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1984-2001 Jeep Cherokee Rear Leaf Spring (4 Leaf) Pair1984-2001 Jeep Cherokee Front Upper & Lower Control ArSwag Off Road BIG-HIT TJ-YJ Rear Bumper

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Unread 06-21-2012, 08:23 PM   #1396
45AUTO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recoil View Post
So if you were to remove the rear track bar the axle would be held into position front to back by the control arms but it would easily shift side to side. If you take the two upper control arms and leave the mounting places on the frame the same but mount the axle sides on the center of the axle it would be much more difficult for the axle to move laterally.
Now if you do this with the upper control arms AND move the forward mounts of the lower control arms together you have a double triangulated suspension and it is extremely difficult for the a le to move laterally.

Triangles are strong
I'm assuming that to triangulate the lowers you'd have to mount the forward points to the skid plate... ?

Wouldn't you run into binding issues while flexing having the two "triangles" inverted? I'm picturing the Jewish star of David. (Not a religious reference but more for pictoral understanding)

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Unread 06-21-2012, 08:58 PM   #1397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 45AUTO View Post
I'm assuming that to triangulate the lowers you'd have to mount the forward points to the skid plate... ?

Wouldn't you run into binding issues while flexing having the two "triangles" inverted? I'm picturing the Jewish star of David. (Not a religious reference but more for pictoral understanding)
Well you need to make a rear crossmember for the arms to mount on.

Here's a double tri

[]----O----[]
X X
/. \/. \
The uppers attatch at the pumpkin and outboard frame rails
The lowers attatch on the axles by the wheels and center of the new crossmember. Basically making two X's.

Here's a pic



And



The bind is there but is less due to not having the track bar pulling the axle to one side as the suspension lowers.
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Unread 06-21-2012, 10:16 PM   #1398
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As much as I hate to interrupt a good suspension debate, I did promise a continuation of the backstory for the bumpers...so with that in mind:

The Rampage Rollercoaster: A Pictorial Essay - Part 2...

So we left off with some additional Frontal Hotness, which showed Annabelle taking off the upper brake light assembly. What came before that, however, was the far-too-long-delayed removal of the factory spare tire...which Annabelle also handled.

Pictured: Even girls hate locking lug nuts.




I can't tell you how nice it felt to take that puny little spare tire down. Actually, that's a complete lie: it felt wonderful, and as soon as it was loose we literally pulled it off and let it roll away into a dark corner of the garage, hopefully to die quietly and with as little fuss and ceremony as was possible. In contrast to this easy removal and discarding - callous, really when you consider it - pulling off the brake light was actually a tiny bit more involved than I had planned on. For some strange reason, I hadn't thought about removing the contact switch and pulling out the soon-to-be-not-needed wiring. Luckily, I had an entire screwdriver set already at hand.

Pictured: Even this normally-jaded zebra is totally floored by the limitless utility of the TJ Toolkit.




People might pick on this little tool set and find all kinds of things that they call "grievous and appalling omissions" - I might be paraphrasing, there - but so far it's proven to be even more useful than I thought it would be, and I try to use it as much as is possible in order to convey the amount of work it can truly do. If you haven't already done so, I highly suggest assembling something similar and seeing what you can get done with it; you'll find both your repair skills and confidence going rapidly upwards.

One thing that the little kit can't do, however, is help with cleaning...and let me tell you: when you disengage the factory tire carrier from the tailgate you're going to be shocked at what's gotten under there and sullied your flawless factory paint job.

Pictured: Actually, I take that back...most Jeep paint looks exactly like this.




This was the point where I decided to pull and paint my fender flares, incidentally...and it was also the point at which that retarded episode with the clay bar and the strange grey dots on the hood began to replay itself in my head. This time, however, I was prepared to make the experience much more enjoyable...

Pop Quiz: Two things can make any clay-barring experience immensely more enjoyable. What are they?

A: Beer and pizza.
B: Ice-cold Dr. Pepper and sammiches.
C: Indentured servants and a cattle prod.
D: White T-shirts and boobs.

Correct Answer: D. While all are admirable additions to the clay-barring process, only D has a 100% success rate. To prove this, I cite two reasons...first, the fact that clay-barring usually occurs immediately after car washing, and second...

Pictured: I really shouldn't have to explain myself, here.




While Anna worked on getting the tailgate cleaned up, I unpacked the rear bumper, skimmed over the instructions, got the hardware organized, and shot a quick coat of paint on Greta's rear crossmember. The slower members of the class - read: "those of you that are still staring at the pictures" - won't realize that the operative and destructive word in that previous sentence was "skimmed." Normally, I'm not a person that skims over things...I usually read for comprehension. However...

Pictured: You guys were totally right about there being a missing part of this build thread.




...my attention was focused somewhat elsewhere. I managed to pay attention to the part about drilling extra holes in the crossmember, though, so with that in mind we soft-mounted the bumper in order to take a few measurements. As it turned out, Greta's rear end doesn't look too bad, naked!

Pictured: In the Jeep world, this is like walking down the street with your skirt over your shoulder.




While I may have gotten sold on spare-less TJs at that moment, I was also starting to be concerned. In addition to the fact that the lower mounting tabs were NOT lining up at all, the bumper's mounting plates offered almost NO lateral movement on Greta's frame when it was bolted up...which meant that we were going to have to be exactingly precise in our drilling. The easiest way to make sure that we nailed it and didn't have to take a carbide bit to the holes was to do the following.

Step 1: Before soft-mounting, draw a reference line through the center of the holes and onto the top of the bumper.




Step 2: Take a moment to marvel at the fact that the spindle is f****** MASSIVE.




Step 3: Once the bumper is soft mounted, transfer the lines to the top of the crossmember...




Step 4: ...and then down onto the rear face, where the hole centers can be marked with a centering punch.




Step 5: Make a mental note to FINALLY buy some real safety glasses and then proceed to put holes in metal.




Valuable Information: When drilling metal, the centering punch is your second-best friend because it keeps the drill bit from walking when you start the hole. Your best friend, however, is any form of oil that can act as a lubricant/coolant...because it's this factor that keeps your drill bit FUNCTIONAL. Failing to use some sort of lubricant/coolant is a nearly-guaranteed way to burn up a bit, and in addition to being wasteful it can leave you high and dry at the absolute worst of times. We used some Liquid Wrench lubricating oil, but you can use most anything. I've seen tranny fluid, water, WD40 and even gear oil used for a cutting lubricant. Anything is better than nothing.

Another good tip is "use the right drill bit." We used the bit that Rampage suggested - 7/16" - but the bolts wouldn't clear.

Pictured: An ironic solution.




The secondary caption to this picture should be "And don't ever do what you see me doing, here...even when you're as tired and exasperated as I was at that moment." What am I doing that's so wrong, you ask? Well, I'm using a carbide cutter in a drill...and drills aren't designed for that kind of thing. Carbide bits like this are designed to route out the sides of a hole, and drills don't take side-loading very well at all: doing this kind of thing is a good way to ruin the bearings.

If I'd been a bit more patient I would have gotten the air grinder out and done it the right way, and although this little 12-volt Hitachi survived the impromptu torture test with flying colors - it sank all four holes and routed each out without flinching at all, on one battery charge - that wasn't nearly enough to lift my spirits. As it turned out, we hit the ten-ring with each hole and they lined up perfectly...but the bumper still wasn't going to go on. There was literally NO F****** WAY to get the central four bolts installed: the gas tank was totally in the way. A call to Rampage would confirm this, the next day.

So, at this point, we'd had the following issues:
- The front lower tabs were - in my opinion - not optimal and in need of replacement with units that would hold under any and all circumstances.
- The rear lower tabs in the wrong place entirely, and could not be used at all, which left the lower portion of the rear bumper floating even more than the front.
- The mounting plates offered no lateral movement, and made the measurement more nerve-wracking than it should have been.
- Rampage's instructions cited the use of a drill bit that was too small for the fastener that would pass through the resulting hole.
- The instructions also totally failed to mention that the gas tank would need to be dropped in order to secure the inner four bolts.

Result: We threw in the towel and then quickly picked it back up, because one should always know where their towel is. However, we then said "F*** it, let's go get a beer and some dinner" and departed to do exactly that. Thankfully, there was a spare LJ on hand for that task, and Life subsequently felt a bit better.

It's also worth mentioning that Life didn't get truly confusing until the next day...and since there's photographic evidence of that fact, you'll want to see what went on then, as well.

There's more coming, I promise. Really. I wouldn't lie to you about this.
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Unread 06-21-2012, 10:37 PM   #1399
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Im loving the build sundowner! Im halfway through and its been highly enjoyable. One of the best written and phrased reads on jf. If not any jeep related forum. Now the reason i post before reading the entire thing. I have NEVER played a fallout game. Pop quiz!
A: fallout 3 goty edition
B: fallout new vegas
C: A plus mw3
D: chick fil a
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Unread 06-22-2012, 12:53 AM   #1400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundowner View Post

Step 5: Make a mental note to FINALLY buy some real safety glasses and then proceed to put holes in metal.
just so you know, your split jacket oakleys are probably BETTER rated for that than "real safety glasses". the only reason i would reconsider is that you can replace safety glasses for much less than the oakleys. even then, lens replacement on those is fairly inexpensive.

that being said, my first pair of oakleys was a pair of juliets (which were visible in my first avatar). if i had a dollar for every time i got punched wearing those, or dropped them etc., i would have a new soft-top already. they held up amazingly well. the thing that finally killed them was sliding off the roof of my former vehicle in the loop of a local mall and being run over more times than i can imagine in the span of an hour and a half. when i got to the scene of the crime, the lenses had BENT, not shattered even when folded well over 90 degrees. since then i have bought a second pair, and i shoot in them, wrench in them etc. i don't **** around with the safety of my eyes. (they also have a whole section on their site dedicated to all the standards they exceed and their own torture tests).

sorry to hijack, just thought it would be good for people to know those are TOTALLY safe, if not the most cost-effective choice.
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Unread 06-22-2012, 01:32 AM   #1401
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sorry to hijack, just thought it would be good for people to know those are TOTALLY safe, if not the most cost-effective choice.
Not a hijack at all...that's good information. I did happen to know that they're quite safe, but as you said - expensive. However, they're also a couple of years old and I don't mind a bit of metal hitting them every once in awhile.

What I don't want people to infer is that ANY pair of glasses is safe...some are very much NOT safe, in fact. Like you, I do all kinds of things with these and don't worry about the safety of my eyes...but I know that these particular frames/lenses can take it. I wouldn't chance any of these repairs/mods unless I knew that and had it in writing from the company. And that's exactly the case, here.

Good follow up. Thank you.
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Unread 06-22-2012, 05:49 AM   #1402
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Shimano hat?

Is there a side of you we've yet to learn about?
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Cleaning this thing up is similar to a slightly abused pornstar throwing on a bunch of makeup to try to hide her eternal scars, but I think she doesn't look too bad
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Unread 06-22-2012, 06:02 AM   #1403
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Shimano hat?

Is there a side of you we've yet to learn about?
i noticed that too..... but figured it went hand in hand with ultralight packing.
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CRAWLEY'S STORY <3 (sort of a build thread)
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Unread 06-22-2012, 06:31 AM   #1404
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now that I have read it all i can subscribe!! haha. awsome info and write-up. i dont get all the references and dont forsee me ever building a jeep so capable as this but the info and such is very helpful and gives me ideas here and there. thank you sir.
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Unread 06-22-2012, 08:12 AM   #1405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djflyy View Post
Is there a side of you we've yet to learn about?
Only one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by misterpookie View Post
i noticed that too..... but figured it went hand in hand with ultralight packing.
I suppose that's a possible answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chukky82 View Post
now that I have read it all i can subscribe!! haha. awsome info and write-up. i dont get all the references and dont forsee me ever building a jeep so capable as this but the info and such is very helpful and gives me ideas here and there. thank you sir.
Well, you can do the same thing that I do: every time something flies past me that I don't get, I stop to figure it out. With that said: the future seems to only rarely work out as we intend.
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Unread 06-22-2012, 08:18 AM   #1406
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Originally Posted by djflyy View Post
Shimano hat?

Is there a side of you we've yet to learn about?
There's a bike w/ helmet in the background of a few of the latest photos. Perhaps Sundowner is part of one of those underground street racing gangs? ... Only with bicycles...

Now I'm imagining that epic beardness flying free in the breeze.
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Unread 06-22-2012, 08:25 AM   #1407
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There's a bike w/ helmet in the background of a few of the latest photos. Perhaps Sundowner is part of one of those underground street racing gangs?
Haven't been on a bike in years, actually. That belongs to my dad.

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Unread 06-22-2012, 12:48 PM   #1408
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I think we need more pics...
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Unread 06-22-2012, 12:52 PM   #1409
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Pictured: I f****** HATE rust.

Seriously, I do...and to unreasonable levels. I hate it more than I hate monkeys...and as anyone that knows me will attest, I seriously f****** hate monkeys. I hate them more than I hate mayonnaise and the French and all forms of pickled vegetables, and we know how much I hate a pickle. So, even though none of the rust shown here is structural it's well worth eradicating through administration of a quick brushing, a wash-down, and a covering shot with some paint.
It sounds like you hate rust about as much as I hate packing peanuts. The person who invented packing peanuts should be cut like an emo kid, covered in honey and sat on top of a fire ant hill. After the screaming has turned into a dull groaning they should then set ablaze in a bon fire to remember.
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Unread 06-22-2012, 01:11 PM   #1410
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Originally Posted by GoGetEmTurbo View Post
It sounds like you hate rust about as much as I hate packing peanuts. The person who invented packing peanuts should be cut like an emo kid, covered in honey and sat on top of a fire ant hill. After the screaming has turned into a dull groaning they should then set ablaze in a bon fire to remember.
This must have been your cube...

And to kinda keep things on track...as others have said, very informative, yet entertaining build. I'd love to be a part of the Wasteland Survival Clinic, but it'd be close to a 10 or 12 hour drive, although if it's at the right place with stuff around to keep the wife occupied, might be a nice vacation. Keep up the excellent work!
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