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Unread 07-14-2013, 10:01 PM   #46
SeanB95YJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knobturner75 View Post
I've read your woes with this swap. I'm sorry to hear this. You were making awesome progress. I don't remember if you mentioned this, and I know it's a simple mistake, but did you check to make sure the firing order is correct?
LOL... yeah, I actually checked that 3x and my dad double-checked it after my 3rd check... it's correct.
I got really excited at first, having it fire up (on starting fluid) on the 3rd day and running on its own (although rough) by the end of day 3 or early in day 4... I guess too much luck was on my side

I knew the physical part of the swap (old motor out, new one in) would be quick (2-3 days tops)... I was actually thinking it would take close to a whole week just to get wiring figured out and the darned thing to start at all... I never expected to have it start on its own power by the 3rd or 4th day, so I guess these recent issues are making up for my extra-smooth start.

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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Blue"]Sean B. - Schenectady, NY - 95 YJ, 350/700r4/NP241, JB Shorty SYE, 8.8 rear, 2" BDS, 1" homebrew shackles, Daystar 1" BL, TJ flares, 35x12.50 General Grabber AT2 on 15x10 Bart D-Truckers, Polyshield polycarbonate windshield, HD over/under crossover steering
[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]swap/build thread: [url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/after-almost-4-years-finally-my-own-build-swap-thread-1542284/[/url][/COLOR][/FONT]
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Unread 07-15-2013, 08:10 AM   #47
kingcat400
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ok so you removed the egr. how did you compensate for that? you have to tune out the egr or you may have issues. it sounds like the issues doesn't start till it is warmed up. i am thinking you may be having issues when the computer try to open the egr. did you remove anything else from the tbi harness?
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Unread 07-15-2013, 09:27 AM   #48
DpDave
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Just had a conversation, and your jeep came up. My best diagnostician went immediately to fuel pressure. Check what your pressure is supposed to be, and what the fuel pump is putting out. Might be looking at installing an aftermarket pump and regulator set up...

Good luck with it!
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Unread 07-15-2013, 09:39 AM   #49
SeanB95YJ
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no, the stumbling/backfire is pretty much from the moment it starts regardless of temperature.

I've removed EGR the same way I've done on many other OBD1 vehicles without any issue (in fact, all other removals I've done resulted in smoother idle and better response)
anyway, I removed the EGR valve, plugged/blocked the vacuum port off the TBI, and turned the base of the old EGR valve into a manifold blockoff - I removed the diaphragm, and filled the old base with weld, cut a rubber gasket and glued/sealed it with gasked adhesive, then bolted the old (now filled-in) EGR base back to the manifold.

the headers I'm running (Summit SS Block Huggers) don't have an EGR provosion anyway, and I couldn't reuse the original manifolds

I know I can get a new chip burned from TBIchips with the EGR tuned out... and I'll probably do that down the road more for performance gains, but not til I get it running right otherwise, and maybe have a little extra HP tuned in the process (stage1 or 2) , but with OBD1 for the most part I shouldn't NEED the retune JUST to remove EGR.
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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Blue"]Sean B. - Schenectady, NY - 95 YJ, 350/700r4/NP241, JB Shorty SYE, 8.8 rear, 2" BDS, 1" homebrew shackles, Daystar 1" BL, TJ flares, 35x12.50 General Grabber AT2 on 15x10 Bart D-Truckers, Polyshield polycarbonate windshield, HD over/under crossover steering
[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]swap/build thread: [url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/after-almost-4-years-finally-my-own-build-swap-thread-1542284/[/url][/COLOR][/FONT]
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Unread 07-15-2013, 09:46 AM   #50
SeanB95YJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DpDave View Post
Just had a conversation, and your jeep came up. My best diagnostician went immediately to fuel pressure. Check what your pressure is supposed to be, and what the fuel pump is putting out. Might be looking at installing an aftermarket pump and regulator set up...

Good luck with it!
Thanks Dave... I didn't mention earlier in the thread - I borrowed a FP gauge after I swapped in a new 88 Blazer pump (what my motor was from), and was reading something like 16-18 at the inlet. specs for TBI call for 9-13 (or 9-15?) and I'm assuming with the regulator rebuild I did (new spring, diaphragm and gaskets) I should be right in there with just a little bit bypassing back down the return line. injector spray seems good (nice fine cone, consistent pattern)
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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Blue"]Sean B. - Schenectady, NY - 95 YJ, 350/700r4/NP241, JB Shorty SYE, 8.8 rear, 2" BDS, 1" homebrew shackles, Daystar 1" BL, TJ flares, 35x12.50 General Grabber AT2 on 15x10 Bart D-Truckers, Polyshield polycarbonate windshield, HD over/under crossover steering
[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]swap/build thread: [url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/after-almost-4-years-finally-my-own-build-swap-thread-1542284/[/url][/COLOR][/FONT]
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Unread 07-15-2013, 06:21 PM   #51
DpDave
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Hmmm... The only other things we could come up with were the MAF/MAP sensor, whichever your application has. We have seen those get cheezy without throwing codes. Admittedly, though, that's a reach... I'll bring it up again tomorrow.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 06:35 PM   #52
SeanB95YJ
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well I did put a meter on the MAP and pulled vacuum through the port... I didn't have a gauged vacuum source so I don't know the exact hg, but I was getting fairly steady voltage change with increasing vacuum pressure.

I just picked up a timing set, gasket and puller this evening - that's the plan of attack this weekend.
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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Blue"]Sean B. - Schenectady, NY - 95 YJ, 350/700r4/NP241, JB Shorty SYE, 8.8 rear, 2" BDS, 1" homebrew shackles, Daystar 1" BL, TJ flares, 35x12.50 General Grabber AT2 on 15x10 Bart D-Truckers, Polyshield polycarbonate windshield, HD over/under crossover steering
[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]swap/build thread: [url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/after-almost-4-years-finally-my-own-build-swap-thread-1542284/[/url][/COLOR][/FONT]
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Unread 07-18-2013, 12:54 PM   #53
The_Goob
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Maybe you could take a video of it (trying) to run so we can hear and see what its doing better :P
Everything I can think of has been mentioned already
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Unread 07-18-2013, 01:09 PM   #54
SeanB95YJ
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I actually did think of that....but didn't have the proper equipment with me at the time. all I had was my ipod touch and my dumbphone... phone was ok for pics but doesn't do video.. my ipod doesn't do pics OR vids (gen 3 I think), but my son's does (gen 4) but he (and his ipod) were at Great Escape (local amusement park) with my wife.
Dad's picking me up after work tomorrow and bringing me down for the weekend. I'll bring my actual video camera with me this time... I already have a new timing set (AND a new timing light) so I'll get that changed out and see if it's any better... if not, then I'll take some vids and put it up on youtube or something.

thanks
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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Blue"]Sean B. - Schenectady, NY - 95 YJ, 350/700r4/NP241, JB Shorty SYE, 8.8 rear, 2" BDS, 1" homebrew shackles, Daystar 1" BL, TJ flares, 35x12.50 General Grabber AT2 on 15x10 Bart D-Truckers, Polyshield polycarbonate windshield, HD over/under crossover steering
[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]swap/build thread: [url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/after-almost-4-years-finally-my-own-build-swap-thread-1542284/[/url][/COLOR][/FONT]
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Unread 07-18-2013, 01:14 PM   #55
kingcat400
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ok that was just a thought. tbi fuel psi is 13psi for stock motors.

!!!!!!!DO NOT GO TO TBICHIPS.COM!!!!!! you will get screwed. if you want to get a chip tuned for it shoot me a pm i will get you in the right direction.
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Unread 07-18-2013, 01:47 PM   #56
SeanB95YJ
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ok good to know.... tbichips was the only ones I knew of to just sell a chip already burned... I've seen all sorts of info for DIY prom burning, buying "blank" chips, sockets, adapters, cables, etc... by the time I was done (plus the learning curve of doing it) I'd be better off buying a chip burned by someone else.
for the hot-rodders, I can see constantly wanting to tweak with it to squeeze every bit of HP they can... but as it is, I'm doubling the HP from what I had, and I know it gets real expensive, especially for the TBIs to try and achieve 350-400+ HP... stock is rated at 210. I'm guessing with the couple small things I did (hotter coil, better exhaust) might have bumped it to 215-220... if I can get a solid reliable 225-250 that would be awesome

I sent TBIchips an email with what I was looking for... basically remove EGR and maybe a small HP goose and the quote I got back didn't seem too bad considering what I've seen more commercial chips & modules sell for.

is it bad product?
is your source another company? or a DIYer who has gotten good at it and does them on the side now?

at any rate, I first need to get it running the way it should before I get involved in tweaking
thanks
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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Blue"]Sean B. - Schenectady, NY - 95 YJ, 350/700r4/NP241, JB Shorty SYE, 8.8 rear, 2" BDS, 1" homebrew shackles, Daystar 1" BL, TJ flares, 35x12.50 General Grabber AT2 on 15x10 Bart D-Truckers, Polyshield polycarbonate windshield, HD over/under crossover steering
[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]swap/build thread: [url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/after-almost-4-years-finally-my-own-build-swap-thread-1542284/[/url][/COLOR][/FONT]
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Unread 07-18-2013, 09:34 PM   #57
kingcat400
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i have a chevy pickup running a 350hp tbi vortec motor with a healthy cam, bored tbi, larger injectors and headers.. i originally went with tbichips for the same reason as you. well after buying many parts as instructed by him and sending him money to do the tune an him making 5 chips i was left with a truck i couldn't drive, that had metal on the plugs from running to lean and an f'ed up tranny. i am not the only one to have these issius from him.

after further research i found my current tuner who had the truck up and running on the first chip and ran better than it ever did with the chips from tbichips and the trans shifted properly. i am not on the 3rd chip from him and the truck is wicked.

here is a link to contact him. just make a login and send him a pm or make a thread. http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...1776-TBI-Chips
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Unread 07-18-2013, 09:38 PM   #58
kingcat400
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also i would recomend getting an aldl cable and downloading tunerpro rt for free that way you can plug in to the jeep and see what is going on with it. this could also help you find the issue. eagle can help you with both of those things.

this is what i see when i plug in my truck to my laptop.

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Unread 07-27-2013, 08:35 PM   #59
SeanB95YJ
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well fixing one thing seems to bring another issue to light LOL
been a while since I've updated... too frustrated I guess but I'll try to bring the thread up to current

found what I thought was a little bit of play from when I manually turned the crank to when the rotor started turning... Didn't think it was huge, but given the 80k or so, figured I'd replace the timing set. Did that last weekend (also sold my old 2.5)
Got the timing cover off and man that chain was LOOSE... both sides of the chain had enough slop that it would deflect almost 2x the thickness of the chain... I didn't try beyond lifting by hand, but I bet if I used a screwdriver to pry it, I probably could've removed the chain without removing the gears. Got the new chain/gears on without issue and got the front all buttoned back up...

went to start it, had my timing light all ready, seemed to start easier but idled rough and seemed to want to die - but I was able to keep it running by playing with the gas pedal... but as soon as I stepped out to run around to the front to set the timing it died on me... tried to restart, cranked for about 20-30 seconds then heard an awful grinding then a ping ping sound. looked underneath and saw a bolt on the floor - one of the starter bolts broke. pulled the inspection plate from the trans and the teeth on the flexplate were all chewed about 1/2 way or deeper, so I got to order a new flexplate. That put things off for another week.

When I ordered the flexplate, I also ordered a new pinion drive gear for the starter (Proform hi torque), Those came in this past week so back here to Dad's last night after work.
Went out this morning and got to work - had the old flexplate out and new one installed in about an hour and a half - all going good so far.
put the starter on the bench and took it apart to replace the drive pinion - about an hour on that
put the starter back in, checked clearances, all was good

went to start - cranks like a champ now, even better than when I first fired it up... but that's all it's doing - cranking.

I have spark from the coil, spark on all 8, injectors are firing, verified I have all the plugs/wires going to the correct cap posts - everything I can think of is in place where it SHOULD start... my only thought now is that maybe the dizzy is out a couple teeth (or more?) so that's the plan for tomorrow - pull dizzy, turn a tooth, reconnect, try to start, repeat as necessary until (hopefully) the thing starts.

have another wiring gremlin that's really throwing me off... with the lights off and turn the key it cranks as you'd expect it to... but if I have the light switch on (either parking lights or full headlight) it won't crank at all. I must have a wire (or ground) crossed somewhere, but I figure since it cranks with the lights off, I should at least be able to start and drive it with the lights off. Whatever this light issue is, I don't think it is related to the main problem above because I WAS able to start it before, but didn't have any reason to try cranking with the lights on - and I didn't do anything relating to wiring since before the timing chain replacement.

it just keeps getting better LOL
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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Blue"]Sean B. - Schenectady, NY - 95 YJ, 350/700r4/NP241, JB Shorty SYE, 8.8 rear, 2" BDS, 1" homebrew shackles, Daystar 1" BL, TJ flares, 35x12.50 General Grabber AT2 on 15x10 Bart D-Truckers, Polyshield polycarbonate windshield, HD over/under crossover steering
[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]swap/build thread: [url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/after-almost-4-years-finally-my-own-build-swap-thread-1542284/[/url][/COLOR][/FONT]
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Unread 07-28-2013, 09:23 PM   #60
SeanB95YJ
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another unproductive day.... well, I did a lot of stuff, but none of it amounted to anything.

I de-loomed the harness and traced EVERY wire coming from the ECM. double-checked voltages, tested the coil - primary and secondary resistance exactly where it should. pulled the dist cap and checked the pickup coil. resistance within spec range and voltage while cranking where it's supposed to be. put an LED tester on the ignition module - signal appears to be pulsing fine. put a test wire/spark plug on the cap posts one at a time - spark good there so I'd say cap & rotor check out. all plugs good and all plug wires check out on the meter.

I'm really at a loss at this point - I'm seriously considering putting an order in for intake, carb and HEI dizzy and trash the ECM and all it's annoying sensors
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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Blue"]Sean B. - Schenectady, NY - 95 YJ, 350/700r4/NP241, JB Shorty SYE, 8.8 rear, 2" BDS, 1" homebrew shackles, Daystar 1" BL, TJ flares, 35x12.50 General Grabber AT2 on 15x10 Bart D-Truckers, Polyshield polycarbonate windshield, HD over/under crossover steering
[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]swap/build thread: [url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/after-almost-4-years-finally-my-own-build-swap-thread-1542284/[/url][/COLOR][/FONT]
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