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Unread 07-05-2012, 06:04 PM   #1666
tanksoldier
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Quote:
The best thing you can do is know where you are (GPS/Good Maps and landmarks) and the quickest way to get help to you.
As a former EMT/ firefighter I agree... except that, under the circumstances which predicate this build, ambulances and EDs probably won't exist.

Getting training is good, but most of the advanced training and the accompanying certifications are perishable skills.

There is also the triage aspect. If you're in a situation where the ambulance ISN'T coming and somebody needs advanced life support to survive they probably aren't going to recover no matter how much time and resources you put into it, and you'll probably have better uses for that time and those resources. A good first responder or EMT-B class, a copy of "Where There Are No Doctors" and "Where There Are No Dentists" and some basic equipment will let you improvise treatment well enough to handle just about anything a person can recover from on their own. Even some surgeries like an appendectomy.

You also have to worry about the law. In MANY jurisdictions you can get into serious trouble for practicing medicine without a license if you are trained AND perform any one of several advanced procedures off the clock. An EMT-P performing an emergency tracheotomy on the clock may be fine. Off the clock he may end up in jail in many places. If you get training but aren't affiliated with an EMS organization your chances to use your skills may be very limited, UNLESS the world ends... in which case you'll be out of practice. One way around that is to join a volunteer organization. Our volunteers were considered "on the clock" at the scene of any emergency, outside our district or not. The down side to THAT is what level of care your organization's policies allow you to provide. We had a medical doctor among our volunteer firefighters, but when functioning as a volunteer he was only allowed to provide the same level of care as an EMT-P, due to insurance and liability coverage.

So, to sum it up: MY advice is to get some good first responder training, outfit a med kit with the gear to handle those emergencies you'll be trained to handle, take MrB's advice and know how to get EMS to your location when it is available, and accept that in the worst case you simply won't be able to help everyone.

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Unread 07-05-2012, 06:12 PM   #1667
Sundowner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepinShep View Post
Awesome. Well done, Sundowner.
Thank you! I'm hoping this prototype turns out well!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teal97TJ View Post
Very Interesting! Have your man build two ship( I`ll pay shipping ) one to me. That way you can get twice the input on any needed adjustments.
Well, I'm certainly not averse to producing some if there is an interest, but this model is a literal prototype: we're basically fitting it to Greta as it is being built. Once it's constructed, installed and adequately tested - FUN - there may be refinements or adjustments made...and after that I might do a small pre-order based production run, providing that there was sufficient interest at the time. For now, I'd love to build two or three for other people to test, but I'm barely able to afford the one.

Incidentally, there's only one step of the process that's being farmed-out: the welded aluminum seam at the front lip, and if I had a TIG machine I'd be doing that as well. The rest of the assembly is bolted together; it's cheaper, easier and - most importantly - stronger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmj13 View Post
Do you intend it to be permanent/semi permanent? How easily removable would it be IF it needed to be removed in favor of an open bed?
It's a permanent mod. The C-pillars are literally cut in half at the height of the tub rail; a flange is then welded onto each side of the cut and the deck is sandwiched between them and through-bolted. You could take everything out if you wanted, but it would be a LONG process and you'd be left with the C-pillars being separated (unless you put a bridging spacer between them).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dongalonga View Post
Ohhhh I am very interested to see this being built.
As am I...and it's going to take a bit of time. Basically, I'm going to finish the patterning and then get the main piece of the deck cut and have the curved lip welded on. When that's done, we'll work on fitting it to Greta's rear tub rails...and that's the point when we're going to fervently pray that we measured everything correctly. After the fitment we can work on the welded flanges, and after that we can get the cargo rails and substructure lined up, drilled, and bolted in place. I expect the entire process to take several weeks, so hopefully people will get some entertainment out of it. I know the thread's been picture-deficient lately - and I do apologize for that - but maybe this will partially make up for it.

And now that I think about it, if I write one of my usual "Okay, kids, here's how we did it, step by painful step" updates, everyone will be able to build their own and they won't need me to do it at all. And here I was, thinking that this would be a profitable adventure...
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Unread 07-05-2012, 06:15 PM   #1668
tanksoldier
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Quote:
As am I...and it's going to take a bit of time.
Wow. That's like major design and fabrication stuff, at least in my book.

Really interested to see how it turns out.
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Unread 07-05-2012, 06:39 PM   #1669
dmj13
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Okay, figured permanent with the cutting but wanted to clarify. I've been thinking about this ALOT, as my Jeep is my daily driver and kayak transport- thus, sees /will see a lot of varied use. A lot of times I need the open bed (dogs, etc) and most of the time I could do with a cover and additional storage.... So my problem has been a rack that is interchangable and easily removed by a height-deprived spouse. I LOVE the tire mounting location, though.
Have you thought about splitting it in the middle and using hinges to allow the two halves to fold up or down and stow/lock out of the way if needed (obviously not carrying the tire). Would the rack maintain enough strength to carry the tire if you did that? Everything is awesome about this, but you do sacrifice the open bed. Just seems awfully useful to give it up forever....
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Unread 07-05-2012, 07:04 PM   #1670
andy02
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This design is similar to what I have been planning to do with my Jeep although my plan was much more bolt on and not near as cool as your plan. My plan consisted of a tuffy underseat drawer on tuffys six in risers. The stock spare tire mount would be bolted to the top (that may change depending on how hard it is to get the spare on and off.) I would also close off the gap underneath the tuffy box at the front. My though process was that I then had two layers of secure storage (inside the box and under the box as long as the tailgate is locked) as well as moving my spare inside the Jeep itself. I am really looking forward to what you have planned as it may change my design.
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Unread 07-05-2012, 08:34 PM   #1671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tanksoldier View Post
Wow. That's like major design and fabrication stuff, at least in my book. Really interested to see how it turns out.
I also never said that my tire carrier would be a bolt-on solution.

I wouldn't call this a true "fabrication" project since it's just a few pieces being assembled, but the design portion has been significant. I've had a lot of input from those more knowledgeable than myself, so I'm very hopeful that this is going to work as well as I've anticipated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmj13 View Post
Have you thought about splitting it in the middle and using hinges to allow the two halves to fold up or down and stow/lock out of the way if needed (obviously not carrying the tire). Would the rack maintain enough strength to carry the tire if you did that? Everything is awesome about this, but you do sacrifice the open bed. Just seems awfully useful to give it up forever....
A split was considered early in the design process but I wanted a seamless top. I can conceive of a removable design - based on some of those early considerations and a few of the aforementioned conversations, as well - but it would likely have to be pieced together in a panel-like configuration. It could work, though.

Personally, the loss of the open bed is something that I don't miss at all because I don't USE it at all; thus, having a closed top on it helps with my particular requirements. I need the weatherproof surface, the attachment for the custom top and the ability to make adjustments to my gear load-out MUCH more than I need the ability to transport something that would require an open bed. I can throw a spare on here for when I'm going cross-country or playing in the nastier parts of the Wasteland, or leave the f****** thing at home when I'm driving around town or headed out camping for a couple of days. Even when the spare is mounted I've got space for a couple of dry bags or recovery gear, and I have a nice table-like surface for those times when it seems that you can never have enough nice table-like surfaces in your vicinity. In short: by placing this hard deck cover in the rear I'm going to get a LOT more function out of the area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy02 View Post
My plan consisted of a tuffy underseat drawer on tuffys six in risers...
I think that would work, and if that's what your application requires there's no problem with it. I preferred a single hard surface and soft-sided gear containment over drawers and boxes, myself...but that's just my approach. If there's anything that people should learn from the project, it is this: go with solutions that address your particular needs. What's right for Greta won't be right for everyone else...but if you're going in a similar direction with your own Jeep build you might want to give this mod some serious thought.
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Unread 07-05-2012, 08:40 PM   #1672
GunHo198
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Don't forget to make room for one of these.

Because you can only sing to yourself for soooo long....
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Unread 07-05-2012, 09:40 PM   #1673
Kodiak17
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This upcoming project is really exciting, but whats more exciting is the other mods planned. If this much thought and ingenuity is going into this, I can't imagine how in depth and innovative these other creations will be. Bravo Sundowner, can't wait to see more!
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Unread 07-05-2012, 10:37 PM   #1674
Zjones1994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunHo198
Don't forget to make room for one of these.

Because you can only sing to yourself for soooo long....
Is there an actual write up for that
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Unread 07-05-2012, 10:44 PM   #1675
andy02
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Originally Posted by Sundowner View Post
I think that would work, and if that's what your application requires there's no problem with it. I preferred a single hard surface and soft-sided gear containment over drawers and boxes, myself...but that's just my approach. If there's anything that people should learn from the project, it is this: go with solutions that address your particular needs. What's right for Greta won't be right for everyone else...but if you're going in a similar direction with your own Jeep build you might want to give this mod some serious thought.
That is exactly why my idea works for me. I like that I can keep most of the stuff that never really gets used but you need to have in there all the time locked in the drawer. That leaves the area under the drawer and in the unused spaces around the drawer for all the other stuff. I like your idea and can't wait to see how it turns out. I'll be watching closely as there is always room for an idea to improve. Even going over my thought process, I am starting to think that having the stock spare mount bracket is a bad idea. I might decide to go with one of the pre-runner style twist handles. How to do that without killing the space in the rest of the cargo area is going to require some thinking.
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Quote:
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No one really knows the reason for LCOG Jeeps.

Its so short ****s like me and you can still get in.
Quote:
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My issue was I couldn't get the balls centered. I had to use some extra force to get everything lined up right. It didn't take me long.


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Unread 07-05-2012, 10:59 PM   #1676
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Now I need to cut the back off my xj, build an internal cage and watch your build of this aluminum carrier.
I really like the idea that it sits over the axle, allowing it to not reside in the back for bad weight distribution.
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Unread 07-05-2012, 11:42 PM   #1677
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that looks absolutely epic. something laura croft would have on her wrangler no doubt. or indiana jones. if he had a wrangler. also this medical argument seems to be split into two sides. one being you should have this this and this and be trained in and the other half being you should be able to transport and gps, flares, rescue. why not make some points so greta could be airlifted by chopper out of the bush? or maybe your surrounded by face eating zombies and your best friend flys a chopper to the rescue crazier things have happened surely. my grandfather was reading this cuz i left my laptop open. yeah an 80 year old man read through all 112 pages of this thread and thought it was awesome. and he came up with the airlift idea. should be easier then it was in nam he said lol
this deck thing is awesome your the albert einstein of jeep modding sundowner
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Unread 07-05-2012, 11:45 PM   #1678
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Can't wait to see this project finished.

Sent from the far reaches of space.
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Unread 07-06-2012, 06:26 AM   #1679
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I would think that in today's world the primary factor is how fast a medical emergency can arrive at the facility to handle the treatment required.
I agree that some "stop the bleeding and stabilize" 1st aid is required. Even in Vietnam we tried to get the wounded to a medical facility ASAP and you would be amazed at the survival rate over WWII and Korea.. The key difference was the ability to get the wounded to "REAL MEDICAL HELP FAST". The same applies today. The faster the person gets to a medical facility the better the chances of survival and recovery. The best EMT people in the world have one primary goal - STABILIZE and TRANSPORT. If the EMT is not needed the person can get to the emergency medical facility on their own. Carry a basic 1st aid kit and hope you are not out of cell phone range..
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Unread 07-06-2012, 06:55 AM   #1680
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Originally Posted by GunHo198 View Post
Don't forget to make room for one of these.

Because you can only sing to yourself for soooo long....
oh my god
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Cleaning this thing up is similar to a slightly abused pornstar throwing on a bunch of makeup to try to hide her eternal scars, but I think she doesn't look too bad
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