This is the second phase of my original build ( in my sig) that I finished in 2010. Everything has been great with the rig except for one thing. The power level of the 4.0 has always left me wanting more. Which brings us up to today.
So I stoped by the junkyard to talk with a buddy of mine that runs the sales department. He made me bring this home:
and this:
and these:
It is a 2001 5.3L with a 4L60e and some Tj front drive shafts to elimanate the front disco crap.
I spent a few hours tearing a bunch of crap off the engine along witht the wiring harness and ECU.
The wiring harness is getting sent of tomorrow to get torn apart and a bunch of unneeded emissions sensors deleted. The ECU will also get programed.
Today I ordered an Advance Adapters kit to adapt the 231J to the 4l60e and to add a VSS sensor between the tranny and transfer case.
More to come In the next few weeks. I plan to cover everything with the install.
Were you checking the fuel pressure with a vacuum line hooked up to the regulator? It is supposed to be checked with the vacuum line not hooked up. That would explain it being 10 too low at idle and 58 at wot...
Do you have access to a propane tank? If so, use that to check for the vacuum leak...
BTW, thanks for this thread. I am wanting to start getting parts together for this swap in my 82 CJ7 with either a 5.3 or 6.0 if I can find a deal on one.
I was checking it first with the vacuum line hooked up and was getting 48 psi, Then I pulled the vacuum hose and plugged the port, got 58 psi. Which from what I understand is correct, in that it should jump 10 psi when the line is disconnected.
I used carb cleaner and a small butane torch to try to gas the engine to find a leak. But with no luck. I did however find that my booster is leaking. I plugged it and it had no effect on my in gear driving long term fuel trims.
A GM tech seems to think that it is a fuel supply issue. As in I'm not getting enough fuel to the motor. He suggested that I use a fuel pump from a 1996 GMC Yukon with a 5.7 vin R engine. He says it should be an almost straight swap. So I ordered one today.
No problem posting all this up. I just hope that I don't discourage anyone. With this type of project that are always going to be issues. These are just mine and I hope that it helps someone else out along the way. The issue I have now doesn't keep me from driving it. It drives fine. It is just running on the lean side of the fuel curve. The motor is not running lean it is just adding fuel like it is.
Yes. and from what I can tell from pictures it uses the same electrical connector. I should have it early next week. And once I run this tank down I'll be putting it in. I'll try to get some pics of it next to a stock replacement YJ pump.
I'm sure anew Yj pump would work fine. At least that is what everyone tells me. Mine is just old and worn down. But if I am going to drop the tank anyhow then I am only going to do it once and install a pump that is designed to move that much fuel.
Another option would have been to use an inline walbro 255. That would have let the stock pump feed the walbro and would have resulted in more flow than the walbro or the new one you got. Hopefully that new pump will fix this issue. I will have to do a complete fuel system since mine is a CJ.
I ran into a similiar issue with my old car. Was feeding a 1050 Dominator and the 3/8 line wouldn't feed enough at WOT. I ended up spending $1,200 on a complete fuel system, sumped the tank, big Barry Grant pump/filter -10AN line the whole way, new lines to the carb, the whole nine yards. The damned motor was still falling flat on its face! Turns out the BRAND NEW BG fuel pressure regulator I had put on initially was no good! I spend $1,200 to replace a $90 fuel pressure regulator......
I ran into a similiar issue with my old car. Was feeding a 1050 Dominator and the 3/8 line wouldn't feed enough at WOT. I ended up spending $1,200 on a complete fuel system, sumped the tank, big Barry Grant pump/filter -10AN line the whole way, new lines to the carb, the whole nine yards. The damned motor was still falling flat on its face! Turns out the BRAND NEW BG fuel pressure regulator I had put on initially was no good! I spend $1,200 to replace a $90 fuel pressure regulator......
That's sucks. Right now I'm at about $400 bucks and not happy about it.
DLWRUBI said:
I didn't know the 5.3L was vacuum referenced and probably why it reads lower when plugged in. Mine is not vacuum referenced, it's supposed to be 60 psi all the time.
I would hit Wayne up and ask him if he took into consideration when programming your PCM that you have a vacuum referenced fuel system because in later years of the 5.3L they are not vacuum referenced.
I have the aeromotive 340 lph pump. It's alot like the 255, just supplies more fuel, it's over kill but WTF...
The specs on mine are 55-62. If the regulator is operating properly it should read 10psi higher when unplugged. Which mine does. The fact that it is vacuum operated shouldn't make a difference. The PSI should stay the same regardsless.
When I read my pressure it is 48 psi. Then when reving it climbs to 52 ish. Then if I let off it falls down to 45 then climbs back up to 48.
I can't tell what pressure is when driving. Obviously the motor demands more fuel when in drive and under throttle the. When in park and reving it in the driveway.
The specs on mine are 55-62. If the regulator is operating properly it should read 10psi higher when unplugged. Which mine does. The fact that it is vacuum operated shouldn't make a difference. The PSI should stay the same regardsless.
When I read my pressure it is 48 psi. Then when reving it climbs to 52 ish. Then if I let off it falls down to 45 then climbs back up to 48.
I can't tell what pressure is when driving. Obviously the motor demands more fuel when in drive and under throttle the. When in park and reving it in the driveway.
Well, I misunderstood how a vacuum reference works, I thought it adjusted pressure under different loads based on the vacuum, but looks like the intent is to keep the pressure at the rail constant...my bad.
My YJ is an 87 and had no electric fuel pump so I bought a stock 92 YJ fuel pump assembly and put in the tank. Hope it works out ok. Only 28.00 on ebay.
That kind of makes since now. So if you have 48 psi base pressure and 10 psi manifold vacuum you will have collectively 58 psi. As RPM's go up pressure in the manifold go up and the fuel rail (injector input) pressure goes up as well to compensate for the added pressure? I wonder why they did away with the vacuum reference, seems like it would be better in a way, concerning the tuning. I suppose it has it's cons. I know my LS3 instructions specifically says not to use a vacuum reference and it must maintain a constant 60 psi.
Technically the pressure goes down in the manifold as throttle is applied (vacuum). which increases the fuel pressure. Which is you an pull a regulators vacuum tube and the fuel pressure goes up. I would say that they went away from vacuum reference so that they had a constant psi. Eliminates a variable that the ECU has to account for.
I found some specs today and with key on engine off I should be seeing 55-62 psi. I am not, 50 at best after keying on 4 or 5 times. I got my new regulator in today and it preformed a little better than the old one. I have 50psi at idle, as I rev the motor the psi drop to 46-47ish. Im sure in gear under load it drops even further.
So I think I definitely have a fuel supply issue, the regulator is working correctly, I don't have injectors leaking nor do I have fuel leak down out of spec. The 18 year old stock pump just doesn't have the umph to get that much fuel under pressure to the rail. I could throw in a new YJ pump but I only want to do this once so I'm putting in a higher psi and flowing pump so that I don't have to worry about it. I think the stock Jeep fuel pressure is something like 39 psi? Im asking for 20 more psi that that and a lot more flow.
Suppose to be almost a direct swap. I have no idea what almost means, but from what I can tell it looks very similar to the stock pump and appears to use the same wiring connector as Jeep does. It should be here early next week So I will figure it out then. I also picked up a GM strainer for the pump I bought, and stopped at the dealership and got a YJ fuel sending unit gasket.
In the mean time I have a full tank of gas to use.
Also the weather has been awesome. So I took my 700 out for a 500yrd walk this morning.
Technically the pressure goes down in the manifold as throttle is applied (vacuum). which increases the fuel pressure. Which is you an pull a regulators vacuum tube and the fuel pressure goes up. I would say that they went away from vacuum reference so that they had a constant psi. Eliminates a variable that the ECU has to account for.[/IMG]
Maybe I'm still looking at this wrong, parden my ignorance. Vacuum and pressure are sort of two different things right (less vaccum, more pressure, more air coming in as throttle opens)? so when vacuum drops, the pressure in the manifold goes up? Less vaccuum = more manifold pressure = more fuel rail pressure? The input of the fuel injector = more pressure than the output of the fuel injector? With vacuum your sucking on the output of the injector, and with less vacuum (more pressure) you have more pressure/air against the output of the injector. This is where vacuum reference comes in handy I would think, to adjust the rail pressure to compensate for the extra manifold pressure pushing agains the injector output? This would keep fuel supply more constant I would think. With a set fuel pressure, it seems the PCM would have to compensate more since it never adjusts for the different vacuum/pressures in the manifold like a vacuum reference would. This is why I thought the tunes would be set up differently but what the heck do I know ...Bare with me here, sorry to beat this like a dead horse, thought I had it under control, at least in my head, it doesn't always translate when typed out though.
It's a Remington 700 SPS with the 20" bull barrel in .308. With a Bushnell Elite that I really like. Not the best glass in the world but it works better than my eyes do.
Nice!! I run a custom AR10, 22 1/2" stainless barrel, Ben Cooley brake, hydro buffer with a Leupold Mark IV 6.5-20. Been out to just over 1,200 with it. Lots of fun but the ammo costs too damned much.
seems you bug in FP was the culperate. you should read 55psi ish at idle with vacuum applied and higher with the vacuum taken away. the lower intake vacuum from the throttle being opened effectively increases FP at the rail to keep fuel demand at higher rpms. bummer i didn't see this earlier as i've been busy the past few days. im hoping to sell my modified fuel pump and plastic tank. lol oh well maybe someone will want it someday. im pretty excited to order a bunch of parts next week! still hoping next spring to have this beast rolling out under it's own power! let me know if your interested in a spare tank/pump
funny enough i went shooting today myself and hammered some targets with my 9mm pistol pretty severely.
Nice!! I run a custom AR10, 22 1/2" stainless barrel, Ben Cooley brake, hydro buffer with a Leupold Mark IV 6.5-20. Been out to just over 1,200 with it. Lots of fun but the ammo costs too damned much.
My boss shots 1000yrd comps with a fully custom AR10. That rifle is a lot of fun.
BionicOnion said:
seems you bug in FP was the culperate. you should read 55psi ish at idle with vacuum applied and higher with the vacuum taken away. the lower intake vacuum from the throttle being opened effectively increases FP at the rail to keep fuel demand at higher rpms. bummer i didn't see this earlier as i've been busy the past few days. im hoping to sell my modified fuel pump and plastic tank. lol oh well maybe someone will want it someday. im pretty excited to order a bunch of parts next week! still hoping next spring to have this beast rolling out under it's own power! let me know if your interested in a spare tank/pump
funny enough i went shooting today myself and hammered some targets with my 9mm pistol pretty severely.
Nice gun setup. I have been wanting to build a nice rifle, just have not had time for it with everything else I have to do so I just stick with my Browning a-bolt 270. I really prefer to bow hunt though with my Hoyt Carbon Element. Had shoulder surgery This past wednesday though so I won't be working on or shooting anything any time soon.
Once you get the issues worked out with the fuel do you plan to add a cam or anything?
I don't plan on any motor upgrades at this time. Maybe next year. Right now I want to get some rear tube flares, a new front bumper (something with a winch hoop) and I need new body mounts. I found during this project that mine are shot.
And I'm not so sure that my d44 rear and front d30 will handle anymore power.
I used a conversion radiator For an automatic I bought on EBay. It is made by Superior Radiator in Michigan. Just call them and they will get you squared away.
tel 58620463208722
But make sure that it has the correct size inlets and outlets. Upper is 1.25 and lower is 1.5.
I ended up using a flexible rad hose that was 15.25" long x 1.5. That I cut a little of off each end to make work. Ill dig up the hose part number and post it.
OK thats whats throwing me off. Mine is a stock gm waterpump and has 1.5 upper and 1.75 lower measurements. 1.25 seems small like a stock YJ hose. Maybe mine has a different waterpump. ?? Who knows. One other question is did you radiator have tabs on it to mount your stock fan shroud to?
OK Im not ashamed to admit when Im wrong. LOL I measured my waterpump in the dark. You are correct on the 1.5 and 1.25 measurements. Superior radiator does make a radiator with those size outlets both on the same side for 300.00 and 450.00 with electric fan setup.
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