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Unread 05-02-2014, 05:30 PM   #6841
G Beasley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundowner View Post
The Savvy 3" would be my choice, between those two.
I have them and they ride nice , just a little firmer than the OME's I had .

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Unread 05-02-2014, 09:00 PM   #6842
kawi358
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Sundowner, I have been reading your thread for quite some time and I must say, it's a great read. I'm always entertained. Every bit of work you do to Greta is so well thought out!

On to the engine swap ideas:
Why not a 4.8? It makes very close numbers to the LM7, just a little higher up in the rpms. They're just as easy to find as the 5.3 and some people may let them go a little cheaper because they aren't on the performance radar as much as the 5.3. Just my $.02

Can't wait to see the build as it progresses!
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Unread 05-03-2014, 07:52 AM   #6843
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Originally Posted by kawi358 View Post
Sundowner, I have been reading your thread for quite some time and I must say, it's a great read. I'm always entertained. Every bit of work you do to Greta is so well thought out!

On to the engine swap ideas:
Why not a 4.8? It makes very close numbers to the LM7, just a little higher up in the rpms. They're just as easy to find as the 5.3 and some people may let them go a little cheaper because they aren't on the performance radar as much as the 5.3. Just my $.02

Can't wait to see the build as it progresses!
Another first poster! Wow! I see you've been on the board for awhile, but officially: Welcome! I'm glad that you've been enjoying the thread and I'm glad that you can put up with me over-thinking everything that I do while I save the caps to do it.

Now, about the 4.8...

I have to say that I don't really understand the reason for the LR4 existing alongside the LM7 because - as you succinctly said - the numbers for the 4.8 are ridiculously close to that of the 5.3. The only thing I could come up with is fuel mileage; ostensibly, the 4.8 should do a little better on mileage and be a little more friendly when driving around town due to the slightly-higher-up power range, and the 5.3 should be a little better at towing and hauling. The problem comes into play when you realize that when you drop either engine into a 5,000+ pound truck, the difference that ten horsepower and thirty pound-feet of torque can make are somewhat minimalized...and the fuel mileage becomes almost exactly the same. So from that perspective, I just don't get it.

From the perspective of performance, however, the 4.8 starts to make a LOT of sense. It has a shorter stroke than the 5.3 and while that means that it loses a bit of low end torque, the short stroke also means that the 4.8 can rev a bit quicker...and contrary to popular belief, higher-RPM power isn't the worst thing in the world, off-road. To a great extent - and I'm probably going to start a war when I say this - power is power no matter how and when you generate it: it's the job of your gears to effectively transmit that power and turn it into motive force. Two-speed transfer cases and five-speed manual transmissions give you ten gear ratios from which to choose...so as long as your axles are geared appropriately, it really shouldn't matter if your power/torque peaks are at 2,500 RPM or 5,500 RPM. A second important factor is the rod ratio: on a 4.8 it's somewhere in the vicinity of 1.92. That's retard-long, and although I could go into a lot of reasons that long-rod engines are very desirable, I'll just sum it all up by saying "long rod ratios make for a long-lived lower end." Reliability is great, but even more interesting than that is the 4.8's piston dwell time; it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 12. This long dwell time means - theoretically - that the 4.8 will respond exceptionally well to forced induction. The 700-hp. turbocharged 4.8 builds that I've seen are a solid testimony to this notion, and the fact that these builds are reliable with all stock internals is potent idea-fodder, indeed; a supercharged or turbocharged 4.8 would be monstrous in a 4,300-lb. TJ.

So, yeah...the 4.8 is a very good option, and it could easily make all the power that I'd ever want to see in anything outside of a race rig. The biggest benefit to them, however, is your final point: they're not a sought-after engine, so they'll cost even less than an already-cheap LM7. A complete 4.8 - accessories, harness, computer, everything - is a $500 engine. The question, usually, is whether you want to spend a couple hundred more for the 5.3, or a few hundred more for the 6.0...and since those few hundred dollars can equal significant improvements in torque output while still in stock trim, the 4.8 usually loses out. If you're going to make any sort of modifications to it, though, all bets are off.
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Unread 05-03-2014, 08:45 AM   #6844
CEScuzzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundowner View Post
Now, about the 4.8...
Does the 4.8 have similar aftermarket support though? Even if the initial price is cheaper, if the price to build and maintain is more expensive, then the initial savings aren't really there.

I agree that power is power. I drove a honda for 8 years and never worried about the fact that at cruising speed I was turning 3k RPMs. I think this is an issue though that boils down to personal preference and driving style. I love my 4.0L, but I miss the 4.3L in my '94 silverado. The 4.0L has more horsepower certainly, but I loved the feel of that 4.3L in the low-end. I could do anything in 3rd gear. It all boils down to what you like and how you make it work.

I think with either engine, you'll find yourself happy with the results. What would be ideal though is to find and drive similarly equipped vehicles, one with the 4.8L and one with the 5.3L, and drive them to get a true feel for the differences. Posted numbers released by the manufacturer are one thing, but they can't substitute for first hand experience. That's my take anyway. Just food for thought.

-Scuzz
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Unread 05-03-2014, 10:40 AM   #6845
kawi358
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The 4.8 and 5.3 share the same block. The 4.8 just has a shorter stroke. It's LS based, so cams/valvetrain, etc. should swap in.

I agree with Scuzz, you will be happy with either engine. They are both such a vast improvement over the 4.0.
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Unread 05-03-2014, 07:47 PM   #6846
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Originally Posted by kawi358 View Post
The 4.8 and 5.3 share the same block. The 4.8 just has a shorter stroke. It's LS based, so cams/valvetrain, etc. should swap in.

I agree with Scuzz, you will be happy with either engine. They are both such a vast improvement over the 4.0.
This pretty much sums it up. Now, I need to find a solid one and get a solid transmission behind it.
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Unread 05-04-2014, 08:18 AM   #6847
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4.8 seems like the way to go. After owning a 3.6 JKR I can attest to the higher end power not being an issue.
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Unread 05-04-2014, 08:44 AM   #6848
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Todayis one of those days that's going to be filled up with all kinds of random Jeeping. Painting is first on the agenda: I'm going to try to throw a coat of satin black on the trimmed stock bumper - yep, I'm still working on it! - and I'm also going to work with some of the VHT paint that I got for Sputnik. Yesterday, I stripped all of the old paint off - it was heat-blistered ad peeling from all of the test-grilling that we've done in the last week - and I put on a coat of VHT primer and some VHT black on top of that; they seemed to bake on rather well but I ended up with a few runs and thin spots so some sanding, repainting and rebaking is in order.

While we're on the subject of grilling: Friday evening I packed Sputnik up, grabbed a bag of charcoal and headed over to the park to do a basic portability test; I wanted to see how transportable a miniature charcoal grill really is. Well, to make a long story short: not only did we manage to get it set up and cooking quite nicely in just a few minutes' time...

Pictured: I set up a grill on top of a grill; my Chi is strong.




...but we also managed to cook some really good chicken...

Pictured: Nom nom nom nom nom nom...




...and we got Sputnik cooled off and all packed back up within an hour and a half from the time we left the house: that's pretty damned impressive, I think! The only downside was that we didn't really have anything to put the food/cooking gear in...so with that in mind I've decided to get all of my camp kitchen stuff gathered, sorted, organized and stored into one TJ-sized container. I'm thinking that I can use some sort of open-topped tool tote: a large one could carry the grill, charcoal, all of the utensils, a cook set, small stove - I have a really small stove, by the way; it makes Sputnik look MASSIVE - fuel, plates, kitchen gear and all of the extra/ancillary stuff that goes into a camp kitchen box. It'll have to be creatively-packed, for sure, but having awesomely-good food on the trail is worth the effort.

So that's one part of Today's Jeeping: the other parts will be getting the LJ cleaned up and ready for new tires! After searching 30 different tire shops and several online retailers, Tire Rack wound up being the cheapest source; a set of five Grabbers in 33x10.5" ended up being right over $200 per tire, which is about what I'd want to pay for a 33". Tomorrow I'll be ordering a Daystar 1" body lift and some JKU springs to level things out and make the necessary clearance, and I'm going to give Brown Dog a call and see if they'll ship me another set of their motor mounts. Front shocks aren't really needed right this second, but when we get them I'm going to skip all of the nonsense and go straight to a pair of Foxes. We should have plenty of room for the tires, but if it turns out that we need a smidgen more I'm going to skip all of the other options and bolt on a set of DeFenders; the only question is whether or not we paint them black or color-match them, and whether or not I go ahead and get a set for Greta...a set which will be installed alongside the HP44, 9" and some slightly-bigger-than-35" tires.

Lastly, I'm still looking for an engine; I've actually got the caps to pick one up right now, but it'll probably stay on a stand until I have it bolted to a transmission, wired up to a harness and as ready-to-bolt-in as is possible. I'd like to get something stronger than the NV3550 or AX15, but I don't really know of many options. I know that rebuilding the 3550 is a problematic proposition, so even though it's supposedly a bit stronger than the AX15 the latter may be the better option. I need to find out where the weak portions are in each gearbox and determine whether or not they can be strengthened...and if not, I need to figure out what transmission I'm going to use. Input is MUCH appreciated, here.

Okay, enough stalling...time to get to work.
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Unread 05-04-2014, 09:30 AM   #6849
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Theres still a set of Tera 2.5s at my place if you want them . Something to think about before you order springs .
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Unread 05-04-2014, 09:43 AM   #6850
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Theres still a set of Tera 2.5s at my place if you want them . Something to think about before you order springs .
I'm only doing the front springs; the JKU's should level it with the rear, which is WAY too high by comparison.
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Unread 05-04-2014, 10:56 AM   #6851
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Ok well shocks are in. I put them on 1 which is way soft. I need to adjust them up a little but I want more seat time first. It rides more like it did. In fact it is way softer.
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Unread 05-04-2014, 03:48 PM   #6852
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Ok well shocks are in. I put them on 1 which is way soft. I need to adjust them up a little but I want more seat time first. It rides more like it did. In fact it is way softer.
Sounds like you had a shock issue, then...and that's fortunate because if you didn't you would be in the same Mystery Boat as me. I'm glad that there was a difference; hopefully you're on your way to solving the problem!

Today's Jeeping, Updated: I didn't get everything done that I wanted to get done because I took a look at the chopped stock bumper and realized that I've been thinking about the end caps in a completely stupid way. I wanted to mold something that would give the ends a more rounded look, but the problem I was having with that approach was the lack of strength that would result: a welded end would add a bit of beef to the assembly. That same welded end, however, would look a bit...off...since it would be flat; thus, I've been at an impasse. Well, today it occurred to me that I can actually just weld a flat end piece on and then use a much-simpler-to-fabricate trim piece to give it the look I want; why I didn't think of this sooner, I'll never know.

Also, I'm debating on whether or not I want an actual camp kitchen box; they're useful, but they take up a bunch of space for what they are. I'm thinking that a separate roll-up table and a tool tote would probably work better but I'm at least paying nominal attention to the box concept. Also, in matters food-related, I did manage to get to the second item on my list today: I got some fresh paint on Sputnik and it looks MUCH better than the previous finish.

Pictured: Great success!




I had to use the kitchen oven to bake it on, which meant that I then had to air out the house afterwards and clean the oven instead of cleaning up Greta and the LJ, but it wasn't a huge deal. I think the VHT paint is going to work very well; it takes an entire can to coat the grill and the legs, but the quality of the baked-on paint is a lot higher than that of the Rustoleum that I'd used before. It's a very even, smooth, hard finish...so if it holds up over the long run I'll be in good shape. I would have already fired it up to test it, but against all probability I got sort of...ummm...sidetracked...by sort of ...ummm...buying something from Jankoid.

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Unread 05-04-2014, 06:54 PM   #6853
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...but against all probability I got sort of...ummm...sidetracked...by sort of ...ummm...buying something from Jankoid.
It wouldn't happen to be something born from the minds of General Motors, would it?

-Scuzz
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Unread 05-04-2014, 07:34 PM   #6854
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My guess is that something is black, round and made of rubber. Probably around 37" tall.
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Unread 05-04-2014, 07:41 PM   #6855
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This game could go on forever.
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