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Ugly Betty - TJ Magnum V8 Conversion and more

185K views 745 replies 48 participants last post by  Jason 
#1 ·
Ugly Betty - TJ Magnum V8 conversion, Auto transmission swap and more, if I survive this.

Prologue:

I have a 2005 TJ with the I6 that I built running 35s. When I bought it, I was looking for a super clean, low mile, unmolested Jeep to build on. It has D44 / HPD30 / Tummy Tucked / 4.56s and a bunch of other goodies. It functions really well for the kind of stuff we do around here, but is still comfortable enough to drive daily if necessary.


^^ As dirty as it ever gets. ^^

The problem is it's too nice for me to damage or drill a bunch of holes in. It gets stored in the winter because of the destructive salt used on the road 6 months out of the year. The 05 has some pinstripes and nicks from the trails, but I want to get on some harder trails and really push what I can build. I'm going to continue to "build" it, but the upgrades will be fairly minor at this point. Brakes, steering and the like.

So I set out to buy a cheap TJ. I want something that I don't feel bad about cutting holes in or generally abusing. Around here, it's next to impossible to find a running TJ of any year that isn't falling apart for under $5K. Most times cheap TJs in my area were plagued with cancerous rust. I researched insurance auctions, but found that to be very difficult without an inside man, public auctions had pretty big fees, and even wrecked Wranglers can go for close to retail cost. I checked out Davey's Jeeps, and the one that I found with potential sold the day after I called about it. I even found a few folks with bare frames and bodies, but once you add up the odds and ends, it gets just as expensive as buying a complete TJ. Needless to say, I spent much time searching.

I finally happened across a fairly solid 97 TJ with a 4 cylinder. It had a new factory style top, new tires, and the frame and body were mostly rust free. The carpet was long gone and interior was lined with the spray in liner. It was about 2.5 hours away. I took an afternoon off work and drove out to see it, pocket full of cash and trailer in tow.

It was located just north of Detroit. I met the guy at his shop near the corner of a busy intersection. I ended up parking in the lot next door to his place because it looked easier to get the truck + trailer in and out. The Jeep started, and drove around the parking lot without much fuss, so I handed the guy some money. I didn't want to try to turn left into the traffic, then left again to get into the parking lot where my truck and trailer were parked, and I don't know the area, so I did what any good Jeeper would do and just drove it over the curb through the grass. (It wasn't that big, but I still thought it was funny.) On to the trailer and home we went.

The paint scheme was unique, and certainly not what I would have chosen. She's got a few other minor bumps and bruises too. Since I am now a two-Jeep household again, I couldn't simply refer to either as "the Jeep" anymore. I started calling it Ugly Betty, and the name kind of stuck.


^^ Beauty, in the eye of the beholder. I guess. ^^
 
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#241 ·
The grille painting didn't go that well. Couldn't get the primer to stick / dry / seal. Started over this morning.

Buddy that I bought the Ram truck from came over last night and we replaced the final brake line and bled the rears. Now all the steel lines have been replaced.

I'm going to keep working the paint today, and research what fan I can use.
 
#243 ·
:club:

Paint is going on better today, probably because I'm not rushing it. I'm still researching the fan thing. Because the water pump isn't close enough to center, I need to run an electric. But, I need to find an electric that is thin enough to fit with the clearance I have available, ~4.25 inches.
 
#254 ·
When you say "defeat switch", do you mean a manual on/off switch?

Are you too far along to move the engine back, in order to gain more room for an electric fan? I had to do that with my V8 magnum conversion, but my engine is more old school, it just has the magnum heads. I relocated mine back because I was dead set on using a '95 Ford T-bird fan, which is the same as the vaunted Lincoln MKVIII fan, except it has a 2 speed motor instead of a variable speed motor. It's 5-1/2" deep, and I have 3/16" clearance at the water pump pulley bolts.
 
#251 ·
I would look at fan designs, the shroud is only there to channel the air, an oscillating fan has no shroud and it still pushes air, the shroud is only there to prevent the fan from taking air from the surrounding areas and only allowing air to be drawn from across the radiator, as well as a safety feature to prevent contact with the fan blade when the engine is running...the fact that it is not centered or that it sits higher or lower is a non issue. Whether you build a shroud, or modify one, whether you trim the arc at the bottom of the shroud, you will be fine. Most shrouds are not centered, most clutches do not sit in the center of the radiator either....
I think you may be over thinking this fan thing...
I also think you may be convinced you want the electric fan, but can't commit :laugh
 
#253 ·
I guess I think about failures, if you are out wheeling and your electric fan tanks, whether your motor is running or your wheels are turning, it's gonna leave you in a bad way, with a mechanical fan if your motor is running, and the wheels are turning, your engine is cooling(assuming your other cooling system components are doing their job) and a thermal fan clutch failure is almost a never happening event... When it fails, it typically seizes to always on..
This is the angle I am coming from when building my jeeps, what is gonna work and is least likely to fail... Electric motor fail rates are higher than thermal clutches
 
#256 ·
I've read (mostly in threads researching electric fan conversions) of several failures of the mechanical clutch. I think a mechanical fan trumps electric for the reasons you've said, and it's sheer simplicity. On a stock vehicle, with no cooling problems, there's no sense in replacing the mech fan. The electric has an advantage for flexibility (on / completely off / high / low) and installations where packaging doesn't allow a mech fan.

Because my water pump is off center top to bottom, the only way I can get a mech fan in there is if I build a shroud. Not sure what's different about mine from the others that have done this?
 
#258 ·
This is where forums differ from being in the garage or driveway with your buddies, so many theories and should works, and advice, but without being able to see it or put your hands on it that it sometimes just gets overwhelming with the amount of information and input we give, find, and receive..
I agree with you, although I've run v8's in every CJ, and YJ I've owned, 12 jeeps total running 304's to 401's and have run mechanical fans some with and some without shrouds and that was doing the majority of my wheeling in Moab, and Las Cruces where the summer temps are 100+ and haven't had any cooling issues, but every jeep is a one off, and you definitely are limited in every build to what fits, what you are most comfortable and feel you can rely on in the backcountry.
You are also running an auto trans, which I've never done, so your cooling demands are much higher than that of someone with a manual.
 
#259 ·
I would have preferred a manual, but the Ram donor was an auto, and I didn't want to bother with sourcing the manual, plus that would have meant extra expense and finding a manual PCM.

But I still haven't sold the clutch and brake pedals yet. :laugh:
 
#261 ·
Ok, riddle me this: Where is the deepest point of the fan in relation to the radiator. If I could spin or reposition the fan so that the deepest point (the fan motor) is on the side of the water pump pulley, it might clear. My water pump pulley is about center of the TJ 6 cyl fan shroud left to right, but way high; 8" to the top vs. 10.75" to the bottom. If I could get the fan motor under or next to the water pump pulley, that might give me enough room.
 
#262 ·
I could get you those dimensions, but they would probably be useless to you, because my engine and radiator are most likely in different locations than yours are. In addition to making my own engine mounts, I put a CJ7 front end on my YJ, which changes the whole equation. Also, I had to shift my CJ radiator over to the passenger side in order to help clear my power steering box. So, yes, we both have Wranglers with Mopar V8's, but unfortunately that's where the similarity ends, with respect to this issue.
I had to shorten one side of the T-bird fan shroud, and rotate the shroud 90º, so it would fit properly to my CJ radiator. I don't know how it would fit on a YJ radiator, but here it is after the mod. The motor is pretty much directly in the middle of the radiator.

 
#266 ·
I have a fan plan. I did some junkyard exploring today, but only had 30 minutes. I found a "Taurus" two speed fan, but it was in a Taurus equipped with a 3.0. Allegedly, the 3.8 non-SHO units were the ones with the two speed, and the others were something else. I was in a hurry, but the number cast in the shroud looked correct. Shroud was cracked, but useable. Dude at the counter was going to see if they had an intact one tomorrow. The taurus fan is offest to one side. I think I can trim the shroud, and with the offset of the fan, I can make it work. I'll use the Volvo relay control pack and wire an override. If this doesn't work, I'm going to modify the Dodge mechanical fan and build my own damn shroud out of sheet metal. I have a plan C as well, but that's top secret right now.

I also found a Dodge Ram van that has the correct transmission bracket, which is a huge score. I told them to pull that, the manual shift lever, cable, tv cable, the whole nine yards. I think with all that ****, I can get the transmission to shift. Also picking up some ZJ springs to try to prop the front end up a little.

Final coat of paint on the grille tonight, but it cracked in a few places. :thumbdown: Might have been too cold. I'm going to sand that part out and recoat tomorrow.
 
#269 ·
Fixing Broken Nuts for the Front Bumper

I've been fussing with the paint on the grille; it's the one thing I want to look nice. I can't get back to the radiator until the paint is done, so I need something to do. Unfortunately, I'm no painter. For all of the things I have the ability to do, paint is just not something I can do well/

The nuts that are welded inside the frame for mounting the front bumper often break because of corrosion locking the bolt in. There's 5 bolts total on the front of the frame; 1 on the bottom and 2 on the top to mount the bumper, 2 more on the top to mount the sway bar. The 4 nuts on each side are all welded to a thin metal strip that is then welded to the frame.

This Jeep had both pairs of the nuts broken off the top. The outer most nut can be welded on pretty easily; the second one would be pretty difficult. So I decided to remove the remaining nuts and the metal strip and make a new one.

I drilled out the two welds that were at the top of the frame, and cut the strip at the front frame opening. I needed to do a bit of chiseling to get the piece out. You can see in the photo below what was left of the metal strip and nuts, and the holes I needed to drill to remove it.



I got a piece of 1 x 1/8 steel and cut it to the correct length. I scored a line down the length of the piece in the center so I new where the center line was. I then clamped the piece inside the frame and used a center punch to locate the holes I needed to drill.



The nuts for the bumper are 1/2" and the sway bar are 3/8". I drilled pilot holes, then finished drilling the holes. I drilled them 1/16" over the size of the bolt that goes through them. I figured this would make centering the nuts on the holes easier.



I centered the nuts over the holes and clamped them on. I didn't measure, I just eyeballed it. I welded all the way around the nut. Probably overkill, but these things aren't going anywhere.



I sprayed some paint on the one side that was exposed to prevent rust. I taped the outer most nut off so that no paint would get on it since I would be welding there later.



I then slid the new metal piece into the frame, centered it up, clamped it on, and rewelded the two welds I drilled out earlier, and one bead across the front, and a what I could reach on the sides.



I sprayed a little paint on the outer most nut, and the top of the frame where I ground it off to weld. Better than new. These things will never break off. I only measured the length of my replacement strip; everything else I eyeballed. Nothing here is critical enough requiring it to be perfect and center.
 
#273 ·
Lol. Jerk.

I'm still waiting on my parts from the junk yard. Once I get that stuff, I can get the shifter squared away, lift the front end up a little bit, and figure out the cooling situation.

Since it was super warm yesterday, I removed the evap canisters from the Dodge, expecting to need them to work with the leak detection pump. Then when I went looking for the LDP, it wasn't there. (!!!) I found the plug that should go to the LDP on the truck and it was just plugged off, so I guess I'm good. I need to check the plug to see if the computer expects any of those wires to be tied together. If so, I'll just splice the plug into the wires used by the LDP.

I test fit the airbox, and I need to do something different. The Ram box isn't even close to fitting. I think I need to get a Durango set up.
 
#281 ·
Ordered what I think I need to build an exhaust. Summit Racing as a header builder kit that has pre-bent 180º, 90º and 45º sections, along with some straight pieces. It has way more than I need in the kit, but it was cheaper than trying to order only what I needed singly and having extra is better than not enough. Also go the o2 sensor bungs, some collector flanges (so I can make the downpipe removeable) 2-into-1 y-pipe and a flex pipe. Summit ships pretty fast, so it should be here tomorrow or the next day.
 
#282 ·
Jason said:
Ordered what I think I need to build an exhaust. Summit Racing as a header builder kit that has pre-bent 180º, 90º and 45º sections, along with some straight pieces. It has way more than I need in the kit, but it was cheaper than trying to order only what I needed singly and having extra is better than not enough. Also go the o2 sensor bungs, some collector flanges (so I can make the downpipe removeable) 2-into-1 y-pipe and a flex pipe. Summit ships pretty fast, so it should be here tomorrow or the next day.
Any links? I also need to make an exhaust. I used their block hugger headers and nothing is really going to work from the old exhaust.
 
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