GTX's low rider TJ build - Page 15 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > General Jeep Forums > Jeep Builds > GTX's low rider TJ build

RIGID LED Light Blowout Sale - All Sizes, All Series, all ECGS Black Friday Sale!!6th Annual, Beat Your Wife to the Credit Card Sale!

Reply
Unread 01-10-2012, 02:36 PM   #211
gtxracer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: olyWA
Posts: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennettj13 View Post
I am eager to see your front stretch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrix View Post
If you can add one more lower adjustment in the front upper link tower you may thank yourself later.

But, since your lower links are tucked up better than mine. You may be fine.

Looks great.

You said you had the links made, can I ask how much each. Or do they have a price based on length?
Thank you, I have some good ideas for the axle side coil bucket. Doubt I'll keep the stock buckets.

I measured the separation for the front at 8", 7", 6" and drilled holes accordingly. I don't think there would be room for any more adjustment because of how close the link tower sits to the frame rail. I shouldn't need any less separation than that but thank you for the advice.

The lower links were made by http://www.hereticfab.com/ and are heat treated and cryo'ed 4130 chromo. The uppers will be standard 1.75x.120 DOM with TIG'ed inserts all built by Scott at http://www.dirt-fab.com/. Both good guys to deal with and give great pricing.

Upper links weren't that much, I think he quoted me around $200 for all 3 upper links but that was a few months back so I don't know what steel pricing is right now. Lowers were second hand from a guy with a comp buggy but he has pricing on his site. I paid the price of about two links for all four lowers but again I fell on the deal and snatched them up. It actually made everything come out better than I'd hoped.

gtxracer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-11-2012, 02:23 AM   #212
gtxracer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: olyWA
Posts: 341
I was in the garage earlier measuring and making sure I can order my upper links. I started looking the track bar and the steering box. I rotated it up...and it only moved the pitman arm 1/2" forward. Not worth the move. So I'm going to make it all work with the box in the stock location AND a flat track bar. This should be interesting...
gtxracer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-11-2012, 09:26 AM   #213
Bennettj13
Web Wheeler
 
Bennettj13's Avatar
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pendleton, IN
Posts: 5,373
So you are going to have to cut the stock trackbar mount off at the frame end right? Plus make extended coil buckets, build custom steering, and lengthen your steering shaft. That's what I was talking about the other day when I said "serious modification". Without moving your steering box, even with a flat trackbar **** gets real tight up there real quick. You physically cannot get a 3" stretch in the front without moving the steering box. You might move it 3" from what it was after you lifted it since the higher you go, the farther it pulls the axle back, but to get 3" over stock, which would be the definition of a stretch, you will have to address that box (amongst the other issues).

I'm farther along on the front end than you, even goin so far as to cut the front coil buckets off the frame completely to re-locate them, and if you go that route, you will quickly find as I did that the factory frame is shaped in such a way that moving those buckets anywhere but up is a huge pain in the ***. You don't have to take my word for it. But when I told you how hard it was the other day when you got snippy I wasn't lying. So you can take it from someone who has/is tried/trying it or you can learn the hard way. Better men than me have tried to do the very thing you are trying and failed. When I started mine, I called Blaine. He said it couldn't be done. And like you, I tried anyways, only to find out that he was right. Now I'm looking at the TNT kit pretty seriously.

When I build/fabricate something, I refuse to lose performance. If it can't be built correctly, with correct steering geometry, what's the point?

So get ****ty again if you want, try to ignore my warnings, but if you aren't so full of yourself you'll see what I'm talking about. I'm far from a web-fabricator or whatever it was you called me the other day. I have the certifications/transcript to prove it. I was simply trying to save you the hours of head banging you will get into if you try to do it anyways.

At any rate, good luck. If you can figure it out without losing any performance, or sacrificing anything, if love to see it.
__________________
::SELLING HALF OF MY JEEP::

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f33/?uid=152304

Rear Currie 4" coils - 190 shipped. (They've been sitting in the back of my Jeep for mock up but won't work out for me.)

Hornblasters Shocker S4 horn set with some extras $210 shipped. (It is not OBA, just an accessory for OBA)

"LCOG" isn't cheap and it certainly isn't easy. If you think so, you are doing it wrong. If you aren't willing to put in the effort, don't label your build "LCOG". You are just a cheap ******bag.

IndyORV- Dick and fart jokes, titties, throttle, flops, beer, tater balls, and good times.
Bennettj13 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-11-2012, 01:33 PM   #214
gtxracer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: olyWA
Posts: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennettj13 View Post
So you are going to have to cut the stock trackbar mount off at the frame end right? Plus make extended coil buckets, build custom steering, and lengthen your steering shaft. That's what I was talking about the other day when I said "serious modification". Without moving your steering box, even with a flat trackbar **** gets real tight up there real quick. You physically cannot get a 3" stretch in the front without moving the steering box. You might move it 3" from what it was after you lifted it since the higher you go, the farther it pulls the axle back, but to get 3" over stock, which would be the definition of a stretch, you will have to address that box (amongst the other issues).

I'm probably going to leave the track bar frame bracket there and build off it. Easier and cheaper for now. I'll probably have to rebuild it later if I go with a larger setup so I don't want to spend too much time on it now.

Steering shouldn't have to be custom with my setup. I have a stock drag link and ZJ tie rid, which is pretty skinny. I really don't want to replace the steering.

I'm not going to rotate or move the box. I wanted to use a Waggy pitman arm because they're 1" longer and I could get more steering out of my RCV shafts...but I'll save that for another time. Front digs with the dana 300 should help my turning radius.

Instead of cutting off the frame coil buckets (like you said, pain the ***) I'm going to cut off the axle end coil buckets and build simple new ones. Much easier and better anyhow. You'll see.


I'm farther along on the front end than you, even goin so far as to cut the front coil buckets off the frame completely to re-locate them, and if you go that route, you will quickly find as I did that the factory frame is shaped in such a way that moving those buckets anywhere but up is a huge pain in the ***. You don't have to take my word for it. But when I told you how hard it was the other day when you got snippy I wasn't lying. So you can take it from someone who has/is tried/trying it or you can learn the hard way. Better men than me have tried to do the very thing you are trying and failed. When I started mine, I called Blaine. He said it couldn't be done. And like you, I tried anyways, only to find out that he was right. Now I'm looking at the TNT kit pretty seriously.

Point taken, but I think it's very possible. I've even seen it done...that's why I'm skeptical. No offense to Blaine, he IS an innovator...but he is not my god. He may be god to some people here, but I don't base my life or my jeep on anyone but myself. Again....not trying to step on anyone's toes. Oh and I'm not a fan of TNT.

When I build/fabricate something, I refuse to lose performance. If it can't be built correctly, with correct steering geometry, what's the point?

I agree completely.

So get ****ty again if you want, try to ignore my warnings, but if you aren't so full of yourself you'll see what I'm talking about. I'm far from a web-fabricator or whatever it was you called me the other day. I have the certifications/transcript to prove it. I was simply trying to save you the hours of head banging you will get into if you try to do it anyways.

web wheeler is what I called you

At any rate, good luck. If you can figure it out without losing any performance, or sacrificing anything, if love to see it.

Thanks for the pointers. I appreciate it.
Mine in blue. I know you're trying to save me the headache but I wouldn't be a very good engineer if I didn't try to make something work that shouldn't.

1.35" tube, seems to fit well



Again, NOT rotating or moving the box at all, going for the 3" stretch still. Track bar will be fun but not impossible.
gtxracer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-11-2012, 02:54 PM   #215
Bennettj13
Web Wheeler
 
Bennettj13's Avatar
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pendleton, IN
Posts: 5,373
You are still missing some points I've made, but since you have your mind made up, I'll just sit back and watch.

Please post some pics or a link to the build where there is a 3" stretch over stock without running hydro or moving the box. Not that I doubt you, but I'd like to see it for myself. I'd love an explanation of how its done if you cant show pics.
__________________
::SELLING HALF OF MY JEEP::

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f33/?uid=152304

Rear Currie 4" coils - 190 shipped. (They've been sitting in the back of my Jeep for mock up but won't work out for me.)

Hornblasters Shocker S4 horn set with some extras $210 shipped. (It is not OBA, just an accessory for OBA)

"LCOG" isn't cheap and it certainly isn't easy. If you think so, you are doing it wrong. If you aren't willing to put in the effort, don't label your build "LCOG". You are just a cheap ******bag.

IndyORV- Dick and fart jokes, titties, throttle, flops, beer, tater balls, and good times.
Bennettj13 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-11-2012, 03:05 PM   #216
Hendrix
TJOTY 2013
 
Hendrix's Avatar
1997 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: FT Myers, Florida
Posts: 4,723
Also interested....

I tried for days to get the clearace needed. Problem I ran into was track bar to pitman ARM contact. And track bar to draglink contact. Everything looked doable till you put the driver tire in the air and the passenger on the floor as low as i could get it. Then BOOM... track bar hits diff, then pitman ARM then , oh yeah once I got clearance there the track bar would hit the tie rod.

It's real fun. I think a shorter pitman arm would get a little more room. But, you will lose turning radious. I think it would just have been easier to move the steering box forward. When everything was back together I gained maybe 2" over what i had with the old Rokmen arms set at 1" over stock. So did I stretch it. Maybe.... But, I did max out my DS in length. That tells me something moved forward. My tire no longer contacts the fender at full lock and bump. So, the wb on my rig is 104.5. And before the front mid ARM is was 102.0 flat.

Carry on I will be watching.
Hendrix is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-11-2012, 09:10 PM   #217
gtxracer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: olyWA
Posts: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennettj13 View Post
You are still missing some points I've made, but since you have your mind made up, I'll just sit back and watch.

Please post some pics or a link to the build where there is a 3" stretch over stock without running hydro or moving the box. Not that I doubt you, but I'd like to see it for myself. I'd love an explanation of how its done if you cant show pics.
Here you go, it's a Dana 60 but it's all the same. Stock box location, stock box and arm. It's slightly different but the approach is still the same. The only thing I can see getting in the way is if the Y section of my steering (where the drag link and tie rod come together) will get too close to the track bar mount on the axle.

Take from this thread - http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=591360


Quote:
Originally Posted by tweba99 View Post
Here is the axle painted and ready to be installed and we noticed while installing the new u-joints that I have a hair line crack in one of the ears of my inners so I will need to get some chromollys before the first ride :grinpimp:

I ended up with them as close as I could get them in line:

The panhard has a straight shot to the to the frame:


Front end sitting on its own with RE 4.5 springs and almost 3" of stretch:
gtxracer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-11-2012, 10:46 PM   #218
gtxracer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: olyWA
Posts: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrix View Post
Also interested....

I tried for days to get the clearace needed. Problem I ran into was track bar to pitman ARM contact. And track bar to draglink contact. Everything looked doable till you put the driver tire in the air and the passenger on the floor as low as i could get it. Then BOOM... track bar hits diff, then pitman ARM then , oh yeah once I got clearance there the track bar would hit the tie rod.
Those are my concerns as well but I will do everything I can to make sure everything clears.

Got a chance to do some work today. Just ordered one of these-
http://www.hipoparts.com/products/NA...ering-Box.html



The TJ pitman arm is about 5.25" center to center, maybe a little bit more. This new pitman arm is beefier and 5" eye to eye. Should clear up a some room but have very little affect on my turning radius. For reference, the waggy pitman arm is 6" eye to eye but I would have to move the steering box. Maybe another time if I decide I want more steering.

This thing fell off...


And then I made the tube smooth


Then bud light made an appearance


It was a bit tall, 1" to be exact. This would have built in a 1" lift to the axle. I decide I didn't like that and took it down 1". Made some gussets for it while I was at it.


Cut it out with some plasma action


Cut out the spring retainer from the stock coil bucket


Lined it up, tacked it on. I want to shift it more to the outside before final welding since it will try to drive in when articulating


Then cut out the other one...


Started cutting off the other side coil bucket and my plasma stopped arcing. Hmmm....swirl ring cracked in half and disintegrated. Longevity is sending me a few more tomorrow, hope to have them by tomorrow. Until then, I'll have to resort to my new sawzall
gtxracer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-12-2012, 12:15 AM   #219
YJacob
Member
 
YJacob's Avatar
1988 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Enumclaw, WA
Posts: 264
Build looks good I wish I was handy as you! Let alone have all the stuff, its no fun fabbin up stuff infront of my college apartment in the rain! Also noticed the DOD sticker on the windshield what branch you in? Im actually in the guard, 161 Infantry A co. Anyways build looks great and I could get some more beer boxes if you wanna help me with my 8.8 swap
YJacob is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-12-2012, 08:17 AM   #220
Bennettj13
Web Wheeler
 
Bennettj13's Avatar
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pendleton, IN
Posts: 5,373
Not trying to argue or clutter your thread lol, but there are several problems with the build you posted. And while he may have moved the axle, it's not stretched 3 inches. My 37's have almost that much approach angle now, and my junk was sitting just about back to stock up front. With 39.5's, he should be at 0 degree approach with 3" over stock. Just sayin. I don't doubt he moved the axle 3", but it wasn't 3" over stock. Good job on the coil buckets. I still have to get some tube and make mine.
__________________
::SELLING HALF OF MY JEEP::

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f33/?uid=152304

Rear Currie 4" coils - 190 shipped. (They've been sitting in the back of my Jeep for mock up but won't work out for me.)

Hornblasters Shocker S4 horn set with some extras $210 shipped. (It is not OBA, just an accessory for OBA)

"LCOG" isn't cheap and it certainly isn't easy. If you think so, you are doing it wrong. If you aren't willing to put in the effort, don't label your build "LCOG". You are just a cheap ******bag.

IndyORV- Dick and fart jokes, titties, throttle, flops, beer, tater balls, and good times.
Bennettj13 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-12-2012, 10:12 AM   #221
Bennettj13
Web Wheeler
 
Bennettj13's Avatar
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pendleton, IN
Posts: 5,373
I guess the more I think about it, it doesn't matter. Of course you want a 0 degree approach for a crawler, but without 40's it's pretty tough to do. So as long as you get close, maybe tire size in the future will fill that gap. That's kinda what I had resigned myself to for the future of my own build. I know I won't get it on my 37's, but I want to get as much as I can, it's part of my not giving up performance OCD schtick that I have. I'm just trying to help by showing another side of things. Good luck either way.
__________________
::SELLING HALF OF MY JEEP::

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f33/?uid=152304

Rear Currie 4" coils - 190 shipped. (They've been sitting in the back of my Jeep for mock up but won't work out for me.)

Hornblasters Shocker S4 horn set with some extras $210 shipped. (It is not OBA, just an accessory for OBA)

"LCOG" isn't cheap and it certainly isn't easy. If you think so, you are doing it wrong. If you aren't willing to put in the effort, don't label your build "LCOG". You are just a cheap ******bag.

IndyORV- Dick and fart jokes, titties, throttle, flops, beer, tater balls, and good times.
Bennettj13 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-12-2012, 11:05 AM   #222
Imped
Web Wheeler
 
Imped's Avatar
2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 19,543
Coil buckets look good man. I've been eyeing that pitman arm......very nice.
__________________
OlllllllO
Float Test Build
IndyORV
Imped is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-12-2012, 02:42 PM   #223
gtxracer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: olyWA
Posts: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasaki4 View Post
Build looks good I wish I was handy as you! Let alone have all the stuff, its no fun fabbin up stuff infront of my college apartment in the rain! Also noticed the DOD sticker on the windshield what branch you in? Im actually in the guard, 161 Infantry A co. Anyways build looks great and I could get some more beer boxes if you wanna help me with my 8.8 swap
Thanks! I remember when all I had was a dorm room...me and my buddy would rebuild engines and axles in there. Didn't make the dorm manager too happy but we didn't care. Oh and replacing a fender in the parking lot is considered major surgery...

I'm TACP at Camp Murray. It's a bit of drive from you but I'll help with what I can. Cleared my PMs too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennettj13 View Post
Not trying to argue or clutter your thread lol, but there are several problems with the build you posted. And while he may have moved the axle, it's not stretched 3 inches. My 37's have almost that much approach angle now, and my junk was sitting just about back to stock up front. With 39.5's, he should be at 0 degree approach with 3" over stock. Just sayin. I don't doubt he moved the axle 3", but it wasn't 3" over stock. Good job on the coil buckets. I still have to get some tube and make mine.
Thanks. Maybe not a whole 3" (he said it was almost 3") but based on his coil bucket locations on the axle he at least got 2". I can squeeze out the remaining stretch from the rear axle if I can't get a whole 3" but I am going to try.

What's the tube for? Coil retainer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennettj13 View Post
I guess the more I think about it, it doesn't matter. Of course you want a 0 degree approach for a crawler, but without 40's it's pretty tough to do. So as long as you get close, maybe tire size in the future will fill that gap. That's kinda what I had resigned myself to for the future of my own build. I know I won't get it on my 37's, but I want to get as much as I can, it's part of my not giving up performance OCD schtick that I have. I'm just trying to help by showing another side of things. Good luck either way.
No worries, thanks. I may go 37s in the future but I'd rather go straight to one tons and 40s. 37s are a pain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
Coil buckets look good man. I've been eyeing that pitman arm......very nice.
Thanks! I've been eyeballing the pitman arm too...for about 2 years. Glad they're still in stock. Still wish I could have used the waggy arm.

I'll have some time in the shop tonight...girlfriend works late. Now I can spend time with my other girlfriend
gtxracer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-12-2012, 05:54 PM   #224
Bennettj13
Web Wheeler
 
Bennettj13's Avatar
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pendleton, IN
Posts: 5,373
The tube is for the round portion like on your stock one you kept. I planned on capping it with a plate and welding a nut to the underside for my bumps.

And I'm running jk 44's, I'm good for 37's. but I agree. For 40's, it's go big or go home.
__________________
::SELLING HALF OF MY JEEP::

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f33/?uid=152304

Rear Currie 4" coils - 190 shipped. (They've been sitting in the back of my Jeep for mock up but won't work out for me.)

Hornblasters Shocker S4 horn set with some extras $210 shipped. (It is not OBA, just an accessory for OBA)

"LCOG" isn't cheap and it certainly isn't easy. If you think so, you are doing it wrong. If you aren't willing to put in the effort, don't label your build "LCOG". You are just a cheap ******bag.

IndyORV- Dick and fart jokes, titties, throttle, flops, beer, tater balls, and good times.
Bennettj13 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-13-2012, 12:23 AM   #225
gtxracer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: olyWA
Posts: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennettj13 View Post
The tube is for the round portion like on your stock one you kept. I planned on capping it with a plate and welding a nut to the underside for my bumps.

And I'm running jk 44's, I'm good for 37's. but I agree. For 40's, it's go big or go home.
Ah, I see. I planned on doing the same coil retainer technique. If I had jk44s I'd probably run 40s with some upgraded shafts/rcvs and call it good. I keep wondering how my 8.8 would like 40s if I had a full case locker and a Super 88 kit.

Today's update - bear with me, these pictures suck due to lighting but they show what's going on.

Bolted up the steering and stuffed the suspension to show what happens and how tight it is in there. Lucky for me I have some tricks up my sleeve for the track bar and pitman arm.

steering at ride height


stuffed, notice the stock track bar mount = has to go




Started making the new track bar frame bracket. The track bar will be about 32.5" long for anyone wondering.


Came out like this so far. Today's sponsor is Blue Moon.


Mocked up. Came out well but I want it lower and think I will plate the frame at least on the outside and bottom. If not I'll design it with the same material I used for my suspension frame brackets.


Hacked off the other coil bucket on the axle and it took forever without the plasma. Took some pictures from the side so you can see why they were cut off. Overall, much easier to do it this way as long as you have a plasma cutter.




Some overall thoughts and observations from today and recently:

#1 - The rear track bar is a gigantic heartless *****. It's off...but I hate that damn thing. The stock track bar frame bracket can eat me as well.

#2 - The passenger coil mount is perfect. It needs a little trimming but then the steering will clear it completely. The shocks will mount on the back of the new coil buckets and should come out very well.

#3 - Because of the "kick" of the pitman arm and steering box, it shoves the steering right into the track bar basically. This makes getting a billet pitman arm a very good idea. A billet arm can be bent on a press safely to have the steering pointed straight down instead of kicked back.

Ordered the last of the suspension parts from Dirt Fab today-

2 x 1-1/4 johnny joints w/jam nuts to complete the suspension
3 uppers, 1.75x.120 DOM, TIG'ed inserts
1.5x.250 track bar with TIG'ed inserts

I'll be using some Ruff Stuff 7/8" 3/4 bore heims for the track bar. I had them already and figured I'd try them out.,We'll see how I like them.

For those that asked, arm lengths, eye to eye, right now:

rear lowers 31.25"
rear uppers 32.25"
front lowers 28.75" (need to check this)
front uppers 28.75"

Just how I wanted it.
gtxracer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.