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Ugly Betty - TJ Magnum V8 Conversion and more

185K views 745 replies 48 participants last post by  Jason 
#1 ·
Ugly Betty - TJ Magnum V8 conversion, Auto transmission swap and more, if I survive this.

Prologue:

I have a 2005 TJ with the I6 that I built running 35s. When I bought it, I was looking for a super clean, low mile, unmolested Jeep to build on. It has D44 / HPD30 / Tummy Tucked / 4.56s and a bunch of other goodies. It functions really well for the kind of stuff we do around here, but is still comfortable enough to drive daily if necessary.


^^ As dirty as it ever gets. ^^

The problem is it's too nice for me to damage or drill a bunch of holes in. It gets stored in the winter because of the destructive salt used on the road 6 months out of the year. The 05 has some pinstripes and nicks from the trails, but I want to get on some harder trails and really push what I can build. I'm going to continue to "build" it, but the upgrades will be fairly minor at this point. Brakes, steering and the like.

So I set out to buy a cheap TJ. I want something that I don't feel bad about cutting holes in or generally abusing. Around here, it's next to impossible to find a running TJ of any year that isn't falling apart for under $5K. Most times cheap TJs in my area were plagued with cancerous rust. I researched insurance auctions, but found that to be very difficult without an inside man, public auctions had pretty big fees, and even wrecked Wranglers can go for close to retail cost. I checked out Davey's Jeeps, and the one that I found with potential sold the day after I called about it. I even found a few folks with bare frames and bodies, but once you add up the odds and ends, it gets just as expensive as buying a complete TJ. Needless to say, I spent much time searching.

I finally happened across a fairly solid 97 TJ with a 4 cylinder. It had a new factory style top, new tires, and the frame and body were mostly rust free. The carpet was long gone and interior was lined with the spray in liner. It was about 2.5 hours away. I took an afternoon off work and drove out to see it, pocket full of cash and trailer in tow.

It was located just north of Detroit. I met the guy at his shop near the corner of a busy intersection. I ended up parking in the lot next door to his place because it looked easier to get the truck + trailer in and out. The Jeep started, and drove around the parking lot without much fuss, so I handed the guy some money. I didn't want to try to turn left into the traffic, then left again to get into the parking lot where my truck and trailer were parked, and I don't know the area, so I did what any good Jeeper would do and just drove it over the curb through the grass. (It wasn't that big, but I still thought it was funny.) On to the trailer and home we went.

The paint scheme was unique, and certainly not what I would have chosen. She's got a few other minor bumps and bruises too. Since I am now a two-Jeep household again, I couldn't simply refer to either as "the Jeep" anymore. I started calling it Ugly Betty, and the name kind of stuck.


^^ Beauty, in the eye of the beholder. I guess. ^^
 
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#177 ·
Adding the 46RE transmission control relay to the Jeep PDC

Transmission relay:

This update brought to you by Goose Island, "Mild Winter"



I stared tonight by addressing this transmission relay. The Jeep had no wiring related to any kind of transmission relay. I assume it's not needed for the 30RH/32RH because they are controlled hydraulically, whereas my 46RE is electric.

(Bangintin; you said earlier that the relay was part of the harness. It is integral to the harness, but is not a part of it, per se. Your statement confused me because I expected the relay to be wired and packaged separate of the PDC. The transmission control relay is in the PDC, with the other relays. Perhaps you were too busy being on vacation to clarify. :laugh:)

I pulled the relay from the old Dodge PDC for the transmission control. Once I identified the correct wires, I found an empty spot in the Jeep PDC:



I followed the wires on my new harness and reviewed the schematics to make sure I had the correct wires for the transmission control relay.

I found a unused, fused power feed for my new relay location. I used the rear defrost, an option my Jeep is not equipped with. I removed the wire from the relay socket it would normally go to and cut the end off. After testing fitment in the PDC socket, I replaced the end with a normal spade plug from my junk in the garage. I did this for each of the 4 wires I needed.



Here are the connections I made. Maybe someone will find this useful.
My code is: Relay pin # = relay post # = circuit color (junction) where it goes.

  • Pin 1 = Post #85 = A30 22PK (C130) to PCM C2 Pin 30
  • Pin 2 = Post #86 = T125 18DB (S180) to: LDP, C130, S116, PCM C3 Pin 25, Generator (-) ((This is the "Generator Source" on the PCM))
  • Pin 3 = Post #30 = BK/VT ((This was originally fuse #15 in the Jeep PDC, normally used for the rear defrost.))
  • Pin 5 = Post #87 = T16 18RD (C130) to transmission solenoid
  • Pin 4 is unused. This is post 87A and normally closed.

Note, I chose the rear defrost wire to power this circuit because it was of adequate size for my circuit. The Dodge FSM lists a 20 amp fuse feeding this relay. The defrost circuit I used for this is set up for a 30 amp fuse. I contemplated using the ABS wiring, another thing my Jeep wasn't equipped with, but that was only a 10 amp circuit.

After that, I put the relay in place. Even without the wires connected, the relay stays put, but I had to put pressure on the relay to keep it in place when connecting the wires in the back of the PDC. It took quite a bit of pressure to ensure the spade clips were seated on the blades of the relay. I took it apart a few times to make sure I knew they were seated well.



From the visible side of the PDC, it looks like it belongs there:



One downside is that I will not be able to simply pull out the relay and insert a new one if it ever needs replacing because the spade clips don't "click" and lock into the PDC socket's plastic housing. I believe there is no chance that the wires will come loose, but I will have to tear the PDC case apart if I ever need to replace the relay. If I was trying to be *perfect* I would find the correct clips and use those instead.

Feel free to applaud.
 
#178 ·
I applaud you!

I guess I meant that the wiring was all in the dodge harness, the relay was in the dodge PDC, and that fitting it into the jeep pdc wouldn't be too tough... Glad to hear you got it fingered out :)
Yes, I am at Disney while I type this, and while I am away from the jeep, I'm still rooting for all of you in your projects, as I hope you'll all be there when I get back to mine next week, I believe it's under 2 full feet of snow now.
 
#184 ·
I got most of this junk plugged in on the Jeep. Everything looks to be in order. I'm going to do a once over on the pin outs and splices just to double check everything. Goal is to get the dash to light up tonight. I have to get the alternator, battery and starter wired up before that happens.

After that, goal is to get the engine to start. Might be a few days before that because there's a long list of stuff needed before I can make it fire.
 
#186 ·
Yep, it's moving along. You can come help whenever you want.

I would say that the wiring is the one task that has probably taken the most time. It's not hard, it's tedious. You have to understand what all these wires are doing. Others have said it, but it's true; getting started is the hardest part. There are two huge piles of wires that you stare at, deciding where to begin.

Of course, I have no idea if any of this is going to work because I haven't started it yet. Ask me again then. :laugh:
 
#187 ·
10 second video of the dash lighting up when I hit the key. Fuel level reads, volts read. Everything I would expect to light up does.

I smelled fuel, then heard a pop, so I cut it off, Got out and smelled HEAVY fuel and seen it on the top of the front axle. Disconnected the battery to investigate. I forgot to hook up the fuel line from the pump to the engine, so it was just squirting fuel all over everything. I guess the fuel pump is working.

http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf
 
#188 ·
And here's something curious: That video clearly shows the miles at 155656. I took a picture before I tore everything apart so I knew what came on during the bulb test, and the miles showed 155657, one more mile. It's really of no consequence, just a curiosity. I don't think I've moved it at all since the original pic.
 
#189 ·
I plugged my code scanner in to see if I could "communicate" with the computer, and it pulled up 2 codes. Evap something or another (makes sense since it's not plugged in) and coolant temp sensor. Turns out I broke the coolant temp sensor. I ordered a new one today, along with a few other odds and ends. Should be here tomorrow.

Now the goal is to make it run. I need to plumb the transmission lines to the radiator and aux cooler, plumb the power steering lines and aux cooler, plumb the radiator and heater core lines, hook up the vacuum lines, repair the PCV tube, repair the distrib cap, and paint then install the headers. I think I should be able to at least start it after all that is done, and troubleshoot whatever I screwed up.
 
#190 ·
I modified the transmission cooler lines to fit my setup. The Dodge originally had everything routed to the passenger side. So both lines from the transmission connected to the radiator and aux cooler here.


My new radiator has connections on the bottom, one on each side. So I had to shorten one of the Dodge lines so it would mate up on the driver side. I also figured out how to mount the aux cooler behind the Jeep grill.


Then I re-bent the cooler lines so it would fit behind the Jeep grille and mate up to the new radiator.


Everything should be pretty good. One line might need to be shortened a tad.

I also painted my headers a satin silver. They are currently baking in the oven.
 
#191 ·
I noticed a few things last night while working with the radiator. I extensively updated my running list of issues on the first page of the build thread. There are many other to-dos that are not directly related to the goal of swapping the engine, so I've omitted them from the list.

First, for what everyone has said about the quality of this radiator, I'm a bit disappointed. It took close to five weeks to get it. Three weeks was the estimated time, and that conversation made me believe that 3 weeks was the absolute longest time it would take. (Two holidays passed between my order and receipt of the radiator, which may have played a part, but I never did get the tracking information I was told twice that I would receive.) The inlet tube isn't round, looks a little oval, like it was dinged. The draincock was bent too. I was concerned it would break when I bent it straight. Probably didn't happen in shipment because it was packed well. Some of the included fittings are VERY rusty. Keep in mind, I live in Michigan, so I'm used to seeing rusty metal, but these fittings look like they were picked out of a scrap yard. There was also no radiator cap. I don't know if one is supposed to be included, but there wasn't one. I'm sure I can find one, but it's more hassle finding one that will fit and work correctly.

The cooling fan doesn't look like it will clear the upper radiator hose. It looks like it's too big, and too close to the radiator to get a bend on the hose so it will clear. I've heard others have used a ZJ fan, but some part numbers look to work for the ZJ and the Ram. So I don't know if the ZJ fan is any different than the Ram. I may have to go with an electric, but they sure are expensive. I think I like the idea of having a off-on-auto switch for the fan, which you can't do with a mechanical one. Also, I may add a small fan to the aux tranny cooler which can be on the same switch.

The Jeep throttle cable doesn't work with the Ram engine. It's too long. Basically when the pedal is floored with the cable hooked up, the throttle body doesn't even open. I'm going to see if I can adapt the Ram throttle cable to the Jeep pedal.

The upper control arms contact the engine mounts under flex. There's about 1 1/8" of travel. Probably a combination of the 4 cylinder springs lower rate and they are probably pretty tired at this point. I noted about 5/8" drop in ride height when measured at the cowl with the V8 vs. the I4. I'm going to try the ZJ springs and add some bumpstop until I can do some real suspension work.
 
#193 ·
Yeah, I know. It's getting closer.

I'm going to have to starting thinking about the transmission shifter again soon. I just called my local yard to see if I can get some of this stuff I need, and they told me to just come out there and root around in the yard, so I might do that later this week.
 
#194 ·
Made huge progress today. Today I got the power steering lines figured out and installed the headers. (No aux cooler for now; will address that later.) I also did the maintenance stuff required to make it run. Changed the oil, transmission fluid and filter, distributor cap and rotor, heater hoses. Basically the **** I broke or needed replacing anyways.

I hooked up the battery and turned the key to start. Dash lit up. Then.... nothing. I didn't even look at a wiring diagram, wasn't sure if it would work, but I jumpered the clutch switch wire and turned the key, and it fired up.

Ugly Betty runs.

There's no coolant, and the radiator hoses don't work with my radiator, but I ran it for maybe 30 seconds total. All the gauges work, tach and oil pressure read good. (I was too damn excited the first time it started to even think to look.) Once it got running for a sec, it idled down real well. It sounds mean with just the headers.

I can't even tell you how stoked I am right now. :2thumbsup:
 
#204 ·
I updated my to-do list in post #9. I think the most pressing thing at the moment is getting the radiator hoses figured out. The molded hoses from the Dodge won't work without kinking. I could put an elbow in each one to make it work, but I don't know if such a thing is available, I've never seen one. I'd rather it not look cobbled together under the hood, so I'd like to find a hose that would work.

After that, I have some maintenance stuff to do. I still have to fix the brake lines as well as address the brake pedal and switch. I think I'm going to take the grille back apart and paint it before it goes to it's final home.
 
#207 ·
I think I have the upper radiator hose figured out. Still working on the lower. I'm going to take some measurements and wonder around the parts store rack and see if I can make something work.

I'm not sure an electric fan is going to work. I have been looking at the Taurus fan. I like the idea of having the low speed thermostatically controlled, and a separate switch for high speed and completely off. I find conflicting reports on the depth of the fan. I have 4.25" between the radiator and the water pump pulley, and I don't think that's enough. I've read where others have used a ZJ 5.9 mechanical fan and the TJ 4.0 shroud. I have the Dodge 5.9 fan, and I can't tell if the ZJ fan is any different. My Dodge fan looked like it would interfere with the upper hose. I might take the fan shroud off my 2005 and see how it first with the Dodge fan on the V8.
 
#208 ·
Jason said:
I think I have the upper radiator hose figured out. Still working on the lower. I'm going to take some measurements and wonder around the parts store rack and see if I can make something work.

I'm not sure an electric fan is going to work. I have been looking at the Taurus fan. I like the idea of having the low speed thermostatically controlled, and a separate switch for high speed and completely off. I find conflicting reports on the depth of the fan. I have 4.25" between the radiator and the water pump pulley, and I don't think that's enough. I've read where others have used a ZJ 5.9 mechanical fan and the TJ 4.0 shroud. I have the Dodge 5.9 fan, and I can't tell if the ZJ fan is any different. My Dodge fan looked like it would interfere with the upper hose. I might take the fan shroud off my 2005 and see how it first with the Dodge fan on the V8.
I could be wrong but didn't all 9er zj's come with an electric fan?
 
#211 ·
Jason said:
I opened up a 98 ZJ FSM and it shows an electric fan on the 5.9 and a mech on the other two engines, but it also show a viscous fan drive (mechanical) for 5.2 and 5.9 engines. So there was an electric one on at least some of them.

The parts jockey at the big box store showed an electric on both the 5.2 and 5.9. :rolleyes:
Weird. Just looked it up on rock auto and their replacement fan is an electric.
 
#212 ·
98 and earlier Grands used a mechanical 5(?) blade fan, this is the fan I used, it has a smaller clutch compared to the Durango clutch, I can get you a measurement in the morning, I'm into mine under $20 from eBay (won it for a penny and like $19 for shipping) I got my tj 4.0 shroud from eBay as well, brand new under $60 to my door. Using the stock TJ shroud has allowed others I've heard be able to retain oem overflow bottle, just got home from Florida and will be resuming my own swap, once I rescue the jeep from under 2 feet of snow in the morning I will be able to get some fan measurements and maybe a picture
 
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