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JEEP Gear Change Packages From ROCKRIDGE 4WD. We Are DIFFAlloy usa heavy duty ball joint kitsROCKRIDGE4WD Introduces a NEW Jeep Wrangler JK *led* tail

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Unread 03-10-2014, 11:23 AM   #766
Cavasar
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1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Fort Worth/College Station, Texas
Posts: 2,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdren4100@cyb View Post
Do me and you a favor. PM Mrblaine and ask him about a HP30 build and about the sleeves and gussets. I think he just put a HP44 rockjock in his wife's jeep so ask him about it.

Let us know.
Ok I PM'd Blaine but haven't heard back yet. Also messaged aw12345 and he said
Quote:
Originally Posted by aw12345

Some sort of truss that goes across the axle would do more for it than sleeving the long side axle tube.
Are you going to jump it, run the Hammers or something like that? If not the stock HP housing is adequate for most wheeling situations. RCV shafts will take care of U joint breakage and pulling ball joints out. Seems to me stock housing with some skids welded on to protect the lower control arm mounts on the axle will do you just fine.
I am sure you would not mind a few bucks to spend elsewhere
That being said it's looking like my HP30 will have:
-OE ball joints
-U bolt yoke 1310
-Lockrite lunchbox
-New UCA bushing
-UCA gusset
-Knuckles & U bearings
-RCV shafts
-4.56 gears
-HD LCA mounts

Shipped for $2812, I'm getting the lockrite because I still want a lunchbox and this way I can just add gear oil and bolt in. I plan on selling the Aussie for $150 to get part of that back. Waste of money, maybe, but this way the new axle is 100% new and ready to go. Aussie could probably use new springs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyvanwie View Post
But I think it has a point where it goes beyond flexing. And that's when the TRE will break. At least that's what I understand.
This is from Necro,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Necromancer_tat View Post
The ultimate has a forged heat treated tie rod that Mr Blaine designed that is kinda like spring steel, it will deflect when hit hard, but it bounces back into shape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Necromancer_tat View Post
There is a trade off though, instead of bending the tie rod, you could end up snapping the steering arm off the knuckle, or bending the drag link.


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Unread 03-10-2014, 01:45 PM   #767
holdren4100@cyb
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Ask aw12345 about his yellow jeep and the HP30 he has in it and how it is build. Also how long he has had it without it braking.

Also I would call them on the knuckle and u-bearing cost. Unit bearing are 100.00 a pc.
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Unread 03-10-2014, 02:38 PM   #768
RWKHausSupply
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Why are you doing RCV's? And a Super weak open carrier?

You Need to revise that to include a full case locker.

I have seen More carriers break, than I have seen a shaft break. Ujoints break yes, but typically thats because the owner doesnt regularly check for play/wear and they are toast.

Really should read:
-OE ball joints (Hope you mean spicer?)
-U bolt yoke 1310 (IF you do a new yoke with Ubolts DONT over tighten them)
*-Yukon Grizzly locker (485$)
*-Currie Upper Johnny Joint replacement kit
*-not needed with above
*-Why new knuckles? And unit bearings you have now might be better then sub 100$ new ones. GO Timken if replaced.
-RCV shafts
-4.56 gears
*-LCA mount skids
*-ARB D30 Cover (its keyed on to the diff opening and helps prevent the center from flexing so much.
*-Sleeve it

Dont know what that is costing ya, but you sure its worth it to not just go D44R High Pinion at this point? You can Never sell a D30R for what its worth. You can Always sell a D44R for more then it seems worth later.
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Unread 03-10-2014, 03:14 PM   #769
tyvanwie
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This may sound stupid, and it might be, but it seems the ultimate may be better for a lighter wheeler because you won't hit it hard enough to snap, and it won't bend.
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Unread 03-10-2014, 04:42 PM   #770
holdren4100@cyb
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I have had a currie steering set up for maybe 5 years and never bent the tierod. But I did snap the BJ on the drag link at the Pittman arm. There is a difference between building your jeep for the hammers and the other trails most run.
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Unread 03-10-2014, 10:11 PM   #771
Cavasar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWKHausSupply View Post
Why are you doing RCV's? And a Super weak open carrier?

You Need to revise that to include a full case locker.

I have seen More carriers break, than I have seen a shaft break. Ujoints break yes, but typically thats because the owner doesnt regularly check for play/wear and they are toast.

Really should read:
-OE ball joints (Hope you mean spicer?)
-U bolt yoke 1310 (IF you do a new yoke with Ubolts DONT over tighten them)
*-Yukon Grizzly locker (485$)
*-Currie Upper Johnny Joint replacement kit
*-not needed with above
*-Why new knuckles? And unit bearings you have now might be better then sub 100$ new ones. GO Timken if replaced.
-RCV shafts
-4.56 gears
*-LCA mount skids
*-ARB D30 Cover (its keyed on to the diff opening and helps prevent the center from flexing so much.
*-Sleeve it

Dont know what that is costing ya, but you sure its worth it to not just go D44R High Pinion at this point? You can Never sell a D30R for what its worth. You can Always sell a D44R for more then it seems worth later.
-Ball joints are Spicer
-I've heard U bolts are better than straps as long as they don't get over tightened
-I could go detroits F/R
-not really worried about the UCA bushing
-I just figured it was good to have extra knuckles/ u bearings. I could add Tikmen from them for $95 more than used
-RCVs
-4.56
-LCA skids already ordered
-Arb cover is a no go, I've read that it hits the trac bar
-really think sleeving is necessary? so far I've heard about even for sleeving/not

If I went the the linked HP44 posted on the previous page w/ chromos (not rcv or sleeved) it'd be ~$1000 more than the 30 (add another $650 for RCVs)


Quote:
Originally Posted by tyvanwie View Post
This may sound stupid, and it might be, but it seems the ultimate may be better for a lighter wheeler because you won't hit it hard enough to snap, and it won't bend.
That was kind of my thought too. Maybe we're both stupid, or just young.
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Unread 03-10-2014, 10:58 PM   #772
holdren4100@cyb
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Some old post from Mrblaine.

1. For the TJ or XJ 30, I'd like to see a few examples of why you think they are needed? You do know that both of those are recent products and we've been running the High and Low pinion 30's in both of those rigs on 35's for a very long time with relatively few issues.

Personally, I believe both solve a problem that doesn't exist with enough or anywhere near enough frequency to justify their existence.


Problems with axles become well known in short order due to how fast information finds it way to the internet. Not always accurate, but generally very very fast. Take the 8.8 from the Explorer and ask about it's problems and how to solve them. In short order you will quickly get answers about it's width, offset pinion, disc brakes, what years it's from and why you need to weld the tubes to the diff casting.

Ask the same question about a HP 30 and no one says that you need to beef up the long side tube to keep it from breaking, flexing, bending, or otherwise needing much other than to run it as is.

The only reason a tube that goes inside the JK front axle even exists is due to how quickly folks bolted on tires that are a tad too large and then promptly cracked some of the earlier long side axle tubes in half.

It was cheaper and easier to slide a tube inside another tube than to do it right and either re-tube it with 3" tubes, or make a good truss for it.

2. Inner C gussets are a waste of time on the TJ and XJ inner C. By the time they do you any good, you've already ruined the inner C by egging out the upper balljoint hole far enough to lose the press fit.

3. We have ruined at least 3 inner C's that I'm aware of in our group or extended group. All were done doing recoveries on rigs with broken parts in the front that require lots of winch work, tugging and towing to get them back to camp.

None of them had bent C's, just egged out holes for the upper balljoint which caused them to lose the press fit.
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Unread 03-10-2014, 11:51 PM   #773
Cavasar
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Location: Fort Worth/College Station, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holdren4100@cyb View Post
Some old post from Mrblaine.

1. For the TJ or XJ 30, I'd like to see a few examples of why you think they are needed? You do know that both of those are recent products and we've been running the High and Low pinion 30's in both of those rigs on 35's for a very long time with relatively few issues.

Personally, I believe both solve a problem that doesn't exist with enough or anywhere near enough frequency to justify their existence.


Problems with axles become well known in short order due to how fast information finds it way to the internet. Not always accurate, but generally very very fast. Take the 8.8 from the Explorer and ask about it's problems and how to solve them. In short order you will quickly get answers about it's width, offset pinion, disc brakes, what years it's from and why you need to weld the tubes to the diff casting.

Ask the same question about a HP 30 and no one says that you need to beef up the long side tube to keep it from breaking, flexing, bending, or otherwise needing much other than to run it as is.

The only reason a tube that goes inside the JK front axle even exists is due to how quickly folks bolted on tires that are a tad too large and then promptly cracked some of the earlier long side axle tubes in half.

It was cheaper and easier to slide a tube inside another tube than to do it right and either re-tube it with 3" tubes, or make a good truss for it.

2. Inner C gussets are a waste of time on the TJ and XJ inner C. By the time they do you any good, you've already ruined the inner C by egging out the upper balljoint hole far enough to lose the press fit.

3. We have ruined at least 3 inner C's that I'm aware of in our group or extended group. All were done doing recoveries on rigs with broken parts in the front that require lots of winch work, tugging and towing to get them back to camp.

None of them had bent C's, just egged out holes for the upper balljoint which caused them to lose the press fit.
So basically it's pointless to sleeve/gusset Cs (if I understood that correctly). One reason I need new u bearings is because I plan on selling my LP to a buddy so he can swap out his bent 30. Then again, I guess he could use his old bearings.

It's looking like mid may I should have enough funds to order everything. Probably going to get 35s before I order the axle and just do in town driving so I can sell the 33s and put that towards the axle. Don't think it'll suck tooooo bad for staying under 50mph.
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Unread 03-11-2014, 08:18 AM   #774
holdren4100@cyb
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Keep your knuckles & unit bearings. The other guy can use his. Also keep your axles as spares.

I would get cromo axles instead of RCV. That will save you some money.

Keep the steering linkage you have till you start bending it,then upgrade.
The tierod flip is also a good mod.
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Unread 03-11-2014, 08:19 AM   #775
RWKHausSupply
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Well you know you can get a D44 (TJ style LP though) with detroit, chromoly shafts(on 35's RCV really are over kill compared to a good 4340 shaft kit and super joints), spicer ball joints, geared, and ready for your outer knuckles & unit bearing/brakes for about 2500. And 2899 with ARB.

Just saying... It seems like your going to put alot in to a very weak carrier and then still only have a D30 gear set and 27 spline side gears.
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Unread 03-11-2014, 09:02 AM   #776
Driver831
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Just to add my .02$

I ran a D30 on my TJ with 35's and 37's (pushing my luck yes) but never bent a tube, or had a c-gusset set up installed. Heck I never even sleeved it either. Yes I did break a U joint every now and again but thats the weak spot on the dana 30 with larger tires(well and the ball joints and such). Improving that joint system with an RCV can make the chance of destroying your R & P that much more likely. Needless to say I had a Detroit Tru-Trac in mine and 4.56 gears on 37's. so every day I played with fire. but besides a u joint.. It never let me down! lol Maybe I was just one of the exceptions to the rule I dunno

if that helps any.. if not.. I take back my 0.02$!!
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Unread 03-11-2014, 09:29 AM   #777
Cavasar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holdren4100@cyb View Post
Keep your knuckles & unit bearings. The other guy can use his. Also keep your axles as spares.

I would get cromo axles instead of RCV. That will save you some money.

Keep the steering linkage you have till you start bending it,then upgrade.
The tierod flip is also a good mod.
I already ordered the Ultimate kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by RWKHausSupply View Post
Well you know you can get a D44 (TJ style LP though) with detroit, chromoly shafts(on 35's RCV really are over kill compared to a good 4340 shaft kit and super joints), spicer ball joints, geared, and ready for your outer knuckles & unit bearing/brakes for about 2500. And 2899 with ARB.

Just saying... It seems like your going to put alot in to a very weak carrier and then still only have a D30 gear set and 27 spline side gears.
I'd rather have an HP to get the driveshaft up than a LP44. The Arb + compressor would cost an additional $600 or so and that's one thing I don't see being worth the extra cost. I will keep my current knuckles and u bearings an re use them. Everyone has told me to stay at 27 spline so I can use my old shafts as spares.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver831 View Post
Just to add my .02$

I ran a D30 on my TJ with 35's and 37's (pushing my luck yes) but never bent a tube, or had a c-gusset set up installed. Heck I never even sleeved it either. Yes I did break a U joint every now and again but thats the weak spot on the dana 30 with larger tires(well and the ball joints and such). Improving that joint system with an RCV can make the chance of destroying your R & P that much more likely. Needless to say I had a Detroit Tru-Trac in mine and 4.56 gears on 37's. so every day I played with fire. but besides a u joint.. It never let me down! lol Maybe I was just one of the exceptions to the rule I dunno

if that helps any.. if not.. I take back my 0.02$!!
I keep hearing people saying that the R&P is the weakest link when you add RCVs, but I can't wrap my head around that. Using chromos/RCVs doesn't change the R&P any. If the R&P breaks on RCVs wouldn't it have broken just the same on chromos?
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Unread 03-11-2014, 09:56 AM   #778
AngryTJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavasar View Post
I keep hearing people saying that the R&P is the weakest link when you add RCVs, but I can't wrap my head around that. Using chromos/RCVs doesn't change the R&P any. If the R&P breaks on RCVs wouldn't it have broken just the same on chromos?
What most mean by that is the ujoint will likely be the weakest link with chromos whereas the RCVs transfer some of that stress to the ring and pinion since there is no ujoint. Snapping a Ujoint is an inexpensive and easy fix unlike replacing the r&p
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Unread 03-11-2014, 01:20 PM   #779
Driver831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryTJ View Post
What most mean by that is the ujoint will likely be the weakest link with chromos whereas the RCVs transfer some of that stress to the ring and pinion since there is no ujoint. Snapping a Ujoint is an inexpensive and easy fix unlike replacing the r&p
exactly.

Also a U-joint you can fix on the trail.. a R & P.. well.. Ive seen it done, but it was nuts lol
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Unread 03-11-2014, 06:14 PM   #780
nmtj
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I just had a hp built so maybe my opinion is of some value to you.

I did not truss, sleeve or gusset the c's. My reasoning was based on mr. Blaines posts and I couldn't justify the cost for a $100 housing. I will have a lockrite in mine and we'll see how the carrier does. If Imped didn't break his carrier I'll be fine. My plan is to wheel it hard and if it explodes I will upgrade to something else or buy another housing.

Also, I looked over at least 10 hp housings at the junk yard and none of them had the vacuum disconnect. Years ranged from 89-98. I pulled my housing for just over $100, but I'm not sure if you have a self serve junk yard.
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