[Rivka]

so i just put in a Painless 7 Cirkit Boss this model has 3 always hot fuses and 4 ignition hot ones, supposedly...
and have a question about what behavior i should be seeing from the portion that is supposed to be Ignition dependent hot.

it works by taking one of the wires built in for this purpose and running it to a fuse that is a known ignition dependent feature, i choose the radio.
It tells you to piggy back onto the hot side of that fuse with this wire and give a little metal adaptor to do that

ok so here is what i have, did i do this right?

• I'm assuming that when they say attach to the hot side they mean the side that lights up a test light even with the key in the off position?
• when i did and then tested the wires coming out of the new fuse box, all 7 were hot (lit up tester)
• so i am making the assumption that that means all the wires have power which is not what was wanted, not until i turned on the key
• so i moved the wire that was going to the old fuse box over to the other side of the existing fuse i was using, the side that did not light up
• back in the new box all wires still light up, just the same way

what simple basic piece of electrical understanding am i missing here??

[SirGCal]

The #70107?

Ok, there should be one large wire (10AWG if I remember) that goes to the battery. This wire will feed both the always hot side, and also the ignition relay. Now the wire that you send to the fuseblock's ignition signal wire should be the trigger wire for the relay. The other trigger wire for the relay will go to ground.

Now, what you SHOULD see is, when the key is turned to the run position, the ignition relay should trip causing the ignition fused circuits to become active. And the key is removed or off, these circuits should go cold. If they are always on, your trip wire is in the wrong spot (radio probably isn't keyed, not that one anyhow...). If they are always cold, you've got a bad connection somewhere.

Be sure you do NOT over-draw the circuits this is designed for...

As for the ignition; one side of a fuse should never be different than the other. It's a fuse, not a switch. If one side is hot and the other is not, then the fuse is poped. They want it on the outside of the fuse just so that the circuit itself is protected by the fuse.

Here's an easy test to test the wires themselves... Take the 'connect to fusebox' wire off and leave it off. The 4 ignition wires SHOULD go cold and not show power on the output side. If not, there's another problem somewhere. Suspect the relay. Remove relay from wiring harness and test again. If good, replace relay. However, if as expected, the output is cold with the one wire removed, connect the wire to 12V, the relay should trip and the wires output again becomes hot. So then you know the circuit is working as intended. Now you just have to test the fusebox for a keyed circuit. Look for one that with the ignition off, the fuse shows cold. then turning the key, it shows hot. Then, pull the fuse, turn the key on, note which side is hot now (without the fuse). and install the device on the not-hot (cold) side of the fuse so that the fuse protects it. Now it should be working.

[Rivka]

yeah i got the water proof version so mine is a #70207 but i think they are completely the same except for the sealant and cover

i have the red 10G going to the batt positive and the ground going to a good ground

As for the ignition; one side of a fuse should never be different than the other. It's a fuse, not a switch. If one side is hot and the other is not, then the fuse is poped. They want it on the outside of the fuse just so that the circuit itself is protected by the fuse.

question? I'm checking the places that the fuse plugs into right?
when checking a fuse spot for hot, when you pull the fuse out and have the car off some have both slots that light up my tester and some just have one side that does. i was assuming that those with one were the ones i was looking for?

your testing suggestions make good sense, i am going outside to play with the jeep and see what can come of some smart poking around, i did this install kinda late last night and could have missed something that simple thinking might of avoided.

[SirGCal]

If you take the fuse out, and both sides still have power.. something else is amis...

But no, with the key off, and the fuse out. one side will have power (on a constant power circuit) or neither side will have power (on a keyed circuit). You should rarely, if ever have both sides have power with the fuse removed (only a dual-fused circuit or high capacitance circuit should do this... doubt the jeep has any but honestly I havn't looked).

[Rivka]

thanks for the good info, i think i figured out that i was using a always hot circuit and am going to tackle it this morning for good
I'll let you know how it works out...

[jpittman]

You have probably figured it out by now but in case you haven't. I taped (pink trigger wire) into the right side of the cigarette lighter fuse which is only hot with the ignition on.

[Rivka]

so i have come to the conclusion that there is no ignition switched fuses in the external fuse box in the engine compartment. Any one know other wise??

jpittman, i assume you are referring to a fuse that is behind the glove box?

Does anyone know an easy pass through the firewall on the passenger side? I will have to splice in another length of wire it was hardly long enough to get to the external fuse box, but whatever needs to be done...

[Rivka]

Yeah i WON!!!!!!

it seems like there is only one pin in the whole PDC that is ignition switched...

it is one of the pins of a relay labled C4 in the FSM, it's in the relay for the Rear Window Defogger.
It was a bit of a struggle to tap in to it and i would still like to find a cleaner more professional way to do it, for now this is working just fine, can anyone think of a reason i should not run things this way???

here is the parts of the FSM that i used to find the solution in the end:

[opiv]

I spliced the pink wire into the AC compressor clucth relay wire after checking the FSM but it seems like the one you found should work too. There are many options for ignition switched leads.

[jpittman]

Rivka,

Yes, I am referring to the fuse behind the glove box.

I have seen people putting the wire thru the passenger side where there is a black line with the A/C lines going thru the foam on the firewall. They follow the path of the black line, comes out behind the glove box.

[Rivka]

I'm hitting radio shack today for two 8 count terminal strips, one jumping strip and a grounding wire.

i was planing on doing a terminal strip with one side all linked together and run to a ground and the other side for attaching all of the grounds from the things i add now that i have power

and thought to do another strip to replace the job of butt splice or soldering each accessory to the new box in the first place. this is nice wiring that i would hate to mess up over time as some of the things i connect it to will undoubtedly change or have to be rewired as i change other things in my jeep.
Question, is there any down side of a terminal strip for doing these connections? just attaching all of the painless wiring to one side and jump of the other side as i connect each feature? I know not much is as good as a soldered and sealed splice but is there any concern with added resistance doing this way? seems really clean and upgradable/changeable.

Rivka

[Scrambler82]

Did I read that you were suppose to attach the wire to the Radio Fused Circuit and chose to run the wire to the engine compartment ?

Why not attach the wire to the Fused side of the Radio Circuit or to the Ignition Hot wire behind the glove compartment ?

To check to see if the radio circuit is ignition hot turn on the ignition, turn on the radio, leaving the radio on turn off the key, if the radio goes off then it is ignition hot and should work OK.

Where ever you run the wire, make sure there is a fuse between the power and the Circuit Boss Relay.

Does the 10ga wire that goes to the battery have a fuse near the battery end ?

[sparkeep]

Originally Posted by NnF

Did I read that you were suppose to attach the wire to the Radio Fused Circuit and chose to run the wire to the engine compartment ?

Why not attach the wire to the Fused side of the Radio Circuit or to the Ignition Hot wire behind the glove compartment ?

To check to see if the radio circuit is ignition hot turn on the ignition, turn on the radio, leaving the radio on turn off the key, if the radio goes off then it is ignition hot and should work OK.

Where ever you run the wire, make sure there is a fuse between the power and the Circuit Boss Relay.

Does the 10ga wire that goes to the battery have a fuse near the battery end ?

The radio has both ignition switched and always on power. The majority of the radio only gets power when the key is on. But some features get power all the time (i.e. CD eject and clock as well as memory settings are retained). You have to use the correct wire that goes to the radio!

[Rivka]

Originally Posted by NnF

Did I read that you were suppose to attach the wire to the Radio Fused Circuit and chose to run the wire to the engine compartment ?

Never said that , I simply said that i had on my first attempt attached the wire to a radio fuse i found in the PDC, the directions state that you need to attach the wire to the hot side of any ignition dependent circuit

Why not attach the wire to the Fused side of the Radio Circuit or to the Ignition Hot wire behind the glove compartment ?

Because i did the install in the engine compartment, there is more room there and the unit is weatherized and has a cover. So i had to run the two wires (one for power too) from the driver side where i attached the new panel to the passenger side where the battery and PDC is, going through the fire wall too just seemed too much.

To check to see if the radio circuit is ignition hot turn on the ignition, turn on the radio, leaving the radio on turn off the key, if the radio goes off then it is ignition hot and should work OK.

Yeah i fully understand that and knew for a fact that my radio was ignition dependent, the problem came when i found the second fuse marked radio and did not realize that it sent the radio its constant power for running the clock and remembering station presets. It was really puzzling at fist and then after it dawned on my what was going on it was a big funny "duh" moment

Where ever you run the wire, make sure there is a fuse between the power and the Circuit Boss Relay.

Painless does not include nor instruct a fuse to be there in the installation. Since they are so complete in every other detail i am running with the assumption that they have a reason for not doing it and will it keep it installed per instructions

Does the 10ga wire that goes to the battery have a fuse near the battery end ?

Yes, it was included along with everything else need down to the smallest detail, it is a really great set up

[Scrambler82]

You a handle on it, good luck.

I purchased two of the three circuit units and will be hooking up my radio equipment with them.