TONS, CLOAKS, And a Little bit of SMOKE - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > General Jeep Forums > Jeep Builds > TONS, CLOAKS, And a Little bit of SMOKE

Free shipping on Rugged Ridge XHD bumpersBaseline 4x4 Lifetime Warranty 4340 Chromoly Axle Shaft KiIntroducing MONSTALINER™ UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed Line

Reply
Unread 02-07-2015, 08:24 PM   #1
ThomasYJ
Registered User
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: , All over
Posts: 665
TONS, CLOAKS, And a Little bit of SMOKE

Gentleman, the time is now.

I've lurked and learned on here for a number of years and it's time to make some considerable changes to the J. The idea, is to build a tank. And by a tank, I mean an overbuilt and armored behemoth that will laugh at whatever I throw at it. So I've come here to log the progress, as well as provide and obtain some answers while I'm at it. So jock up and strap in. Let's do this.

I've got a '91 60 and a '96 10.25 w/ discs in various stages of dis-assembly in my garage, pics of that later. I know, I should have looked for a 79. I did and was unsuccessful. Plus I'm thinking with the offset Diff I may actually benefit. More on that later as well.

I was hoping to have the axles stripped, rebuilt and installed before the end of the month but I'm afraid that may not happen. Most likely because I don't know how to weld, Sucks to suck, I know. Plus it seems as there's no fab shops nearby in the western panhandle. But I may have a lead or two so we shall see.

This build will be conducted in roughly 3 stages.
STAGE 1: Mobility
-Outboard front (and possibly rear) springs and shocks
-SOA- Either RE 1.5 Springs or Waggy's for a stretch.
-HIGH STEER
-Repair/ Refurb axles and install
-M.O.R.E. Track Bar
-Establish Drivelines
-TIRES: 37x13.5x17 Toyo MT
-WHEELS: 17x9 Steelies w/ 2.5" BS (questions to follow)
-LOCKER: OX F/R


STAGE 2: Up-Armor and Recovery
-FRONT: Arched Tube Cloaks
-REAR: PS corners & GenRight Extreme Flares
-SLIDERS: TBD
-BUMPER: TBD
-WINCH: 9500lb w/ syn line
-OBA: A/C Compressor, ~2.5G tank and req'd fittings
-ACC: Taurus Fan, CB/PA, Gauges/Dash, 6x9 Driving Lights

STAGE 3: Power
-ENGINE: P-Pump 4BT
--MODS: I/C, Injectors, Fuel Pin, Snorkel w/ Windstar intake
-TRANS: NV4500

BACK STORY:

Bought my Jeep in, I wanna say september of 08. Found it on CL from a fairly well off couple in TX who intended to use it as a "beach toy" but found it didn't have the space they wanted after loading it up with their stuff, so it sat in the garage. Bone stock except for some worn 31's and a front bumper put on by a PO.





That's how it sat at my dad's for a time while I went over to the sandbox. Got back and threw some money at it. Please excuse the super HUA haircut. I didn't know better at the time. RE 4.5, AA SYE, PC MX-6 shocks and some 31x10.5 Pro Comp Xtreme Terrains. (I figured they were a good all around performer since it would mostly be seeing street use at the time... I was Wrong)


That's how it stayed for quite a while. Then life happened. Got married, got out end of 2010, then.. got divorced lol.

After installing and then removing the wife-mod, I was able to throw a little more money at it. Blew up the stock 35 and swapped in one out of '88 for expediency's sake. Which I have to say is Suprisingly Heavy as F###!! The stock one I was able to carry across my driveway no problem. The older one was a bear even with my dad and I on each end.


Second day of 2013 I told civilian life to kick rocks. It sat in a storage unit all buttoned up for about two years while I was otherwise occupied.



Now that you're all caught up, I don't think I've missed anything SUPER important, so let's get on with it. I found the Sterling first. Loaded into my Expo and shlupped it home. Took me and 2 other dudes to drag it out.



The Pig
It had been sitting for a bit, definitely needs some cleaning... On the up side, the grease infused dirt serves as a pretty decent protectant.. sort of.






Comparison of the new beef


Cloaks on standby




Took me a while to figure how all this **** came apart. But eventually I started making some progress. Got the pig and the Sterling broken down for the most part. Suffice it to say the 10.25's got some issues that need to be addressed.

Took this right before I pulled the shafts.. BEEFY


QUESTION: How the F#$% Do you get the Knuckles off..... I read on ParkerM's build about taking the lower Kingpins out. But how?


Now, onto my problem child. Evidently, this axle has been like the village bicycle. Remnants of different perches adorn this lovely chunk of metal. AND apparently one or more of its former owners.. went full retard.

Problem 1: Burned small holes through the tube. I know they go through because gear oil was seeping out of them.
Potential problem 2: Some cat went ham with God knows what and dug pretty well into the tube.

Proposed Solution: I was told on here, I think, to just burn in the holes and gaps until its sealed up and then grind down the excess until its flush(-ish).
Can anyone Confirm or contradict that?



__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
If you can't be safe be deadly.
We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore, Excellence isn't an act but a habit.
ThomasYJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-07-2015, 08:28 PM   #2
ThomasYJ
Registered User
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: , All over
Posts: 665
For the discs in the rear I remember reading they supposed to be off an 87 GM 3/4 ton pick up. Would that be an R2500, as listed here?
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
If you can't be safe be deadly.
We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore, Excellence isn't an act but a habit.
ThomasYJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-07-2015, 08:31 PM   #3
Beowill
Member
 
Beowill's Avatar
2004 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chattanooga, Tennesse
Posts: 457
Sounds like its going to be an awesome build. Subscribed. What transfercase are you going to put behind your nv4500? Where are you planning to get your 4bt from? Any plans to intercool it? Sorry for all the questions lol
__________________
Not all those who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien

My LJ Cummins 4BT with 1 Ton's Build: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/20...ation-2703513/
Beowill is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-07-2015, 08:32 PM   #4
Beowill
Member
 
Beowill's Avatar
2004 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chattanooga, Tennesse
Posts: 457
Also you should get a welder and learn to do it yourself. Best decision you'll make on the project!
__________________
Not all those who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien

My LJ Cummins 4BT with 1 Ton's Build: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/20...ation-2703513/
Beowill is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-07-2015, 08:36 PM   #5
ThomasYJ
Registered User
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: , All over
Posts: 665
Thanks!

for the 4bt, theres a couple a few hours away. dont wanna give away my source lest they're bought before I'm ready And yeah I'll definitely be adding an I/C. Got the idea and the PN from youngjeepr on here. gonna roll with the stock 231

I was considering it.. but I don't know the first thing about welding lol.. though I suppose some time spent on google and youtube would help?
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
If you can't be safe be deadly.
We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore, Excellence isn't an act but a habit.
ThomasYJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-07-2015, 09:04 PM   #6
The_Goob
Hell on Wheels
 
The_Goob's Avatar
1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Walcott, IA
Posts: 3,639
Subbed!
The_Goob is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-07-2015, 10:46 PM   #7
CPsloTJ
Registered User
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: San Luis Obispo, California
Posts: 54
Sweet Build man! Looking forward to seeing this thing come together
CPsloTJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-08-2015, 12:42 PM   #8
y2k-fxst
Registered User
1964 CJ6 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: North English, Iowa
Posts: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasYJ View Post
Thanks!

for the 4bt, theres a couple a few hours away. dont wanna give away my source lest they're bought before I'm ready And yeah I'll definitely be adding an I/C. Got the idea and the PN from youngjeepr on here. gonna roll with the stock 231

I was considering it.. but I don't know the first thing about welding lol.. though I suppose some time spent on google and youtube would help?
Hope you have been around the 4bt before. While they are the buzz for swaps lately, they are unrefined especially compared to a modern automotive type diesel. They will vibrate the hell out of everything, they are VERY noisy, and are not meant for use in a light duty vehicle. They don't call them a paint shaker for no reason! Have heard reports that they quickly kill items like AC compressors from the vibration! Basically the 4bt was created as a stationary power plant to power generators, pumps etc. They also were found in Case backhoes. When they decided to put them in bread trucks they changed the injector pumps to on-road pumps. Make sure the motor you get is an on-road motor, an off-road motor has a governor designed to keep the motor at a certain speed. If an off-road motor is used it will have the tendency to actually pull you through an intersection.

Make sure you think through your mounts, and final use. I see a lot of people running the fluid filled mounts in a Jeep. To me that is dangerous unless only used on road, as they have minimal shear strength. In a vehicle that is going to be used off-road and put into off-camber situations I am worried about the movement of the motor side-to-side and the possibility of shearing the mounts. A solid rubber mount that is positioned higher than the center line of the crank, even though they will transmit more vibrations, will be more secure.

As far as welding goes, you can watch all the videos you want but, find a friend that is a welder. Not just a weekend welder but, a professional. Have them give you advice, then spend hundreds of hours on practice! You will be needing good welding skills to make your motor mounts, trans mounts, and axle brackets. Any failures on any one of these can turn a good day bad in a hurry!

After all this negativity, I really hope you luck. Just think every thing through. I will be following your build as I am doing a 4btaa swap into an early CJ myself. Just want you to know what is ahead of you.
__________________
I own a JEEP and a Harley, and some people still can't figure out why I'm always broke!
y2k-fxst is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-08-2015, 12:49 PM   #9
y2k-fxst
Registered User
1964 CJ6 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: North English, Iowa
Posts: 246
Another thing, just noticed you are planning a NV4500 but, planning on running the 231 transfer case. Don't know if they will mount up together. Think you are going to need a HD241 to mate them together. And when looking at transfer cases the Cummins automatics run a 23 spline output and the Cummins NV4500 has a 29 spline output.
__________________
I own a JEEP and a Harley, and some people still can't figure out why I'm always broke!
y2k-fxst is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-08-2015, 05:26 PM   #10
The_Goob
Hell on Wheels
 
The_Goob's Avatar
1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Walcott, IA
Posts: 3,639
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2k-fxst View Post
I will be following your build as I am doing a 4btaa swap into an early CJ myself. Just want you to know what is ahead of you.
You have a build thread? id like to follow that. Like running into almost local people on here!
The_Goob is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-08-2015, 05:32 PM   #11
y2k-fxst
Registered User
1964 CJ6 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: North English, Iowa
Posts: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Goob View Post
You have a build thread? id like to follow that. Like running into almost local people on here!
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/1...tomod-2760322/
__________________
I own a JEEP and a Harley, and some people still can't figure out why I'm always broke!
y2k-fxst is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-08-2015, 07:17 PM   #12
Anticanman
Follow me
 
Anticanman's Avatar
1994 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Ripon, California
Posts: 19,934
I'll be watching this thread. Looks to be a nice build
__________________
Luck Favours The Prepared
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Anticanman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-09-2015, 08:27 PM   #13
youngjeeper11
Senior Member
 
youngjeeper11's Avatar
1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Morgantown, PA
Posts: 962
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2k-fxst View Post
Make sure you think through your mounts, and final use. I see a lot of people running the fluid filled mounts in a Jeep. To me that is dangerous unless only used on road, as they have minimal shear strength. In a vehicle that is going to be used off-road and put into off-camber situations I am worried about the movement of the motor side-to-side and the possibility of shearing the mounts. A solid rubber mount that is positioned higher than the center line of the crank, even though they will transmit more vibrations, will be more secure.
Luckily there is a guy who makes mounts that are designed exactly as you described

Good luck man looks like an awesome build. I will keep an eye on it!

And I highly recommend a Miller 180 MIG welder for starting out. It is a great little unit, and not going to break the bank too bad. It will do anything you need to do on a jeep.

TJ
__________________
Jeep 1:Used to have a 93 YJ 2.5l- 3.5" Black Diamond, Chevy TBI 5.7l V8, SM 465 4 speed, 8.8 rear( 4.10, L/S), rhinoline, Mile Marker 9000, NP 231, Had to sell it due to college
Jeep 2: 89/91 YJ, 4BT Cummins, NV4500, NP 231, Old Man Emu 2.5" suspension lift, 1" body lift.....Runs and drives, but very much a project
Interned at Novak Conversions 2 summers ago

Ask me about my 4BT Cummins Motor Mounts!!
youngjeeper11 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-09-2015, 08:56 PM   #14
y2k-fxst
Registered User
1964 CJ6 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: North English, Iowa
Posts: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngjeeper11 View Post
Luckily there is a guy who makes mounts that are designed exactly as you described

Good luck man looks like an awesome build. I will keep an eye on it!

And I highly recommend a Miller 180 MIG welder for starting out. It is a great little unit, and not going to break the bank too bad. It will do anything you need to do on a jeep.

TJ
Are you the one that makes mounts? Know I've seen some pre-made ones around like what I am planning to build. Someone like the OP with minimal welding and probably fabrication skills, and probably minimal fabrication tools would definitely be ahead spending the money on pre-fabed mounts.

Just bugs the heck out of me these guys running liquid mounts on vehicles they plan to run off-road. Even in my bread truck they have stops welded to the mounts that will contact each other in case of a frontal impact, to keep the motor from shooting out of the front of the truck! Figure 3/4 of the 4bt builds I start reading use the liquid mounts. But, end part way through, and probably don't ever see the road again. Have had to replace broken liquid mounts in Ford cars after an accident with a light v-6 motor!
__________________
I own a JEEP and a Harley, and some people still can't figure out why I'm always broke!
y2k-fxst is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-10-2015, 11:47 AM   #15
y2k-fxst
Registered User
1964 CJ6 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: North English, Iowa
Posts: 246
What also makes me nervous is the mounts that are sold by Jeff Daniels. They appear to be even weaker than the liquid bread truck mounts. Scares me to think of having a motor as heavy as a 4bt sitting clear at the top of a stud like they recommend. And for the price of their mounting brackets they really don't look very stout. Just some bent 1/3" or 1/2" plate with no reinforcement!
__________________
I own a JEEP and a Harley, and some people still can't figure out why I'm always broke!
y2k-fxst is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools






Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.