Need recommendation for Sub/Amp/Speaker - Page 6

SmokEaterHD · 02-05-2009, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ticconi

I'm sure kicker has good equipment and that amp looks nice but that amp is going to cost more than my whole Stereo!! If this was going in something with more security I would be spending a lot more money. If I were going for SQ over SPL I would be spending more money. My jeep is going to have the top down very often when I move to Florida so that being said even if I have an alarm if they want it they're gonna take. I have had 2 $1,000 systems stolen before. Let's say god forbide someone takes it i'm out $90. Sucks but nowhere near sucking as bad as someone stealing my $400 amp and $150 speaker. I appreciate your input though. Also your quoting a headunits max power not rms. As far as I was told RMS on almost all headunits is 16-22 and that's what you want to go by. I'm sure you system sounds great, it should you spent alot of money. But like I said before I want to spend most of my money on other areas of my ie. suspension, wheels, tires.....

My apologies, I didn't see your budget. You can find deals out there still though. Ebay has several of those amps for under $200. I don't pay retail for my equipment due to the fact I am a distributor for Kicker, Sony, and MTX. CEA rating for RMS will be in the mid teens to low 20'something watts on the stereo, I believe Sony's is somewhere around 21-23 watts. But keep in mind RMS is "instantaneous power" which means that is what you will get as soon as the unit is powered up.

gily25 · 02-05-2009, 01:37 PM

Considering theft and everything else a wrangler goes thru buying your original equipment used is a good school of thought. This way you haven't invested a lot you can spend more on making your sub box and if it gets wet and dies then you don't have to worry too much about it.

The sub you'll be using is a good everyday sub to start with, if it dies the volume of the sub box will work with virtually any entry/mid-level sub on the market. Make sure that you use a volume calculator to make your box. Additionally the 2.5" for excursion (between sub and floor) should be fine with that sub. Don't make your box square tho...always go with a rectanlge or "shape" for optimal performance.

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/box_wizard.asp

They also have a link to help you with wiring the sub:

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/woofer_wizard.asp

ticconi · 02-05-2009, 04:18 PM

good links thanks!

**SirGCal** · 02-05-2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ticconi

wait sirgcal did you mean no to doubling up on the mdf?

YEs, I meant no need to double up the MDF.

yamaguy01 · 02-05-2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ticconi

yeah this is one of my close friends, we were just bsing at the bar and i told him i was putting in stereo and he was like hey i think i still have mine still. So if something doesn't work he will take them back I do hear what your saying though. As far as Alpine maybe something was wrong with your headunit because I have never heard anyone say a bad thing about them and I have only heard that Kenwoods were crap. I appreciate the input though.

I've had several new Alpine head units in the past. I'm not saying they are bad units. It just seems to me in they don't allow the speakers to reproduce the mids like they should. I thought I was crazy too until I unpluged my Alpine and put in a Kenwood. It is possibly that some setting was off but for the same thing to happen on ALL my Alpine head units is a little far fetched. They make some of the best looking, longest lasting units; hands down. But in recent years I have been a little disappointed with the sound reproduction. That being said, you are putting this in a Jeep and probably are not going out to win any sound competitions. I wasn't in competition either but I had these in nice quiet interior cars/trucks where it was more noticable. Best of luck in whatever you choose!

Dave

ticconi · 02-05-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yamaguy01

I've had several new Alpine head units in the past. I'm not saying they are bad units. It just seems to me in they don't allow the speakers to reproduce the mids like they should. I thought I was crazy too until I unpluged my Alpine and put in a Kenwood. It is possibly that some setting was off but for the same thing to happen on ALL my Alpine head units is a little far fetched. They make some of the best looking, longest lasting units; hands down. But in recent years I have been a little disappointed with the sound reproduction. That being said, you are putting this in a Jeep and probably are not going out to win any sound competitions. I wasn't in competition either but I had these in nice quiet interior cars/trucks where it was more noticable. Best of luck in whatever you choose!

Dave

nicely put thanks dave

ticconi · 02-06-2009, 08:39 AM

ok here is a question. Should I worry about woofer displacement? The net internal volume is supposed to be .75 should I add like .10 for the sub? I can't seem to find anything on google in regards to this. Or would it make that big of a deal if I didn't. Also Polyfill, I have read start at filling the box about 10% and see how it sounds and go from there. Do you stuff it in there or fill it in loosely. I would probably screw the 10% and fill it like half full to begin with. Let me know your guys' input on this thanks!

spife7980 · 02-06-2009, 09:47 AM

i would add in the .1 for displacement of the driver but it really isnt that much. close enough is good enough for me. and poly fill is for if you have to make a box too small it ricks it into thinking it is largr by dampening the back wave or something. the general rule is 1 lb of fill to 1 ft^3 and it should be loosely filled. if its packed its just taking up space. but if its the right size you shouldnt need any

**SirGCal** · 02-06-2009, 10:07 AM

The specs for exact driver displacement can be found by the manufacturer, but unless your going for competition perfection, the box doesn't have to be that exact. But yea, subtract that from the volume you've calculated to see the effective size of your box plans.

For example, if your box was 14x12x8 externally using 3/4" MDF, the box would have an internal volume of 0.494 ft^3 (12.5x10.5x6.5). If the sub ate up 0.06ft^3 of that, the resulting box would be 0.434 ft^3. Polyfill then would make the box act larger. Just a little would take the harshness out, I usually use at least a little bit, especially in a square box since it helps soften the wave pattern, and filling the box (loosely, as said about 1lb per cubic foot) could make it act as though it were 3-5% larger. If you build the box too large or perfect, obviously then do not use any unless it needs tuned slightly for the vehicle's acoustics.

**SirGCal** · 02-06-2009, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yamaguy01

I've had several new Alpine head units in the past. I'm not saying they are bad units. It just seems to me in they don't allow the speakers to reproduce the mids like they should. I thought I was crazy too until I unpluged my Alpine and put in a Kenwood. It is possibly that some setting was off but for the same thing to happen on ALL my Alpine head units is a little far fetched. They make some of the best looking, longest lasting units; hands down. But in recent years I have been a little disappointed with the sound reproduction. That being said, you are putting this in a Jeep and probably are not going out to win any sound competitions. I wasn't in competition either but I had these in nice quiet interior cars/trucks where it was more noticable. Best of luck in whatever you choose!

Dave

Wow, you're the first person in my life to ever to rate Kenwood's electronics over Alpines. I will simply say that you had to have something wrong with the unit's settings or your installation or your ears are just very insensitive or frequency reproduction is way off of the normal just causing you to hear that much different. All are possible.

However, Kenwood has much worse electronics than Alpine. If that wasn't the case, I would not have been replacing 10 Kenwoods to 1 of ever other brand out there. One example was a guy that came in with a $1400 Kenwood stealth unit a few years ago complaining about his bass. Muddy as hell. Swore he wanted new amps and subs since this new unit couldn't possibly be the cause. I ran some testing quickly and told him the unit was indeed the cause. I tried my best to tweak the unit to it's maximum but couldn't get it past that wet-fart stage. (this particular unit was exceptionally poor, even for Kenwood). I finally showed him on the scope how I knew it was the unit. He sent it back for an exchange. I received the new one, same result, though better. I asked him to let me show him something; slapped in a mid-level $300 Alpine that did more than his overpriced Kenwood could ever dream. Set it up properly and boom, crisp, clear and accurate bass (even with his sad excuse for bass equipment honestly).

My guess is you probably never set them up properly. Perhaps had the Alpine internal crossovers set too high or EQs set to flat or just never set the XM control system (not the sat radio). They (Alpine) do not fake any of the signal like Kenwoods do. Out of the box, the K's Boost the signal to try to compensate for the automobile's native inaccuracies. (this was why the Kenwood sounded so muddy) Alpines won't do that until you tell them exactly how to do that. So they will sound flatter out of the box until you tweak them. They are not going to try to guess a setting for every vehicle. Same goes for Eclipse and Clarion. Even Sony, another one of my 'never use' brands doesn't do that.

Still, you are entitled to your opinion. If you like Kenwood over Alpine, more power too you. However their electronics being superior, they are not. Not even close in their highest equipment. Although I heard that they had started to remove their sound shaping from their equipment, but they did it for so long, I haven not even considered Kenwoods for many years so I do not keep up with them any longer. They might be peachy (or at least much much better) today but it's like being spit on by a camel too much. Eventually you just stay away from it. I would build a competition rig with Dual or Jenson (who's product has actually come around a ton in recent years) well before ever going to Kenwood again. But that is MY opinion.

And as for competition rigs; saying you won't win sound competitions in a Jeep; poppycock!

http://www.sirgcal.com/2ktj/

God I was fat in this picture... And UGLY! Shesh.. Someone just photochop me out of my own picture would ya?

ticconi · 02-06-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirGCal

The specs for exact driver displacement can be found by the manufacturer, but unless your going for competition perfection, the box doesn't have to be that exact. But yea, subtract that from the volume you've calculated to see the effective size of your box plans.

For example, if your box was 14x12x8 externally using 3/4" MDF, the box would have an internal volume of 0.494 ft^3 (12.5x10.5x6.5). If the sub ate up 0.06ft^3 of that, the resulting box would be 0.434 ft^3. Polyfill then would make the box act larger. Just a little would take the harshness out, I usually use at least a little bit, especially in a square box since it helps soften the wave pattern, and filling the box (loosely, as said about 1lb per cubic foot) could make it act as though it were 3-5% larger. If you build the box too large or perfect, obviously then do not use any unless it needs tuned slightly for the vehicle's acoustics.

ok thanks, god i hate this weather it's too cold at night for me to even go out and measure everything. Supposed to warm up in the next few days but this is exactly why im moving to florida....

**SirGCal** · 02-06-2009, 03:36 PM

almost 80 degrees here today... windy as heck though. wanted to take the Honda out on a cruise but it's a bit blustery.

ticconi · 02-06-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirGCal

almost 80 degrees here today... windy as heck though. wanted to take the Honda out on a cruise but it's a bit blustery.

Salt in the wound there....

Ok so I have been toying with the idea of not buying that woofer and only the amp. IF and I mean if I were to buy a new sub what should I get. The amp is 200x1 4ohm 300x1 2ohm. I wouldn't spend more than $100. Would want the most bang for my buck. Let me know what you guys think...

**SirGCal** · 02-06-2009, 07:03 PM

Sorry.

for an amp like that, there are tons.. pretty much depends on what your ears like. You could get a 4-ohm single coil sub and run it direct (cheapest option) or a DVC 4-ohm sub and run it 2-ohms.

For example, an MTX Thunder4500 T4510-04 or
Infinity Reference 1050w or MTX JackHammer JH4510-04 or (the list really does go on and on and on...) or JL Audio 10W1v2-4 would run just fine. Any 4-ohm 200-300W RMS sub. Or 4-ohm DVC, again huge list...

spife7980 · 02-06-2009, 07:40 PM

or a pair of rockford p1s ( http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_8758_Rockford+Fosgate+Punch+P1S410.html ) or kicker CVs ( http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_3447_Kicker+05C104.html ). something small and single 4 ohm coils rated at 150 a sub if you want some more surface area. but i think you might lose some sound quality (IMO) and it would require a box 2x the size. but both those listed are a good match for the amp and should be 100-120 new.