside frame rail to outside frame rail? I have a vision of the tire being mounted under the jeep, and sticking out a bit in the back, and essentially acting as a bumper on it's own. The gastank will be in the way a bit... I'm not sure how much room you have to work with here...
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Unread 06-25-2012, 01:23 PM   #1478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mallanaga View Post
Something I've been tossing around in my head... (keep in mind I don't have a jeep in my possession ) What is the distance from outside frame rail to outside frame rail? I have a vision of the tire being mounted under the jeep, and sticking out a bit in the back, and essentially acting as a bumper on it's own. The gastank will be in the way a bit... I'm not sure how much room you have to work with here...
NONE AT ALL your tire would just be hanging there in full view and right in the way of everthing even parking lot dips and speed bumps
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Unread 06-25-2012, 02:44 PM   #1479
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I'm getting banner ads here to join a chicken forum. I blame Sundowner and his sammich habit
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Unread 06-25-2012, 05:03 PM   #1480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallsofstone View Post
Pardon my crude paint skills, but this is what I had in mind.
You're all over one of the possible answers to the riddle. Let me ask you this, however: what would happen if we just cut a few smaller holes in the cover?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsburton84 View Post
You might want to check out defender racks. They make a frame that mounts over the roof on the TJ
Very appealing, especially for my kayaks and canoes (plural). However, I just can't get past the inherent tall-ness. For someone that doesn't mind that look, it's a great solution.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mallanaga View Post
What is the distance from outside frame rail to outside frame rail? I have a vision of the tire being mounted under the jeep, and sticking out a bit in the back, and essentially acting as a bumper on it's own. The gastank will be in the way a bit... I'm not sure how much room you have to work with here...
43 inches from outside to outside. However...

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Originally Posted by balzer View Post
NONE AT ALL your tire would just be hanging there in full view and right in the way of everthing even parking lot dips and speed bumps
...this is an understatement.
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Unread 06-25-2012, 06:03 PM   #1481
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Look at Rokmens' Freak Named Jake build. They have pictures on FB and they have a pretty interesting way of mounting the spare.
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Unread 06-25-2012, 06:20 PM   #1482
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I've been kicking around the spare tire deal as well. For many years I have not carried a spare. And in 16 years of owning my Jeep I've never needed to use the spare. I have onboard air and just plug my tires if needed. But I know one day I might pop a hole in the sidewall and if that happens ill be stranded. I do have a spare at my house on a trailer if needed though.

I've thought about getting a 35" skinny spare for my tailgate. That would eliminate a lot of weight, and give me a sort of donut to get home on if need be. The problem I've run into is, it's easy to get a rim in any size you want, but to find a skinny tire equivalent of a 35" tire is hard to find. So for now my spare sits on the trailer.

Maybe that's a possible rout for you to go. A small trailer will help in spreading your gear out and leave more room in your Jeep for essentials, and passenger comfort. If your wife / partner has a full size spare then you don't need one. If you have a highlight Jack then she / they don't need one...

Some items like first aid kits and emergency supply's are needed in both vehicles, but other items are huge and can be shared between more than one rig... My wife has an Avalanche. She can carry my spare if need be.....
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Unread 06-25-2012, 07:51 PM   #1483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunHo198
I've been kicking around the spare tire deal as well. For many years I have not carried a spare. And in 16 years of owning my Jeep I've never needed to use the spare. I have onboard air and just plug my tires if needed. But I know one day I might pop a hole in the sidewall and if that happens ill be stranded. I do have a spare at my house on a trailer if needed though.

I've thought about getting a 35" skinny spare for my tailgate. That would eliminate a lot of weight, and give me a sort of donut to get home on if need be. The problem I've run into is, it's easy to get a rim in any size you want, but to find a skinny tire equivalent of a 35" tire is hard to find. So for now my spare sits on the trailer.

Maybe that's a possible rout for you to go. A small trailer will help in spreading your gear out and leave more room in your Jeep for essentials, and passenger comfort. If your wife / partner has a full size spare then you don't need one. If you have a highlight Jack then she / they don't need one...

Some items like first aid kits and emergency supply's are needed in both vehicles, but other items are huge and can be shared between more than one rig... My wife has an Avalanche. She can carry my spare if need be.....
You're hitting the root of the problem in my opinion. The TJ just isn't the right vehicle if you need to have a mobile base camp. Without a convoy of them or a trailer to haul extra gear, it is nigh impossible to get everything necessary into such a small vehicle.

To use a TJ as your main vehicle in the wasteland pretty much requires the use of a rugged offload-capable trailer. If this can be accepted then the line of thought immediately shifts from "how do I cram all my **** in here?" to "what's the best way to build a stable platform that won't dump all my **** out into the radioactive nethers?"

Personally I find this problem a more agreeable one to tackle since it: allows me to build a temporary base camp to venture from, allows me to carry almost anything and everything I could need, and makes the jeep itself less burdened and thus more capable of tackling obstacles (when not towing of course).

I like the idea of a skinny spare to carry around. It would certainly be easier to store in/on the jeep and so long as it can get you back to your trailer (see where I'm going with this?) then you can have a full size spare stored there.
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Unread 06-25-2012, 08:26 PM   #1484
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You're hitting the root of the problem in my opinion...
You guys are both doing exactly that...hitting the root of the problem. There's just not a lot of room to carry a spare tire AND a ton of gear...thus, one is left with the decision: "What will I take with me, and how will I carry it?" This is the single biggest reason behind going ultralight in terms of gear size...it will allow me to carry adequate amounts of gear for Greta AND her occupants.

Let me throw this out as well: I'm not even totally sold on the concept of a spare, at this point. I might be better served by getting very, very good at tire repair and making sure that I'm not wheeling by myself...which I shouldn't be doing anyway. I don't really want to give the spare up entirely, but I also don't think that I always need to carry it...and that makes me wonder about the concept of a multi-purpose mounting...hmm...

Note: I'm not averse to a trailer. I want one badly. However...funding: until Umbrella decides to put more money into the Advanced Ground Vehicle Division, I have to stay on a tight budget.
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Unread 06-25-2012, 08:40 PM   #1485
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Originally Posted by Sundowner View Post
You guys are both doing exactly that...hitting the root of the problem. There's just not a lot of room to carry a spare tire AND a ton of gear...thus, one is left with the decision: "What will I take with me, and how will I carry it?" This is the single biggest reason behind going ultralight in terms of gear size...it will allow me to carry adequate amounts of gear for Greta AND her occupants.

Let me throw this out as well: I'm not even totally sold on the concept of a spare, at this point. I might be better served by getting very, very good at tire repair and making sure that I'm not wheeling by myself...which I shouldn't be doing anyway. I don't really want to give the spare up entirely, but I also don't think that I always need to carry it...and that makes me wonder about the concept of a multi-purpose mounting...hmm...

Note: I'm not averse to a trailer. I want one badly. However...funding: until Umbrella decides to put more money into the Advanced Ground Vehicle Division, I have to stay on a tight budget.

well.... it's smittybilt..... but..... http://www.smittybilt.com/product/index/79.htm

i know it doesn't solve your tire problem.... but it's multipurpose. i've been debating it (if i can get past the fact that it's smittybilt and that AWFUL F***ING NAME)

relevant:
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