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Unread 10-05-2013, 02:55 PM   #5611
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The point is, not all sway bars are the same, and he really should be sporting antirocks

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Unread 10-05-2013, 04:28 PM   #5612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundowner View Post

Incidentally, I really don't understand why the front crossmember chopping isn't done so often as the rear seems to be done, because it actually looks easier in the front than the back; there are no body mounts in the way, no gas tank skid to contend with, etc, etc. All you have to do is make provision to drop the winch down (if that's what you want) and thread it through the front of the bumper itself. Am I missing something?

Believe it or not, this is exactly what they are doing on xtreme 4x4 right now using a Saavy front bumper on a JK. It really is as easy as it seems.
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Unread 10-05-2013, 07:48 PM   #5613
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Originally Posted by balzer View Post
I am wondering if a guy could just leave the stock swaybar position and simply weld the UCF bumper on farther forward than is shown in his pics.
Possibly, yes. That was my first thought. Since it's not a "right now" thing, I'm going to wait until UCF publishes some installation instructions - supposedly forthcoming - and see if I still think this notion will work. If it doesn't...

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Originally Posted by balzer View Post
The big thing about swaybars is with a little creative thinking a guy can go many different routes to make one work. you see it all the time in resto-mods. I'm pretty sure a friend of mine had a mustang sway bar that he modified to fit in his 78 F150 way back when.
...this is my backup plan. There's no hard and fast rule that says I have to keep the swaybar in the factory location.

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The rear really shouldn't be too hard I have seen the plates offered by several companies but I don't like the unfinished look and I would like to have a little tow capability. Nothing serious just like a mini trailer like the ones you can see in "ArmyRN's ultimate harbor freight trailer thread" or possibly a very small pop up tent trailer (because I have my eyes on one). But the rampage bumper is actually pretty big and could be done better. And I think I want to get rid of the spare tire on the back, I haven't fully decided on that though. Im torn because I have used the spare once, in 4 years.
I want a hitch receiver, too. It shouldn't be hard to do, and on the matter of the spare...well, there are all kinds of ways to carry one of those.

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That also brings me to something I have been displeased with and really never thought about when I sold my hard top and went to the soft top. getting into the back of the jeep is far more difficult now. It used to be open the tire swing open the tailgate and lift the glass. Now there are zippers and velcro and plastic strips in the body and a tailgate bar. I mean its not so much difficult as just a hassle and I often find myself just trying to get things in through the tailgate somehow. I think a half cab and open bed is in my jeeps future if I can bring myself to love my jeep again.
Take a step or six back, look at your rig with OBJECTIVITY, and ask "What do I want to do, here?" When you have that answer clearly in mind, I think you'll find yourself more than simply "motivated."

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I would love a gr8top half cab, but they really need to come up with a soft top as well.
You know, I had that exact same thought awhile back...

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Originally Posted by spyder6 View Post
The point is, not all sway bars are the same, and he really should be sporting antirocks
Yes, I really should be. Especially in the front. I'm fine with a stock unit in the rear, but the front is too stiff for anything except hard cornering on the street...and if you think I don't do that on a daily basis, come ride around with me for about ten minutes.

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Originally Posted by 357transam View Post
Believe it or not, this is exactly what they are doing on xtreme 4x4 right now using a Saavy front bumper on a JK. It really is as easy as it seems.
Against all odds, I'm always ahead of the game, somehow. I'm also glad to hear that Savvy is getting some big-media coverage; I've gotten really tired of the 4x4 rags promoting the same tired s*** over and over again. Pleasant change, this.
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Unread 10-06-2013, 06:26 AM   #5614
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Like I said to you last night when we were talking, why not mount the sway behind the axle? You'll be forced to use a wider track or adjust your steering stops, but there isn't any reasoning to why you can't.

The only thing you'll have to do is figure out how to get it to clear the coils and shocks. Perhaps custom arms
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Unread 10-06-2013, 09:07 AM   #5615
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Originally Posted by spyder6 View Post
Like I said to you last night when we were talking, why not mount the sway behind the axle? You'll be forced to use a wider track or adjust your steering stops, but there isn't any reasoning to why you can't. The only thing you'll have to do is figure out how to get it to clear the coils and shocks. Perhaps custom arms
That may very well work; I'm still just absolutely lost, though, on why the UCF offering has to preclude the use of the swaybar. I get the fact that they're throwing that mondo-sized plate behind the winch area, but to be perfectly honest I haven't figured out why that's there, yet, and why it's the size it is.

Today's Jeeping: Compressor work.
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Unread 10-06-2013, 09:19 AM   #5616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundowner
That may very well work; I'm still just absolutely lost, though, on why the UCF offering has to preclude the use of the swaybar. I get the fact that they're throwing that mondo-sized plate behind the winch area, but to be perfectly honest I haven't figured out why that's there, yet, and why it's the size it is.
If you notice the ucf bumper you speak of was developed on a rig with ORI struts which do not require a sway bar to keep things in check. The mondo plate they put behind the winch is there to add strength back to the front of the frame after sinking the winch and totally removing the tube in the front of the frame. It is marketed as a ROCK Crawler bumper, therefore he knows there will be heavy abuse, heavy strain from winching and ect...
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Unread 10-06-2013, 09:36 AM   #5617
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Originally Posted by Hendrix View Post
If you notice the ucf bumper you speak of was developed on a rig with ORI struts which do not require a sway bar to keep things in check. The mondo plate they put behind the winch is there to add strength back to the front of the frame after sinking the winch and totally removing the tube in the front of the frame. It is marketed as a ROCK Crawler bumper, therefore he knows there will be heavy abuse, heavy strain from winching and ect...
Well, the fact that they used ORI's certainly addresses the heretofore-mysterious reason that they dumped the swaybar entirely; good catch on that. I wasn't even paying attention to the photos that clearly show them. I figured that the plate was basically for strength due to the crossmember tube being absent, as you said...but I'm not sure why it extends a couple of inches over the top of the frame rails and has a bend in it unless it's there to hide the grill/frame gap once the factory swaybar and its cover have been removed. I suppose that the increased height could add some additional rigidity to the plate in that particular plane but it don't see how that would be necessary. I also have the feeling that there's some sort of configuration, here, that should allow the swaybar to stay put, and that's what I'm not comprehending. It seems like a piece of box tubing or something could be used to brace the frame in that area...and since we're already cutting the front of the frame apart, all bets are off as to making other cuts, elsewhere. I still feel like I'm missing something, so I'm going to poke around underneath while I'm playing with my compressor bracket here in a bit.
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Unread 10-06-2013, 10:27 AM   #5618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundowner
Well, the fact that they used ORI's certainly addresses the heretofore-mysterious reason that they dumped the swaybar entirely; good catch on that. I wasn't even paying attention to the photos that clearly show them. I figured that the plate was basically for strength due to the crossmember tube being absent, as you said...but I'm not sure why it extends a couple of inches over the top of the frame rails and has a bend in it unless it's there to hide the grill/frame gap once the factory swaybar and its cover have been removed. I suppose that the increased height could add some additional rigidity to the plate in that particular plane but it don't see how that would be necessary. I also have the feeling that there's some sort of configuration, here, that should allow the swaybar to stay put, and that's what I'm not comprehending. It seems like a piece of box tubing or something could be used to brace the frame in that area...and since we're already cutting the front of the frame apart, all bets are off as to making other cuts, elsewhere. I still feel like I'm missing something, so I'm going to poke around underneath while I'm playing with my compressor bracket here in a bit.

As you look a little deeper you will also notice, there is NO steering box either. Full hydro, again why it is marketed as a ROCK Crawler bumper. It's very similar to the BTF version. For the daily use of a TJ in the Wasteland sticking to a more conventional bumper may be the best option.
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Unread 10-06-2013, 01:58 PM   #5619
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As you look a little deeper you will also notice, there is NO steering box either. Full hydro, again why it is marketed as a ROCK Crawler bumper. It's very similar to the BTF version. For the daily use of a TJ in the Wasteland sticking to a more conventional bumper may be the best option.
After lying down under Greta's nose for a bit, it's clear that the steering box is the biggest problem. Even if the swaybar mounts are moved/relocated/refabricated/re-whatevered and the front grill support is reworked, the steering box simply doesn't have anywhere to go. I can see a couple of ways to make everything fit, but each of those ways basically requires complete rework of the steering and either the relocation or removal of the box...and the worst part is that I really wouldn't be saving that much real estate on the front end; it would be a LOT of work for a couple of inches and those couple of inches simply aren't worth the effort. I think I'm in agreement with you; it's better to stay with a conventional bumper in the front, and maybe a low-profile winch hoop set back towards the grill to give me a protected light-mounting location.

Oh, and speaking of protected locations, I actually got some work done on my compressor relocation, just now. I mentioned some time back that I had chosen to use the ABS tray as a location for them - because, as we all know, it was just lying around and doing nothing productive with its life - so I decided to pull it out today and get it all drilled and pretty-fied and ready for the compressors to be bolted onto it. To do that, one only needs to remove the four easily-accessed 13mm bolts that affix it to the support brackets below.

Pictured: HOLY F***, THERE'S ACTUAL WORK BEING DONE.




The secondary caption, here, is "Holy f***, Greta's underhood areas need another bath"...and if you don't believe that, check out how grimy and greasy the ABS tray was when I pulled it out; look at the differences between the areas that I can reach when I scrub the engine bay and the part of the tray that I can't reach at all.

Pictured: "Ewww..."




The horridly-soiled portions on the right are where a large bundle of wires is cabled-tied down in such a way as to prohibit cleaning under them...and since I'm pretty sure that the tray has never been pulled out for any reason at all, what we're seeing here is ten years of accumulated uncoolness and dirt. I got it all cleaned off with some degreaser and a scrubbing pad, but I was honestly surprised at how resilient the buildup was; I was also surprised at what I found underneath the tray...

Pictured: I don't think that bolt is holding much.




Somehow, someone got an ABS tray mounting bolt down underneath the tray itself...and when you think about it you'll realize how difficult that is to do, because all four of the bolts that secure the tray are put in from the top. I can't even begin to figure out how this happened, but even so, the factory ineptitude really isn't the interesting part of this photo; what's more fascinating to me, personally, is how much empty space is underneath the tray. I can't quite figure out what could go in here, yet, but I'm thinking that it might be a prime location for the upcoming on-board shower's valve assembly or some other bit of non-standard equipment. I also thought about figuring out a way to place the compressors themselves in here - there's enough room - but I decided to proceed with marking out the ABS tray and getting them re-installed and working; to that end, I simply placed the compressors on top of the cleaned/degreased/sanded tray and created a rough arrangement that should easily fit back into place and be easy to plumb/wire.

Pictured: And they had BETTER fit, if they know what's good for 'em...




I could likely have spaced them futher apart, but I didn't see a reason to do so; I'm cutting and rewiring the plugs, anyway, so all I really have to do is make the four air line connections and leave enough room for the compressor pigtails to plug back into the relocated harness...and the central placement also makes for easy access to the tray bolts. Measuring and marking the holes for the rubber compressor mounts seemed like a pain, so instead of doing that I used the factory compressor bracket as a template and made a couple of quick reference marks on the tray to tell me where I needed to punch the holes.

Pictured: Semi-perfectly-centered marks...sort of.




Now, before any of the slow kids in the class get a nosebleed from pondering the issue: yes, I painted the factory bracket...mostly because I try not to miss opportunities to improve my seriously-lacking paint skillz. With that said, it's worth noting that you don't have to be 100% accurate when marking these holes; the factory rubber isolators are going to reused to mount the compressors and since they're rubber they'll tolerate a slight bit of misalignment. Still, it's good to try to get everything marked and drilled in the right location; here's a shot of the 1/4" pilot holes, before they were enlarged to fit the rubber isolators.

Pictured: If you connect the dots, you can draw an alien holding a truncheon.




Just to be entirely accurate, I should say that I first drilled 1/8" pilot holes and then punched them out to 1/4" with a conventional drill bit; after that I checked the locations of the holes against the compressors themselves and found that I wasn't off in any location by more than 1/32" or so. To enlarge the 1/4" holes to the 9/16" diameter that will be required for mounting the rubber isolators I used a step drill chucked into a drill press and set on the slowest speed; it did a fine job with a bit of cutting fluid to ease the process. I really prefer the step drill for hole-enlarging, anymore...it does a MUCH better job than a conventional bit and leaves a perfectly-round, already-chamfered hole.

Pictured: And I love me some chamfered holes.




After a quick clean-up, I did a test-fit of an isolator; it took a bit more coaxing to get into place than would be necessary with the oblong holes of the factory bracket, but once it snaps into the hole it allows about 1/16" of movement in any direction. This is why you don't have to be uber-precise when drilling the holes themselves; the isolator will move in the hole - actually, it will move a bit more than it could the factory holes, which aren't quite 9/16" in diameter - and create a perfect alignment when the compressors get bolted on. With that done I gave both the front and back of the tray a good sanding and deglossing in preparation for some paint.

Pictured: Don't act like you didn't expect me to sand and paint the underside of this.




I was going to replace the factory Stone White color, but that stuff is about $7.00 a can, now, and it doesn't have anywhere near the coverage and hardness of the Rustoleum Hammered Black that I've been using lately...so I decided to go with the latter option. It's a great paint that continues to impress me; Muppet Labs may just have to start painting all brackets and refinished parts in this stuff.

Pictured: Even though it looks like wet charcoal when first applied.




So, that's where we are at current; I've got the compressor tray - it's not an ABS tray, anymore - drying and I'll hopefully get the compressors mounted on it later today...and I might even get the tray put back into its proper place, as well. After that I'll need to look back at my reference photos and figure out how I'm going to cut and modify the wiring harness. Stay tuned.

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Unread 10-06-2013, 08:45 PM   #5620
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Tonight's Jeeping: I decided to shoot a coat of flat black onto my compressors, so I got a bit behind by way of waiting on paint to dry. Tomorrow I'll fit the isolators into the compressor tray and get all of that stuff installed, and start looking at the harness. More installation pictures will be forthcoming; I'm spending the rest of the night researching minimum wall thicknesses as they relate to retrofitted screw-in chokes.
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Unread 10-07-2013, 05:43 AM   #5621
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I used hammered black on just about everything when I started with my jeep, then I progressively moved to standard black. The coagulant agent that makes the hammer texture does not play well with other paints until it is fully and completely cured.
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Unread 10-07-2013, 11:06 AM   #5622
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Suddenly dawned on me that I have a very lovely female friend who wants me to visit me in Clarksville...when is this central tn wheeling trip? Lol. Hope you guys wouldn't mind a Chicagoan running along with ya!
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Unread 10-07-2013, 05:21 PM   #5623
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Bam!

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Unread 10-07-2013, 06:47 PM   #5624
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http://vimeo.com/m/74156302
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Unread 10-07-2013, 07:43 PM   #5625
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Suddenly dawned on me that I have a very lovely female friend who wants me to visit me in Clarksville...when is this central tn wheeling trip? Lol. Hope you guys wouldn't mind a Chicagoan running along with ya!
I don't have a firm date, yet, but it should be around the first of next month, pending that I have the caps required for gas and a place to stay. Since there's no solid list of attendees, I'm going to speak for whomsoever might be involved and say "Are you bringing beer? Yes? Alright, cool, you can come along too."

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Bam!
I'm liking that.

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Originally Posted by spyder6 View Post
Do you have any idea of how much film I could burn up trying to do something like that? If I limited myself to one roll a day, in the passage of four months - roughly 120 days - the film cost alone would be nearly $700...but it would be so worth it. Speaking of worthwhile efforts, the hammered black turned out pretty well; here's a shot of the freshly-painted tray with the rubber isolators in their new homes and one of the compressors loosely installed.

Pictured: I seriously need to get a better digital camera for pictures like this.




Obviously, the flat black on the compressors themselves turned out pretty well, too; it was a B**** to mask out the two wiring pigtails and the plastic air line nipples, but I think the cleaned-up appearance is worth it. Both of them together look pretty sweet when they're bolted into the compressor tray, and they'll blend right in to the rest of the under-hood odds and ends.

Pictured: F***! This shot is even worse!




You know what's in focus on that second shot? The forwardmost curve of the pink wire on the compressor in the foreground; THAT'S IT. Very frustrating, this; when there are more caps available a small digital is going to happen. That's going to come after a belly skid, a cable shifter and some custom shotgun work - and probably some suspension/tires for Annabelle's LJ, too - but it's going to happen. More coverage will be forthcoming, tomorrow evening; I'm going to get this stuff back in place and start working on the wiring harness, one way or another.
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