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Unread 01-06-2013, 03:01 PM   #256
Jason
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I've read (mostly in threads researching electric fan conversions) of several failures of the mechanical clutch. I think a mechanical fan trumps electric for the reasons you've said, and it's sheer simplicity. On a stock vehicle, with no cooling problems, there's no sense in replacing the mech fan. The electric has an advantage for flexibility (on / completely off / high / low) and installations where packaging doesn't allow a mech fan.

Because my water pump is off center top to bottom, the only way I can get a mech fan in there is if I build a shroud. Not sure what's different about mine from the others that have done this?

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Unread 01-06-2013, 03:12 PM   #257
Jason
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Originally Posted by Copperhead89 View Post
When you say "defeat switch", do you mean a manual on/off switch?

Are you too far along to move the engine back, in order to gain more room for an electric fan? I had to do that with my V8 magnum conversion, but my engine is more old school, it just has the magnum heads. I relocated mine back because I was dead set on using a '95 Ford T-bird fan, which is the same as the vaunted Lincoln MKVIII fan, except it has a 2 speed motor instead of a variable speed motor. It's 5-1/2" deep, and I have 3/16" clearance at the water pump pulley bolts.
Yes, a manual on/off switch. What I had in mind was an on/off/on switch where the "off" position was "auto," and the fan's low speed would be triggered by an thermostatic switch. One "on" position would be a defeat, shutting the fan off completely. (Water crossings? Whatever.) The other "on" position would be full-time high speed when additional cooling would be necessary (crawling, traffic, etc.). I also have an aux cooler for the tranny. I could trigger a small fan at the same time as the manual high speed setting.

The accounts that I can find put the fan at 5.5-6 inches deep. I think the Taurus/Sable/Mark VII are all the same animal for the most part. There's even a Volvo unit that's said to be a little thinner. I have 4.25 inches to play with. I don't want one of those aftermarket cage fans; I want some kind of shroud. How much could I trim from that shroud?

Its too late to move the engine back without some significant hassles. I used Advance Adapter's engine mounts and mounted them in the correct location. This put the t-case near the factory position.

Maybe I'll push the t-case up and see if that changes my angle. When I tucked my 2005, I had to move the fan shroud down because the front of the engine pitched down when I pushed the rear up.
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Unread 01-06-2013, 03:20 PM   #258
bangintin
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This is where forums differ from being in the garage or driveway with your buddies, so many theories and should works, and advice, but without being able to see it or put your hands on it that it sometimes just gets overwhelming with the amount of information and input we give, find, and receive..
I agree with you, although I've run v8's in every CJ, and YJ I've owned, 12 jeeps total running 304's to 401's and have run mechanical fans some with and some without shrouds and that was doing the majority of my wheeling in Moab, and Las Cruces where the summer temps are 100+ and haven't had any cooling issues, but every jeep is a one off, and you definitely are limited in every build to what fits, what you are most comfortable and feel you can rely on in the backcountry.
You are also running an auto trans, which I've never done, so your cooling demands are much higher than that of someone with a manual.
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Unread 01-06-2013, 03:26 PM   #259
Jason
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I would have preferred a manual, but the Ram donor was an auto, and I didn't want to bother with sourcing the manual, plus that would have meant extra expense and finding a manual PCM.

But I still haven't sold the clutch and brake pedals yet.
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Unread 01-06-2013, 04:00 PM   #260
Copperhead89
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The accounts that I can find put the fan at 5.5-6 inches deep. I think the Taurus/Sable/Mark VII are all the same animal for the most part. There's even a Volvo unit that's said to be a little thinner. I have 4.25 inches to play with. I don't want one of those aftermarket cage fans; I want some kind of shroud. How much could I trim from that shroud?
With the T-bird fan, you can trim up to 1" off of the shroud, max.
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Unread 01-06-2013, 04:06 PM   #261
Jason
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Ok, riddle me this: Where is the deepest point of the fan in relation to the radiator. If I could spin or reposition the fan so that the deepest point (the fan motor) is on the side of the water pump pulley, it might clear. My water pump pulley is about center of the TJ 6 cyl fan shroud left to right, but way high; 8" to the top vs. 10.75" to the bottom. If I could get the fan motor under or next to the water pump pulley, that might give me enough room.
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Unread 01-06-2013, 06:08 PM   #262
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Ok, riddle me this: Where is the deepest point of the fan in relation to the radiator. If I could spin or reposition the fan so that the deepest point (the fan motor) is on the side of the water pump pulley, it might clear. My water pump pulley is about center of the TJ 6 cyl fan shroud left to right, but way high; 8" to the top vs. 10.75" to the bottom. If I could get the fan motor under or next to the water pump pulley, that might give me enough room.
I could get you those dimensions, but they would probably be useless to you, because my engine and radiator are most likely in different locations than yours are. In addition to making my own engine mounts, I put a CJ7 front end on my YJ, which changes the whole equation. Also, I had to shift my CJ radiator over to the passenger side in order to help clear my power steering box. So, yes, we both have Wranglers with Mopar V8's, but unfortunately that's where the similarity ends, with respect to this issue.
I had to shorten one side of the T-bird fan shroud, and rotate the shroud 90, so it would fit properly to my CJ radiator. I don't know how it would fit on a YJ radiator, but here it is after the mod. The motor is pretty much directly in the middle of the radiator.

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Unread 01-06-2013, 06:14 PM   #263
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Mine's a TJ, and that fan looks nothing like the Taurus ones I've seen.
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Unread 01-06-2013, 09:32 PM   #264
Copperhead89
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Mine's a TJ, and that fan looks nothing like the Taurus ones I've seen.
Sorry I got your Jeep model wrong. I fixed my last post.
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Unread 01-07-2013, 06:50 AM   #265
Jason
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That fan does look real good on that CJ radiator though. Almost a perfect fit.
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Unread 01-07-2013, 05:15 PM   #266
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I have a fan plan. I did some junkyard exploring today, but only had 30 minutes. I found a "Taurus" two speed fan, but it was in a Taurus equipped with a 3.0. Allegedly, the 3.8 non-SHO units were the ones with the two speed, and the others were something else. I was in a hurry, but the number cast in the shroud looked correct. Shroud was cracked, but useable. Dude at the counter was going to see if they had an intact one tomorrow. The taurus fan is offest to one side. I think I can trim the shroud, and with the offset of the fan, I can make it work. I'll use the Volvo relay control pack and wire an override. If this doesn't work, I'm going to modify the Dodge mechanical fan and build my own damn shroud out of sheet metal. I have a plan C as well, but that's top secret right now.

I also found a Dodge Ram van that has the correct transmission bracket, which is a huge score. I told them to pull that, the manual shift lever, cable, tv cable, the whole nine yards. I think with all that ****, I can get the transmission to shift. Also picking up some ZJ springs to try to prop the front end up a little.

Final coat of paint on the grille tonight, but it cracked in a few places. Might have been too cold. I'm going to sand that part out and recoat tomorrow.
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Unread 01-07-2013, 07:31 PM   #267
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I have a plan C as well, but that's top secret right now.
You and your ****in secrets
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Unread 01-07-2013, 09:06 PM   #268
Jason
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You and your ****in secrets
Lol. It's a good one too. (Well I think it is anyways.) It may get bumped to plan B.
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Unread 01-09-2013, 12:05 PM   #269
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Fixing Broken Nuts for the Front Bumper

I've been fussing with the paint on the grille; it's the one thing I want to look nice. I can't get back to the radiator until the paint is done, so I need something to do. Unfortunately, I'm no painter. For all of the things I have the ability to do, paint is just not something I can do well/

The nuts that are welded inside the frame for mounting the front bumper often break because of corrosion locking the bolt in. There's 5 bolts total on the front of the frame; 1 on the bottom and 2 on the top to mount the bumper, 2 more on the top to mount the sway bar. The 4 nuts on each side are all welded to a thin metal strip that is then welded to the frame.

This Jeep had both pairs of the nuts broken off the top. The outer most nut can be welded on pretty easily; the second one would be pretty difficult. So I decided to remove the remaining nuts and the metal strip and make a new one.

I drilled out the two welds that were at the top of the frame, and cut the strip at the front frame opening. I needed to do a bit of chiseling to get the piece out. You can see in the photo below what was left of the metal strip and nuts, and the holes I needed to drill to remove it.



I got a piece of 1 x 1/8 steel and cut it to the correct length. I scored a line down the length of the piece in the center so I new where the center line was. I then clamped the piece inside the frame and used a center punch to locate the holes I needed to drill.



The nuts for the bumper are 1/2" and the sway bar are 3/8". I drilled pilot holes, then finished drilling the holes. I drilled them 1/16" over the size of the bolt that goes through them. I figured this would make centering the nuts on the holes easier.



I centered the nuts over the holes and clamped them on. I didn't measure, I just eyeballed it. I welded all the way around the nut. Probably overkill, but these things aren't going anywhere.



I sprayed some paint on the one side that was exposed to prevent rust. I taped the outer most nut off so that no paint would get on it since I would be welding there later.



I then slid the new metal piece into the frame, centered it up, clamped it on, and rewelded the two welds I drilled out earlier, and one bead across the front, and a what I could reach on the sides.



I sprayed a little paint on the outer most nut, and the top of the frame where I ground it off to weld. Better than new. These things will never break off. I only measured the length of my replacement strip; everything else I eyeballed. Nothing here is critical enough requiring it to be perfect and center.
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Unread 01-09-2013, 01:05 PM   #270
greenmachine99
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Nice work!
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