The Wasteland Survival Guide: Engineering Greta - Page 37 - JeepForum.com
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post #541 of 8099 Old 04-25-2012, 10:26 PM
Fuddmaster
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Well I just read this whole thread!! It took me all day long!! It is a good thread!! Keep up the good work!! You made me go out and get fallout 3!! The jeep is lookin good! Btw can't wait for the girls in the jeep pictures!!!

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post #542 of 8099 Old 04-25-2012, 10:42 PM
dongalonga
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Great now give me my damn tool kit write up.....slacker

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post #543 of 8099 Old 04-26-2012, 05:37 AM
G Beasley
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I can lock up my 33s with the black magic pads installed and the stoppage is quick , but alas nothing flies from my seats .

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post #544 of 8099 Old 04-26-2012, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
Sundowner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dongalonga View Post
Great now give me my damn tool kit write up.....slacker
Patience...occasionally, I actually have to be productive and WORK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G Beasley View Post
I can lock up my 33s with the black magic pads installed and the stoppage is quick , but alas nothing flies from my seats .
I kind of want to start putting various things on the front bumper and seeing how far I can launch them. Expensive way to build a catapult, though.

If it's worth doing, then it's worth overdoing.

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post #545 of 8099 Old 04-26-2012, 08:46 AM
Mallanaga
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All this Sasha Grey talk. Worthless without pics! I want to see her slammed into the seatbelt... or something along these lines...


An adaptation of this into a jeep would KILL on youtube. You're welcome, and I want 10% of the profits
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post #546 of 8099 Old 04-26-2012, 08:52 PM
dongalonga
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I WANT THINGS NOW!!

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post #547 of 8099 Old 04-26-2012, 10:27 PM
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I keep reading the comments about the pre-upgrade braking issues and thinking "he's going to scare off tons of folks from lifting their Jeeps."

I think you're spot on about the outlier comment. Something very odd was going on with your rig after the tires went on. I have no issues with my wife driving my non-ABS Rubi LJ now wearing 35s and I drive my daughter around in it without worry. I do plan on upgrading braking, but only when the current brakes need replacing. Wondering if I can manage the same braking test @45 MPH just for the sake of comparison...

Not in any way doubting your statements of course, and I'm a firm believer in upgrading braking to go with bigger tires. I just wanted to point out the apparent truth in the outlier comment for the good folks reading the thread.

Side note (see your interest in general Jeep edjumacation is rubbing off): one of the under-appreciated benefits that usually comes with upgrading to axles from a heavier vehicle is that bigger/better brakes are a part of the deal, just like you're adding to your stock axles here. That's assuming, of course, that you have the ability to push them, but a simple master cylinder swap can usually fix that.

'84 Alaskan Postal CJ-8 on 35s with a bunch of stuff
'05 LJ Rubicon with some stuff
'08 JK Unlimited with almost no stuff
'77 Cherokee with old and new stuff
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post #548 of 8099 Old 04-27-2012, 05:29 AM
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Subscribed...and I don't even have a jeep right now...
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post #549 of 8099 Old 04-27-2012, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
Sundowner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwalton View Post
I think you're spot on about the outlier comment. Something very odd was going on with your rig after the tires went on. I have no issues with my wife driving my non-ABS Rubi LJ now wearing 35s and I drive my daughter around in it without worry.
First of all: great post.

I had a couple of long talks with some people that are seriously knowledgeable about brakes...especially Jeep brakes. That was the genesis of the "outlier" comment. To further explain...

If you look on Black Magic's webpage and look at the front pads for the '03-'06 LJ/Rubicon fitments, you can find a warning about running the stock-replacement pads and rotors on the LJ if you have 35" tires, or more. Well, I knew that I was going to have a loaded-out TJ that would be likely heavier than a curb-weight LJ...so I decided to call. I had actually resolved to make do with just the stock-replacement pads/rotors/calipers at that point but I figured "Hey, they must have that warning up there for a reason," and picked up the phone anyway...and 45 minutes later I had to literally sit down, drink a beer and absorb everything I'd just gotten schooled on.

Valuable Information: If you ever want to feel uneducated, call mrblaine.

I won't bore everyone with the particulars of the discussion, but one of the major points was this: most people don't understand how marginal their brakes can get when they've increased tire size and vehicle weight so far over what the stock system was designed to handle. It makes sense when you think about it this way: you're hard-pressed to find much under a 31" tire on a TJ - at least in the off-road world that we inhabit - and since a 31" tire is already larger than stock your braking ability has already decreased below the stock levels, all other things being equal. It may not have decreased by much, but any time you add more weight and rotating mass and do not proportionately increase your braking ability, that ability will go down. It's just a mathematical, physical truth...but it's one that we often fail to notice, as we unintentionally decrease the braking ability in gradual stages: larger tires, some tools thrown in the back, a heavier bumper, a lift, even-larger tires, a roll cage, etc, etc. Time desensitizes us, but when you compare Point A to Point B - in my case 35's to the stock 29's - you can see a big difference. Thus, I'm not surprised that the stock system couldn't handle the new tires...they were just too big and heavy.

To that end: often, systems or components will be perfectly happy under stress until a certain point of failure, and that "certain point" can vary from Jeep to Jeep. If you want evidence of that fact, consider Dana 35 axles: some live happily with 35's for years and some explode the first time out no matter how gentle you are with them. This is analogous to the second point that was made in my over-the-phone crash course in brakes: not all Jeep braking systems respond equally to increased demands upon them. The reason for mrblaine's warning on the above-linked page was this: "I can't guarantee that those pads and rotors will lock up 35's 100% of the time. That's why we developed the Vanco system." Incidentally, the reason behind the development of that system was an incident highly similar to what I experienced: a severely-compromised ability to stop. Evidently, that rig was on the "Totally F****** Dismal" end of the scale as well, and upon consideration it makes logical sense that some rigs will come from the factory with a brake system that functions a bit better than others, even with larger tires and heavier weights. In any data set there must be numbers that lie on either end...and Greta just happened to lie on a particularly bad end. Some rigs will perform better than others.

I don't want to scare people away from lifting their rigs. What I do want to scare people away from doing is cheaping-out and being unsafe. So with that in mind, I'd caution everyone to be honest in their appraisals of braking ability, and remember that this is one area in which you cannot be overbuilt. It sounds like your LJ is in the "okay" end of the spectrum, and that's good: as long as you're comfortable and safe, that's really all that matters.

If it's worth doing, then it's worth overdoing.

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post #550 of 8099 Old 04-27-2012, 08:34 AM
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Wow... Great thread, you drew out another virgin, long time looker. Well done!
You have readers contributing without violating the 4 rules, give & take some ribbing without going personal.
A fantastic front shaft alignment tool.... & impact wench.... or a.... wrench, that's it
Contributions from Blackwater to the affect of acceleration on boobs to written stats on braking ..... although
the video on "effects of 12 inch disk, dual piston calipers on lovely assistant" seems to be eagerly awaited

I got a stock 06 Rubi LJ a couple years back.... added, wheels, tires, lift, bumpers, winch, built racks for travel, off road trailer
with a rooftop tent mounted on it....Love it! My Black Lab occupies the back 99% of the time, GF in front.
It is well used to explore AZ and camp, hike mountains etc. every chance we get.

Keep it up! Thanks
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post #551 of 8099 Old 04-27-2012, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundowner View Post
So with that in mind, I'd caution everyone to be honest in their appraisals of braking ability, and remember that this is one area in which you cannot be overbuilt.
Unfortunately this seems to be a very difficult thing for us jeepers to do... until we experience the negative effects in a way that scares the crap out of us. Good post and I agree 10 fold not to cheap out with anything related to safety.

In my opinion I would say not to cheap out on anything... period.


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post #552 of 8099 Old 04-27-2012, 08:57 AM
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I also lol'd at my desk here having just read that last brake update.

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00 TJ Sport - Ever evolving DD/Rig
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85 Suzuki GS700 - ugly

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats."
H. L. Mencken - US editor (1880 - 1956)

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post #553 of 8099 Old 04-27-2012, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundowner View Post
So with that in mind, I'd caution everyone to be honest in their appraisals of braking ability, and remember that this is one area in which you cannot be overbuilt. It sounds like your LJ is in the "okay" end of the spectrum, and that's good: as long as you're comfortable and safe, that's really all that matters.

If it's worth doing, then it's worth overdoing.
I mean... your signature sums it up. To that extent, how about the old clichés of "If you're going to do something, do it right," or "If you're not going to do something right, don't do it at all"? I love clichés... Adages that have survived the ages. It's for this reason that I love forums, and particularly this forum. Learning from each others mistakes, but more importantly, learning from each others successes.

/wipetearfromeye I love you guys... jk, but seriously. Thanks Sundowner, for the informative and entertaining thread.
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post #554 of 8099 Old 04-27-2012, 12:39 PM
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Relocate Locker Pumps?

Quote:
I've never understood why so many people move the locker pumps.
This is probably a reflection of individual circumstance...that is to say once you get water into the locker pump/line and risk pushing said water into your diff and locker...your perspective changes entirely!!!

Quote:
How you acquired them is immaterial, because the question is this: where might you put them, other than the stock location? There are some obvious choices, of course, but...any thoughts on the less-obvious spaces that might be used? Let's hear what you think.
During my lift install/tummy tuck last summer I took the opportunity to relocate them as well as there was NO room post-tummy tuck. Keeping them attached to the same mounting bracket, I just mounted the bracket on the underside of the hood itself along the reinforcement. Angled about a 45*, it fit nicely between the firewall and cold air intake.

Nice Build!
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post #555 of 8099 Old 04-27-2012, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
Sundowner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny1AZ View Post
Wow... Great thread, you drew out another virgin, long time looker. Well done!
You have readers contributing without violating the 4 rules, give & take some ribbing without going personal.
Oh, I'm not getting personal with it...if I was getting personal, you'd know.

I'm glad you're enjoying it. And I do appreciate all the commentary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B2CARPEN View Post
Unfortunately this seems to be a very difficult thing for us jeepers to do... until we experience the negative effects in a way that scares the crap out of us.
Unfortunately, that's often the case...and that's why I was so relentless in describing how bad the brakes really were: perhaps someone can learn from my experiences without having to endure the trouser-soiling terror of being unable to stop when you'd really, really like to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mallanaga View Post
Learning from each others mistakes, but more importantly, learning from each others successes.
Wise words, right there...

If it's worth doing, then it's worth overdoing.

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