Ugly Betty - TJ Magnum V8 Conversion and more - Page 3 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > General Jeep Forums > Jeep Builds > Ugly Betty - TJ Magnum V8 Conversion and more

Engo LED Flush Mount Lights *PAIR* Flood or Spot 1,600 LumYukon Ultimate 35 axle kit for c/clip axles with Yukon ZipRockridge 4WD IS Taking Zone Offroad Suspension Lift Kits

Reply
Unread 11-28-2012, 12:23 PM   #31
Jason
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Eaton Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 6,417
As it turns out, there's no freaking way in hell that the exhaust downpipe will clear the motor mounts. So I hacked it off and it came out smooth as butta.

Jason is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-28-2012, 02:20 PM   #32
Jason
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Eaton Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 6,417
T-case talk:

(Later edited after taking the two cases apart. Edits in italics.)

Jeep, being a 4 cylinder, is a ax-5 tranny with a 21 spline input NP231J t-case.
Ram, being a 360, is a 46RE auto with a 23 spine input NP231D t-case.

Shift patterns are also different. Front to back:
Jeep --- Ram
2H ----- 4L
4H ----- N
N ------ 2H
4L ----- 4H

I need to either change the input gear on the Jeep 231, or use the Ram 231 somehow. Using the Ram t-case would give me a different shifting pattern than what is printed on the console. (Not a big deal, but it might make my OCD act up.) I'd also have to figure out the linkage. I believe they are the same, but don't know for sure. (Edit: The linkages are different, and the shift lever attached to the t-case is opposite on the two cases; Jeep points down, Dodge points up. See pics at the bottom.) There are also vacuum fittings that likely control the front axle disconnect that the Jeep doesn't have, and there doesn't appear to be a switch for the 4WD light on the Ram case. (Edit: After tearing the the Dodge case apart, the vacuum actuator is in the same spot as the Jeep's electical 4WD indicator switch. I believe that the Vacuum switch on the Dodge case controls the front axle disconnect and 4WD light on the dash and has no real function inside the case. Pics added at the bottom for reference.)

I toyed around with the idea of using the Ram tcase with a Jeep 231 SYE (confirmed with Advance Adapters that it would fit). I think there are some subtle internal differences in the cases, and I'll compare the two when I get the Jeep disassembled. This would also allow me to use the Jeep speed sensor, as the Ram appears to be on the rear diff. (Edit: I had to also transfer the input shaft bearing from the Dodge case into the Jeep case, along with the input gears. This is covered in a write-up here.)

Another option would be splitting the two cases and trying to use the front half of the Ram case, and the rear of the Jeep. Again, get the Jeep speedo sensor back.

The third option is to obtain a 23 spline input gear and use the Jeep case. I believe I can take the Ram input gear and use it on the Jeep t-case, but we'll see.

Now, all of that musing is simply educational. Because I cracked the front of the Ram case while trying to remove it, I have to go with door number 3.


^^^ Crap ^^^


^^^ Dodge NP231D with vacuum switch and shift lever pointing up ^^^


^^^ Jeep NP231J with electric switch and shift lever pointing down ^^^
Jason is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-28-2012, 08:03 PM   #33
--chris--
Registered User
2001 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,140
Is that from a blunt instrument?

I see you found that guy in TJ tech working on the ford eco boost swap...hope it works out for him, that would be a *****in swap.

Whats on deck for tomorrow?
--chris-- is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-28-2012, 08:26 PM   #34
Jason
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Eaton Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 6,417
Yeah, my 8 lb.

I fussed with it for two hours. Tugged, pulled, tried lifting with the jack, nothing. I tried smacking it with a wood block but that didn't work. I tapped it in the spot pictured above and it cracked. I didn't even hit it that hard and it cracked. I ended up wailing on the front yoke pretty hard until it finally broke free. One of the cavities was packed with mud and corrosion.
Jason is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-28-2012, 08:43 PM   #35
Jason
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Eaton Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 6,417
Oh yeah, tomorrow. I'm going to separate the transmission from the engine, hopefully without breaking anything. Need to address the freeze plugs, then I'm putting it back together and setting them aside. I have the wiring harness laid out, so I'm going to start figuring that out next.
Jason is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-29-2012, 06:31 AM   #36
--chris--
Registered User
2001 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,140
Yeah buddy! Time for wiring...did you ever figure out tht question you had the other day with which harness to make the base harness?
--chris-- is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-29-2012, 07:08 AM   #37
Jason
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Eaton Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 6,417
I think so.

Many of the other writeups I've seen that discuss wiring this kind of swap suggest using the Jeep wiring harness on the Dodge enigine, and splicing the Dodge sensors into the Jeep wiring, then plugging that into the Dodge PCM. I don't understand why they just don't use the Dodge wiring, plug that into the PCM, and marry the non-engine stuff (lights, gauges, etc.) to the Dodge harness.

I think I'm starting to see the light now. The 3 32-pin plugs that go to the computer are all bundled up with the engine wiring harness. This also includes the main harness for the underhood fuse panel. So if I wanted to use the Dodge harness, I would need the Dodge underhood fuse panel, or rewire it all to plug in to the Jeep fuse panel. I think that it is actually simpler to use the Jeep harness because it's already 3/4s done, where using the Ram harness means I'd have to touch everything.
Jason is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-29-2012, 07:38 AM   #38
--chris--
Registered User
2001 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
I think so.

Many of the other writeups I've seen that discuss wiring this kind of swap suggest using the Jeep wiring harness on the Dodge enigine, and splicing the Dodge sensors into the Jeep wiring, then plugging that into the Dodge PCM. I don't understand why they just don't use the Dodge wiring, plug that into the (dodge?) PCM, and marry the non-engine stuff (lights, gauges, etc.) to the Dodge harness.

I think I'm starting to see the light now. The 3 32-pin plugs that go to the computer are all bundled up with the engine wiring harness. This also includes the main harness for the underhood fuse panel. So if I wanted to use the Dodge harness, I would need the Dodge underhood fuse panel, or rewire it all to plug in to the Jeep fuse panel. I think that it is actually simpler to use the Jeep harness because it's already 3/4s done, where using the Ram harness means I'd have to touch everything.
One question in red above.

I can understand that explanation now. The jeep harness is already tied into the jeep (fuse panel, grounds etc...) where as if you use the dodge harness you would either have to swap the dodge fuse panel over or rewire the whole dodge harness into the jeep fuse panel?
--chris-- is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-29-2012, 07:51 AM   #39
Jason
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Eaton Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 6,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by --chris-- View Post
One question in red above.
Your clarification is correct. No matter what wires are running it, the Dodge PCM must be used to run the engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by --chris-- View Post
I can understand that explanation now. The jeep harness is already tied into the jeep (fuse panel, grounds etc...) where as if you use the dodge harness you would either have to swap the dodge fuse panel over or rewire the whole dodge harness into the jeep fuse panel?
Yep. I'm still going to look at both harnesses side by side once I have them out and attempt to do whatever looks easier.
Jason is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-29-2012, 10:40 AM   #40
Jason
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Eaton Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 6,417
The transmission was giving me the same fits coming apart that the transfer case was.


^^^ Eventual success, no damage done ^^^
Jason is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-29-2012, 07:24 PM   #41
Jason
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Eaton Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 6,417
Fairly productive, but otherwise uneventful day today. I got the freeze plugs installed, the larger of the two was the obvious culprit. There was some sludgy crap in the block. I cleaned out as much as I could. I mated the transmission back to the engine and bolted all the pieces back together. Somehow I broke the distributor cap removing the engine, so that needs replacement. Also, the rear most bolt on the intake mainfold is broken (I didn't do that). I think this engine has been apart before. The valve cover bolts were also loose, not even finger tight. I snugged them down. It's now stored in the corner and Betty is in the garage awaiting the impending surgery.

Was very much considering rebuilding the engine because it was out, but instead I'm sticking with the plan of getting it installed and running first. Maybe next winter.....

Wire harness comes out of the Jeep tomorrow. Then fun with schematics.


^^^ All smiles here. ^^^
__________________
"Ugly Betty" Build - 97 TJ 5.9 Magnum / 46RE Swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashland82391 View Post
We're men! We don't need no stinkin directions!
Jason is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-30-2012, 12:08 PM   #42
--chris--
Registered User
2001 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,140
Nice touch

How's that harness looking?
--chris-- is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-30-2012, 12:38 PM   #43
Jason
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Eaton Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 6,417
It looks like it's on the floor.

I haven't done much today, yet. I had to go to town and get supplies and wash the DD. I had some other responsibilities that I've been neglecting lately that needed a little attention. I'm getting the Jeep harness labeled right now and on its way out.

__________________
"Ugly Betty" Build - 97 TJ 5.9 Magnum / 46RE Swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashland82391 View Post
We're men! We don't need no stinkin directions!
Jason is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-30-2012, 02:31 PM   #44
JEEP_Nut1218
Registered User
1990 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Houghton, Michigan
Posts: 799
Very nice thread. I'm looking forward to seeing more progress, goodluck!
__________________
'90 YJ with some stuff
[URL="http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/1990-yj-iriwn-1151195/"]Build[/URL]
I'm a pic whore, get over it.
JEEP_Nut1218 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-30-2012, 04:33 PM   #45
Jason
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Eaton Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 6,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEEP_Nut1218 View Post
Very nice thread. I'm looking forward to seeing more progress, goodluck!
Thanks Dean. I've wanted a V8 TJ for a long time.

I got most of the wiring out of the TJ. Still need to free up whatever is in/around the transmission.

Other Observations:
There were quite a few (6, I think) plugs that were not plugged into anything under the hood. I didn't find any empty harnesses, so I'm not sure where they go.

I had a little difficulty removing the shift lever for the transmission. I found a write up that indicates there's a spring loaded lock ring that you push down and twist to remove the shift lever. Sounds easy enough. Well I couldn't seem to get a tool in there to push down and twist at the same time, only one or the other. So I referred to the FSM that suggests you should push down and twist with finger pressure to remove the lock ring. At this point I'll give anything a shot. Using my fingers, I had it out in about 8 seconds. Unbelievable.


^^^ I'll be damned ^^^
__________________
"Ugly Betty" Build - 97 TJ 5.9 Magnum / 46RE Swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashland82391 View Post
We're men! We don't need no stinkin directions!
Jason is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Tags
magnum , ugly betty , v8 conversion

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools






Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.