Project REDLYNER: Rock Crawler Driven Daily... - Page 273 - JeepForum.com
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post #4081 of 6902 Old 07-18-2013, 05:58 PM Thread Starter
REDLYNER
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Lol. Come on man, just because you don't have the ability to understand my reasoning, doesn't mean you should call me stupid or lazy, or even think of hinting at it. The fact that you would post that clearly shows you don't get it.


Lazy and stupid? Come on man.


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post #4082 of 6902 Old 07-18-2013, 06:47 PM
clintrivera
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Slugs seem like a perfectly good way to go to me. If you are able to break a ARB 'd fab 9 with alloy axles and CTM's on 37's behind an automatic 4.0, it's probably a good time to be done with the race anyway.
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post #4083 of 6902 Old 07-18-2013, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
REDLYNER
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clintrivera View Post
Slugs seem like a perfectly good way to go to me. If you are able to break a ARB 'd fab 9 with alloy axles and CTM's on 37's behind an automatic 4.0, it's probably a good time to be done with the race anyway.
Yes, I agree.

I'm building this axle (and the rear) long term for 39"s and 350+hp, so hopefully short term 37"s and 4.0 don't damage it too much.

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post #4084 of 6902 Old 07-18-2013, 07:31 PM
Zjones1994
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Im a huge fan of lockable hubs but for your situation and where you wheel and figuring the fact you travel for races and I'm sure you'll eventually travel more and more that slugs are a great choice. At the end of the day it's your axle and its going under your jeep so do as you wish!

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post #4085 of 6902 Old 07-18-2013, 08:01 PM
rckchucker
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Not to beat the dead horse again, but I would get the Yukon hubs. They are nearly as low profile as a drive slug cap and you have the ability to disengage the tire from the axle should you need it. Also, if the yukons fail, they fail locked. You will not be stranded with out power to that wheel unless you grenade the shaft. A couple weeks ago my brother, a couple buddies and I ran up a little trail near me. It was pretty gnarly crawling over vw sized boulders with water running down it. I run h2 wheels with 5.5" of backspacing, so my hubs stick out and do get hit on occasion. The yukons take it in stride and work flawlessly. On this particular trip my brother exploded and axle shaft. He unlocked the hub for that front tire and was able to limp off the trail in 2 low and then drive home with out any problems in 2 high. Yes it was a 44 and you will be running 60 shafts and joints. But guess what. Racing breaks parts. I would throw the "convenience" of having a rubicon like axle out the window. It seriously takes me 10 seconds to lock my hubs in before I hit the trail. And when I was in Moab last month I locked them in when I pulled into camp and unlocked them when I left the gas station on my way home.

That said, decide for yourself. Opinions are like butts. Everyone has one. When I built my killer axle, I wanted hubs. Lots of people told me both ways but I ended up choosing for myself.
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post #4086 of 6902 Old 07-19-2013, 11:54 AM
joshr1987
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May of missed it, but are you going to be ready for ECORS at the Flats in August?
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post #4087 of 6902 Old 07-19-2013, 07:21 PM
aw12345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MO2500 View Post
Stay with slugs IMO. Simple, strong, and will be just like any TJ axle on the road with an ARB locker. You can bust them on the rocks hard enough to break or even lose the cap and you will still have 4wd since the slug is retained in the hub. I don't know if that is the case with a locking hub if you were to bust the knob and cap all to pieces, maybe?

I'm running RPM offroad chromo drive slugs FWIW. If you were going spool in the front and wanted to retain street manners, manual hubs would be great. With an ARB, i'd just stick to slugs, they are stronger.
Here is fuel for the fire, run slugs for racing, selectable hubs for street driving and regular trail use. Slugs are cheap and strong for racing use. Hubs save some gas and help the power situation for street driving. I got both and like it that way. When going to the Hammers the slugs go in for all other uses I like the selectable hubs. On the cost of your front axle a few hundred dollars is like a drop in the bucket

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post #4088 of 6902 Old 07-20-2013, 08:50 AM
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDLYNER View Post

2. This jeep is still my daily driver. It will continue to be my daily driver and the only days I won't be in it are when my wife out arm wrestles me and she takes it to work. Currently it sees 3,000 to 5,000 miles per year. So I completely agree with you on the Super Joints, that is why I made the switch.


I'm learning by the minute on this stuff.
Pay close attention to your Ackermann angle when you set up your tie rod. If you daily drive it on the street, you will regret ignoring it in favor of clearance. You can make a tie rod tough enough to handle being abused by rocks, you cannot get rid of darty steering if you ignore Ackermann.

I don't know what you plan for your steering in total, but if you are using a higher steer arm on both sides with F-450 stuff and intend to raise the tie rod up anywhere near them, it will in all likelihood steer like crap on the street if you care about such things.

I've not seen a high steer arm yet that was built correctly to take that into account if there is any way to get a bolt through the lower factory arm and up through the upper arm.

In order to be close to correct, the factory lower arm needs to move out inside the rim by about another inch or so due to the much longer wheelbase of the truck they came off of.

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post #4089 of 6902 Old 07-20-2013, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
REDLYNER
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It is more important that this jeep drive smoothly on the street than anywhere else, priority número uno. I'll sacrifice clearance, etc for a smoother ride to the mall.

East Coast Gear Supply is building the axle and in my conversations with them they described it as not a high steer setup. The tie rod I believe is going to be around the axle tube height. They are pretty confident in the setup in that I shouldn't see much if any bump steer. Blaine, by all means throw your comments and criticisms up here, i need all the info and knowledge out there to hold off Gerald more than the first 4 or 5 miles next time .

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post #4090 of 6902 Old 07-20-2013, 02:11 PM
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDLYNER View Post
It is more important that this jeep drive smoothly on the street than anywhere else, priority número uno. I'll sacrifice clearance, etc for a smoother ride to the mall.

East Coast Gear Supply is building the axle and in my conversations with them they described it as not a high steer setup. The tie rod I believe is going to be around the axle tube height. They are pretty confident in the setup in that I shouldn't see much if any bump steer. Blaine, by all means throw your comments and criticisms up here, i need all the info and knowledge out there to hold off Gerald more than the first 4 or 5 miles next time .
The rules are simple, implementation requires patience and the willingness to make or modify stuff to make the rules work.

I step the draglink down off the top of the upper steer arm so I can lower the trackbar down onto the top of the inner C. That slows down how deep the notch in the frame for the trackbar and draglink have to be on a normal set-up.

On Mike's and others, I have to clearance the lower side of the frame side engine mount for the upper arm so there is a bunch of uptravel.

I use Parts Mike HMA TRE's for the draglink. Simple, effective, very high misalignment, easy to work with and I've yet to wear one out.

I use 7/8's shank 3/4" bore FK rod ends for the trackbar and tie rod. I use no misalignment spacers or bushings for either one which allows me to use 3/4" grade 8 or F911 bolts in either single or double shear.

Attach end of assist cylinder to the knuckle if at all possible. There is no way to stop it from rolling the tie rod and the best you can do is limit the roll if you attach it to the tie rod and limiting the roll adds wear to the ends.

Draglink and trackbar want to be the same length and in the same plane front to back to limit the amount of perceptible bumpsteer you feel.

I center the axle at ride height, build the upper passenger arms and draglink attachment points and after that is relatively close to dialed in, then I measure the draglink and make a trackbar the same length. Attach that to the inner C and float the other end to line up and grow a mount to it.

When you get to where you need more, let me know and I'll walk you through it.

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post #4091 of 6902 Old 07-20-2013, 02:28 PM
E_ROCK
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Slugs.....hubs......slugs.....hubs....What did I miss?

You can always install a hubs and carry a slug, if you need it for a race repair.

But don't listen to me....I final just a round front driveshaft after like five years on a square one.

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post #4092 of 6902 Old 07-20-2013, 04:33 PM
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDLYNER View Post
It is more important that this jeep drive smoothly on the street than anywhere else, priority número uno. I'll sacrifice clearance, etc for a smoother ride to the mall.

East Coast Gear Supply is building the axle and in my conversations with them they described it as not a high steer setup. The tie rod I believe is going to be around the axle tube height. They are pretty confident in the setup in that I shouldn't see much if any bump steer. Blaine, by all means throw your comments and criticisms up here, i need all the info and knowledge out there to hold off Gerald more than the first 4 or 5 miles next time .
Reading again, I missed that part the first time through. The only way they can make that assurance is if they are supplying the pitman arm, know the exact location of the draglink and trackbar and are building and supplying the frame and axle mounts for both.

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post #4093 of 6902 Old 07-22-2013, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
Reading again, I missed that part the first time through. The only way they can make that assurance is if they are supplying the pitman arm, know the exact location of the draglink and trackbar and are building and supplying the frame and axle mounts for both.
Exactly what I was a little unsure of.... I'm sure the guys can build the axle but when it comes to the mounts and locations, there's no way they can get it just right without the rest of your Jeep. I'd hold off on the mounts until you've got the axle there with you.

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post #4094 of 6902 Old 07-22-2013, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
REDLYNER
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Exactly what I was a little unsure of.... I'm sure the guys can build the axle but when it comes to the mounts and locations, there's no way they can get it just right without the rest of your Jeep. I'd hold off on the mounts until you've got the axle there with you.
A lot of stuff going on behind the scenes, I don't like posting up too much about it until I have pictures and tires on pavement, other wise I do a poor job explaining it and cause all kinds of debates like so .

ECGS is building the axle, then another shop will be putting it under the rig.

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post #4095 of 6902 Old 07-22-2013, 01:58 PM
Imped
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDLYNER View Post
A lot of stuff going on behind the scenes, I don't like posting up too much about it until I have pictures and tires on pavement, other wise I do a poor job explaining it and cause all kinds of debates like so .

ECGS is building the axle, then another shop will be putting it under the rig.
Understood. I hope the second shop is as detail-oriented and knowledgeable as they need to be in order to meet your goals.

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