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Unread 11-04-2013, 05:40 AM   #31
dayriesw
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Nice purchase on the tc.... When does the build start? opcorn:

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Unread 11-04-2013, 01:47 PM   #32
clintrivera
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Originally Posted by rckchucker View Post
If you like to push the skinny pedal at all, I would pass on a 30 and a 44. The older 44's run the same u-joints as the later model 30's. Before I swapped my 60's in, the only problems I had with my 30 on 35's was the u-joints. I broke them all the time. which in turn would take out the shaft. and the ball joints once. if you can search around and find the right 60, you can swap it in for not much more than it will cost you to polish a turd. and i'm sure you can do it cheaper than a JK 44...which has issues of its own. The housing is not up to snuff unless you sleeve it and gusset it and truss it. then guess what, you are even more than a 60.

Here is a little motivation for you. This is my dad's jeep. He has the same basic set up as mine, but it is more of a sleeper since he doesn't have tube fenders...it is a '98. 4.0L, ax15 blah blah blah. Up front is a 91 King Pin 60. Full width. It is 81" tire bulge to tire bulge. Not bad. He is running h2 wheels though. They are 5.5" of backspacing on a 9" wide wheel. He is running 4" springs...or so. His Jeep is less than an inch taller than mine on 3"-ish springs.



I would avoid narrowing a front 60, unless you narrow it to use another factory length shaft. If you break a custom shaft, it is a real pain to have to wait for several weeks to get a replacement...Also, if you are worried about width that much, I'm pretty sure you can get TR beadlocks in a 6" backspace and probably walker evans too. I'm not sure about racelines though. I know they have 4.75 on their website. I don't know if they would custom machine any though. anyway. that's my $.02. I built my Jeep on 35's and an 8.8 and 30. it wasn't long before i was breaking something every trip. since i did the tons, i haven't broken anything (knock on wood)...and I have gotten a lot heavier foot too.
Lots to chew on there... I would really like one ton axles - here are some of the issues I'm running into. I need to be under 80" total width. I would be fine with full width and ~6"bs wheels, but using a later D60 and coil springs I think would be hard to do without narrowing the long side.

The big issue I'm finding with the 14B, is there aren't any good break setups I can find for them. All the bolt on / weld on kit use a front 1/2 or 3/4 caliper, and that's too big to have decent brake bias especially if you run the same thing in the front. Other issue is the lack of an E-brake unless you get the crappy eldo brakes.

So I suppose for the rear I'm back to a narrowed D60 or D70U, which would mean I would need an alignment bar.... And broach the D60 for 35 spline....

Or I could just drop $12-14K on a set of bolt in alxes from XYZ vendor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dayriesw View Post
Nice purchase on the tc.... When does the build start? opcorn:
I need to gather more parts. Most importantly, the axles.
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Unread 11-04-2013, 01:59 PM   #33
gst95dsm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clintrivera
The thing is, from the videos I watch of you wheeling - I see a very controlled, smooth, finesse based driving style. That's totally fine and usually how I drive. Sometimes though, it's fun just to plant the throttle to the floor and bounce around stuff. I'm not sure your setup would survive that type of driving for long especially with a 4.0 or a V8 swap. I did make my first purchase for the project though, and as everyone knows, one part can dictate the direction of a lot of other parts. Picked it up for $500. Only 42K on it and comes with both a 1330 yoke and the standard rubicon yoke. This is the cheapest I've ever seen one so I had to grab it. With that said, the 5.3 swap is going on the back burner and most likely part of a 2.0 build unless I start hating the 6 speed.
I agree with you 100%. Congrats on the t-case. That was a score.
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Unread 11-04-2013, 06:16 PM   #34
rckchucker
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Originally Posted by clintrivera View Post
Lots to chew on there... I would really like one ton axles - here are some of the issues I'm running into. I need to be under 80" total width. I would be fine with full width and ~6"bs wheels, but using a later D60 and coil springs I think would be hard to do without narrowing the long side.

The big issue I'm finding with the 14B, is there aren't any good break setups I can find for them. All the bolt on / weld on kit use a front 1/2 or 3/4 caliper, and that's too big to have decent brake bias especially if you run the same thing in the front. Other issue is the lack of an E-brake unless you get the crappy eldo brakes.

So I suppose for the rear I'm back to a narrowed D60 or D70U, which would mean I would need an alignment bar.... And broach the D60 for 35 spline....

Or I could just drop $12-14K on a set of bolt in alxes from XYZ vendor.




I need to gather more parts. Most importantly, the axles.
First off, why the 80" limit?

Coils work great on the later model 60's. I have set up 4 late 80's/early 90's king pin and ball joint 60's to bolt into a TJ and will be starting number 5 very soon. These 60's actually work better than the 78-79 ones that everyone gets excited about. with these your pinion moves about an inch or so closer to the frame compared to the stock axle. whereas with the 79 d60 it moves ~3" towards the center of the jeep causing issue with driveline to exhaust/transmission clearance. here are some pics...







as for the rear, i agree with you 100% that 3/4 ton chev brake conversions stink, and eldo calipers are trash. I have something I'm working on now to get a pretty killer e brake setup using any sort of rear brakes. But I'll keep that under wraps until I get it working. Just need to find the time...

Have you looked at a tear drop D60? Thats what I run in mine. It is 67" wide, smooth on the bottom, 3 5/8" axle tubes, big d70 sized spindles (read: 35 spline shafts with no mods) and if you can get one out of the right van, it comes with dual piston disc brakes with an ebrake in the rotor hat. Gold. I got mine out of a '99 Ford Econoline e350 superduty. Just make sure it has 248 cast into the webbing on center section. I got mine out of picknpull for $45 on a half off sale.

This is the only pic I can find of my rear end right now...I can get more if you are interested.

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Unread 11-04-2013, 07:00 PM   #35
clintrivera
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Originally Posted by rckchucker View Post
First off, why the 80" limit?

Coils work great on the later model 60's. I have set up 4 late 80's/early 90's king pin and ball joint 60's to bolt into a TJ and will be starting number 5 very soon. These 60's actually work better than the 78-79 ones that everyone gets excited about. with these your pinion moves about an inch or so closer to the frame compared to the stock axle. whereas with the 79 d60 it moves ~3" towards the center of the jeep causing issue with driveline to exhaust/transmission clearance. here are some pics...







as for the rear, i agree with you 100% that 3/4 ton chev brake conversions stink, and eldo calipers are trash. I have something I'm working on now to get a pretty killer e brake setup using any sort of rear brakes. But I'll keep that under wraps until I get it working. Just need to find the time...

Have you looked at a tear drop D60? Thats what I run in mine. It is 67" wide, smooth on the bottom, 3 5/8" axle tubes, big d70 sized spindles (read: 35 spline shafts with no mods) and if you can get one out of the right van, it comes with dual piston disc brakes with an ebrake in the rotor hat. Gold. I got mine out of a '99 Ford Econoline e350 superduty. Just make sure it has 248 cast into the webbing on center section. I got mine out of picknpull for $45 on a half off sale.

This is the only pic I can find of my rear end right now...I can get more if you are interested.

That's awesome information. I've been looking up 1 ton axles for days straight and I never came up with the E350 D60. Looks like it also uses the 8 on 6.5 bolt pattern.

Also, I thought on the later front D60's that running full width with coil spring pads would put the pads almost into the center section plus put the center section into the frame rail. Looking at your pictures I see that's defiantly not the case and am now wondering how people get away with narrowing these 4-5" on the long side?

As far as the 80" requirement, one of the off road parks I go to has a 80" width limit (as in steel posts set in concrete at 80" apart) plus it needs to appear somewhat street legal and I would like to do that without having wing like fenders sticking out.

If my calcualtions are correct, with a 80's Ford HPD60 at 69.25" WMS on a 9" wide wheel with 6" backspacing and a 12.5" wide tire I should be right at 78.75 total width. That would work great, and with drive flanges up front I wouldn't have to worry about grinding hubs against rocks.....

That maybe my solution. Thanks again!
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Unread 11-04-2013, 07:49 PM   #36
rckchucker
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you bet. glad i could help. the center section clears the frame nicely. it will eventually get into the frame, but you will be getting your tires into your fenders a long time before that...and yes, the E350 D60 is 8 on 6.5. I know it changed to 8 on 170mm but I'm not sure the exact year...sometime after 99 haha.
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Unread 11-04-2013, 07:51 PM   #37
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oh, i will say that the mounts are something like a 1/2 inch per side wider than a factory axle, but it works well as you can see. i just mount them as close the pumpkin as possible and match the measurement from the inner c for the passenger side.
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Unread 11-05-2013, 09:08 AM   #38
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Awesome. What are you using for your braking system and how do you like it's performance? (IE: master cylinder, booster, calipers). Also I see you have a high steer arm. Did Sky do that for you?
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Unread 11-05-2013, 09:30 AM   #39
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On my dad's he is running the factory dual piston ford D60 brakes and the rear is the dual piston calipers on his tear drop 60 out of that econoline. We used a master from a dodge 2500. this works incredibly well. I did a little bit of math to try and match the braking system we were cobbling together to what the engineers from the factory designed. I tried to match the master bore and stroke as close as I could to the master out of the ford truck his front end came out of. We came out pretty close with the Dodge master and his brake pedal feels pretty close to a stock Jeep, but he can lock up 37's at 65 mph (not fun doing that btw). My Jeep is similar, except my front end is chevy based so I'm using chevy brakes. Still the dodge master though.

We made the high steer arm you see in the pic. I had a local company laser it out and we drilled and machined it to fit. High steer on a king pin 60 is pretty easy though.
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Unread 11-05-2013, 10:44 AM   #40
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Interesting. I've read some people like the doge 2500 MC and some people hate it. It would make sense that a booster designed for a 1" bore MC would have a massive pressure reduction going to a much larger bore MC like the 2500. Usually you see the Durango 1 1/16" MC as the largest you should use with the stock booster for decent pressure and an increase in volume.

I suppose where I get confused is my buddy's 99 powerstroke superduty on 38 X 14 tires can stop it's very heavy self and a full dump trailer with no trailer brakes no problem. Why, then, would you need the amount of pressure needed to stop 12,000 pounds on 38" tires for a Jeep that weighs less than half that? It would seem to me that as long as you had a MC with enough volume for the calipers, you wouldn't need the same pressure as the truck it came off of considering the massive increase in brake pad area and rotor size. Or am I being silly?
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Unread 11-05-2013, 02:08 PM   #41
rckchucker
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The way I researched and understand it is this...It is not so much about the bore size in relationship to what the booster can handle, but what the bore size ratio is in comparison to the bore size of the piston. That is where you gain your mechanical advantage. A smaller bore will give you a greater mechanical advantage, however, your stroke will have to be much longer in order to fill up the caliper enough to build up that clamping force. The 2500 MC works very well in the applications I personally have used it in. It won't work everywhere. I can't really comment on the pressure. I don't know what it is in my Jeep compared to what the Dodge was. I know I could calculate it knowing how much leverage my pedal has and how much the booster assists, but I don't think that is necessary. Hopefully that helps clear some stuff up. If not, you should get on pirate and read billavista's brake bible. lots of really good stuff in there.
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Unread 11-05-2013, 08:23 PM   #42
clintrivera
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I defiantly have more to read up on brakes. I'm not going to mess around with that part of the build. I already contacted Vanco, and they can set me up with a hydroboost system that can also support hydro assist steering.

I made a spreadsheet of all my axle, suspension and tires and wheels. Yikes! Looks like I will have to sell some plasma at the blood bank!

"Final" plan looks like this:

2002-2004 Ford SD HPD60 with Zip locker, 5.13 gears, Branik 8 on 6.5 broached F450 unit bearings, 35 spline stubs and drive flanges, with passenger side high steer arm. PSC hydro assist.

1999 E350 D60 with Zip locker, 5.13 gears, and 35 spline axles.

4 link rear,3 link front possibly using poly performance kit

4" Currie springs

17" trail ready beadlocks with 37" MTR's.
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Unread 11-05-2013, 11:10 PM   #43
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sounds like a good plan. any reason in particular why you are doing drive flanges vs. lock outs? Yukon Hardcore hubs are the bomb. They fail locked and the dial is only 3/8" thick. They are probably not much different in price than slugs too. I'm assuming a large reason for the slugs is for their low profile?

Tons are expensive for sure, but it is not really different when you consider that the maintenance on them is a lot less than "car" axles since they don't break nearly as easy...the cost is just all up front rather than every month you break them haha
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Unread 11-06-2013, 12:07 AM   #44
dayriesw
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4" and 37s? What happened to 4.5" and 40s? Axles are about the same now as the original plans were.
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Unread 11-06-2013, 03:40 AM   #45
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Super stout front axle.
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