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Savvy FOX IFP 4" Lift Shocks in StockSavvy/Currie Aluminum Control ArmsSavvy Aluminum Gas Tank Skid

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Unread 06-01-2013, 06:17 PM   #481
Jeepin72
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Rear axle and front and all the extras = $12,862.00

I don't know if what I did was any cheaper than calling Dynatrac once you figure in my time. Granted, I now know how to take apart and repair every part of those axles (I am no ASE guy) but I can get it done.

I have to also factor in the work yet to be done, ram assist, hydroboost, and boring out the 60 or starting over with a 14B.

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Unread 06-01-2013, 11:28 PM   #482
jason m
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Never add it up, first rule you just broke, lol

I'm cheap, lets get that right out of the way. If its not broke I clean it up and re-use it, if it is broke I find a OEM replacement from my junk pile. I have maybe 1K into my axles and that also the cost of buying them.

But I built them with used gears, no lockers ( welded ) the same hardware from when they were built. I found super deals on things like 35 spline stubs, 40.00 for two brand new spicers. The drive flanges are a set of old school warns, picked them up fro 75.00 on Pirate.
I think the most expensive part in my front axle is the HP 5.38 gears which were 175.00 shipped, I allmost died pulling the money out of my PP

Junkyard axles are all in what they are old truck axles, if you find a good set then run them, if you get a set thats abused or have been sitting then they need alot of work.
I'm some what lucky to be on they northeast coast, as there are tons of trucks and axle's still waiting around here for me to pick threw or scrap. So I can take the junk axle's and stack them like cord wood or flip them cheap.

Look at it this way, there yours, the front is built just over come the rear with either a 14 B ( my choice but its your money and build ) or build the 60 to handle what your asking it to do.
Yes a set of crate axles is a quicker fix but what happens when they break, then you will be mad that the 10K axles you bought are broke.

Jason.
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1993 YJ 4.0 60 Front, Rear steer 60, bolth spooled, 5.38's, 700r/241 39.5 iroks and beating it like it owes me money.

And on the 8th day, God created the 14 bolt....
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Unread 06-02-2013, 02:58 AM   #483
tdij
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wow... makes me wonder what I actually spent building my rig... cause I wouldn't have guessed your axle swap was that expensive. Either way... You built them... and can rebuild them... you have gained experience and knowledge you can't get just writing the single check up front.

I am the first to say if I ever have another Jeep I will buy it built, but I wouldn't take back building(and rebuilding... and rebuilding... and...) my first one.

That has been a huge part of this world for me... I enjoy the satisfaction of having built my own stuff as much as I enjoy the satisfaction of making it up obstacles.

You should be proud of those axles... I would be. Your attention to detail and commitment doing things right is something I respect and envy.
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Unread 06-02-2013, 03:59 PM   #484
Jeepin72
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Yeah, I didn't think the sum total would be that high. I didn't keep most of the receipts for the rear. When I built the front I was curious about the compared cost of a crate axle. I was really interested in Dynatrac or Solid. My axle came in several thousand less than those. No matter how you slice it, I would have had to buy other things like steering no matter how I did it.

There were some big ticket items (like a locker) that quickly drove the price up. Heck the junkyard 60 front was $800.00 and it was thrashed. All of the 60 fronts I found around here at that time ran about that or more. And culling the junkyards is hard in the central rockies since most yards are about an hour away in Denver.

I really didn't re-use anything and chose to dump in new bearings and seals, ball joints, etc... That was not my plan at first. I wasn't going to do that, but as I tore that thing down and spent so many hours with wire wheels cleaning it up, I changed my mind. The tires were not cheap even though they were used. The shop supplies were a one time purchase too (except for the obvious expendable stuff like cut off disks, welding wire, etc).

I had to buy some tools that I didn't have, but now I do. I also tagged this project with a new Dewalt drill since I smoked the one had drilling a hole saw into my steel corners to make a nice curve.

That number at the top of the page is steering to rear diff cover so there was a lot of stuff bought that won't need to be bought again (ever) hopefully! For instance, the steering had to be done, but is it really part of building axles? TDIJ, as you pointed out in a post several pages ago, I took me almost a year! Thank god the expense was over that time a few bucks at a time.

I also started with a $6000.00 savings since I really thought I would be calling Dynatrac or Solid for the front. I just didn't want to figure out the math on the front end. I am glad I did now. It wasn't as scary as I thought. And who knows, I got some stretch up front (1.5") and have no issues. Would a crate axle have allowed for the creativity?

I installed the new rear Dutchman shaft today. Now that all of the shafts are back in the Jeep I took it off the pavement today! That's a novel idea.

Man there is still a lot of snow in the hills. I didn't get far, but I was able to get in the mud, bash some snow, and drive it home and nothing broke! Not even leaking!

I measured my spindle while I had the shaft out. It is 2" in diameter (outside of thread to outside of thread) and 1 15/16 at the base of the threads. There is about an 1/8 of an inch of material. If IRCC the reading I did a few weeks ago that is a spindle that could be bored.

Dimensionally, how much of a difference in the pumpkin from a 14b to a 60? I specifically mean front to back (pinion yoke to diff cover). Does the diff cover stick back further from the tube than a 60? What I am getting at is I don't want to give any wheel base back and am not sure if the 14b would let me keep the wheel base I have. So if I use the exact same brackets I have now, would the furthest back point of that 14b sit in the same place in essence?

I read the 14b bible a while back (like last year) and don't recall the dimensions. I haven't had time to reread it.
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Unread 06-02-2013, 08:22 PM   #485
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Dude, is this a good thing.

My wife came in from the garage and said, Is that gear oil I can smell in the trash can? I planned on catching some crapola.

She said I like it, it's hot! She said it is intoxicating. She said she thought she knew the odor, but only needed confirmation. WTF! Has my wife turned into a complete Jeep chick? Wow, is all I can say.
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Unread 06-02-2013, 11:00 PM   #486
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14 bolt should have a smaller pinion in length comparied to the 60, but not enough to have the need to get another rear shaft made. A new U-joint to go from 1310 to 1350 yes, unless you have a 1350 now, or just get the 1310/1350 conversion joint.
Back of the axle near the covers, will be about the same so no given up there.

So now once you have the new axle or thinking about it, its going to need gears, locker ( or weld it ), new disc brake brackets.
I bet you will be able to use your old 1/2 ton calipers and 3/4 ton rotors. Skip that your still on 60 drums in the rear not disc yet, sorry I forgot.

1/8" is a little thin and you have to remember thats if you cut dead center, you have to take into acount the drill or cutter will wobble or walk a little. Your allmost better off if you wanted to keep the 60 and buy some 14 bolt spindles and use your 60 hubs. Or buy the after market ones, but now thats some work and cost to install and is the 14 bolt still cheaper.

I can't count how many times Ive seen folks get them self into this bind but most in the end suck it up and do the 14 bolt, is that right for you I think so, but again its your time and money I can only punch keys on a key board, lol.

Jason.
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1993 YJ 4.0 60 Front, Rear steer 60, bolth spooled, 5.38's, 700r/241 39.5 iroks and beating it like it owes me money.

And on the 8th day, God created the 14 bolt....
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Unread 06-03-2013, 07:17 AM   #487
Jeepin72
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I have a 1350 drive shaft right now. That is a good thing that the shaft won't have to be changed out. Looks like I might be building a 14b this fall.
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Unread 06-11-2013, 02:21 AM   #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepin72 View Post
Dude, is this a good thing.

My wife came in from the garage and said, Is that gear oil I can smell in the trash can? I planned on catching some crapola.

She said I like it, it's hot! She said it is intoxicating. She said she thought she knew the odor, but only needed confirmation. WTF! Has my wife turned into a complete Jeep chick? Wow, is all I can say.
Lucky!!!! My wife hates my jeep, gear oil, and all of my " nice clothes" that now have grease stains
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Unread 06-11-2013, 08:24 AM   #489
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Last night I pulled my rear drivers side hub again to take another stab at solving the persistent leak. She sat in the garage with me and was genuinely interested!
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Unread 06-11-2013, 08:06 PM   #490
tdij
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Nice... If only you liked the smell of gear oil half that much... I prefer almost anything to the smell of that stuff.

From what I know of her she seems to be a one of the good ones for sure. Good girl... Good kid... You must have done something right somewhere along the line if your biggest problem is your leaking rear end.
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Unread 06-11-2013, 09:46 PM   #491
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Yeah, gear oil is pretty noxious stuff! Thanks man. She is a good woman. She puts up with me, is a great mother, and doesn't hate my friends! She actually likes this stuff. She sat in the garage with us while we wrenched in Moab, what more can a guy ask. I couldn't ask for better son (at least for now - if he is anything like I was - I am in for some real trouble in a couple of years).

I had a co-worker come by today to take a look at the hub. This guy is on his second career. He owned his own shop in Denver for oh only 40 years. He specialized in building custom vehicles and had a keen interest in building hopped up Jeeps for ice racing. He is rebuilding two Willies right now.

And...here it comes...he said he has never seen a hub like the one I have! So we determined it is a Budd (101823). It is stamped inside the hub. He was familiar with Budd, just not this configuration. I spent the night researching Budd. All of their hub info out there has to do with HEAVY trucks (10 lug, Meritor axles, Rockwell, etc..) The wheels and front hubs seem to still be common for duallys. I still haven't out junk about the rear hubs they were making more than 30 years ago.

So here is the hub with the collar on it. Notice how the bearing cup is sitting about 1/8" above the machined surface of the hub. The collar wants to grab onto this. You can pound it on, but it comes off and I spew gear oil all over.



Another shot of the hub without the collar. The oil seal presses into the collar, so yes, it is needed. Notice the sloped sides of the machined surface of the hub fading away from the bearing cup.



Here is the collar. Notice the lack of the sloped suface. It is nearly flat. More concave than flat. Certainly not the same slope as the hub.



Here is a look and the bottom of the collar. Notice the ridge at the center of the ring. It sticks up about a 16th of an inch. The new gashes on it are from me using a seal puller to remove it.



Notice that the bottom of the collar is machined differently than the top. The bottom is the circuference of the bearing cup and the top is machined to fit the oil seal. The oil seal(s) have all fit well. I put the bearing cup in just the collar as if I was installing the race through the collar and it is an uber tight fit.



Another picture of the collar



Collar on hub with bearing cup still in place. The collar can be pressed on but comes off easily. Thus the problem.



Notice the gap between the hub and the collar. The other hub does not look like this. There is a line that travels the circumference of the hub in about the same place indicating a flush fit?



Here are the collar and the hub with the bearing cup removed. The surfaces where the bearing cup on both the hub and the collar line up seemingly perfectly. The machined surface is about 5/8" which is about the same with as the bearing cup.



Solutions:

1) Pound bearing cup through collar and into hub. The race will "grab" the collar due to the uber tight tolleance and pull it down snug.
2) Gring the collar to match the hub, tack weld, and then pound in bearing cup.
3) Continue to try and find some replacement hubs.
4) Get a new axle! (not feasible right now - at least yet).

When I got the axle there was no sign of a leak in the drum. In fact, there more indication that it hadn't been removed in a long time and was merely dusty. If you look several pages back this particular drum/spindle cause some major headaches. I knocked the collar "loose." Now what to do about seating it.

I joint a Ram Charger forum today! Maybe I will post up there tomorrow to see if those guys know. They seem to have had at least some discussion about the Budd hubs, just not my problem.
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Unread 06-11-2013, 10:18 PM   #492
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So, just had a thought and threw some calipers on the bearing cup. The OD of the inner (least tapered side - side at the bottom of the direction of pressing) measures 3.18" and the opposing OD is 3.24". That would lead me to believe option one would work. Gotta sleep on that.
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Unread 06-14-2013, 10:49 AM   #493
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I went with option one. I drove the race through the collar and filled the gap with some adhesive RTV. I will see what happens.

Odd leak thread.
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Unread 06-20-2013, 01:53 PM   #494
tdij
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How is it working?
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Unread 06-20-2013, 09:55 PM   #495
Jeepin72
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Not well. In fact horrilby!

I started a thread on another forum that actually knew about Budd hubs. As I mentioned before, Budd is the stamp on the hub. There is not alot on the great web about them, but the Dodge Ram Charger crowd was discussing them. Budd aparently built everyting from car parts for Chrysler to light rail train cars for cities. They are now Thysmen Krupp (Not sure if I spelled it right). Budd was in buisiness since the World War II era, but was bought out, and the parts numbers don't seem to be searchable.

Budd hubs ended up on everything from big rigs to light trucks. My hub was built by Budd, which was not uncommon for this era of Dodge axles. Both hubs have the same part number. Why one of them was modified (read as destroyed) by some PO over the last 30 something years, no one knows. The consensus seems to be is that it is destroyed and no matter what I do, it will not be fixed.

The bad news is that none of the Ram Charger crowd (which is the enthusiast base for this era Dodge and axle) knows anywhere to get new old stuff. In fact, one guy told me he just picks up new 60's when parts go bad since a 60 goes for about $75.00 where he is. Not the case around here!

The thing is that I am going to have to go yard searching. Aparently Dodge was using several spindle designs and bearing desings during this era. I think I need to look for a "large bearing straing spindle scalloped hub" to put it simpley.

The enging is running great, the proble is I can't go far before puking gear oil all over the place! I just want to score a hub so I can enjoy a bit of our all too short summer around here.

I will deal with the larger problem of twisted shafts at another point. If you click on the link, there is a bunch of info.
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