[bman9089]

Ok guys.

Most of you know me by now. I'm trying to get the balls to build the box I designed, but I'm completely unexperienced with this. I've done a bit of woodworking before. Small amounts though.

I figured I'd post up a new thread about the supplies needed to make a good quality box.

Here's what I have so far:

3/4" MDF standard.
liquid nails
caulk gun
tape measure
pencil
clamps (what size?)
carpet (where to buy?)
rubberized undercoating (can't find it online at homedepot or lowes )
speaker terminals (where to buy?)
handles?? or not worth it?
polyfill - maybe around 5 lbs. (speaker pods and front stage will need it as well)

Stuff I'm unsure about:

Screws - length? type?
saw - what is the best to have for this? ($70 - $80 max. Also keep in mind that my box has lots of angles at the edges to angle different boards so I'd need something to take care of that. Will a simple table saw work?)

drill bit - what size?

nuts - that the subs screwes go into, forget what they're called.

Any other useful tools that I'll need?

And can someone explain to me step by step how to do it? (screw first, then glue, etc.)

Any tips on not screwing up angles would be helpful as well. That's the part I'm MOST worried about.

Oh yeah, here's my finished box design. I'll have the laptop next to me the whole time. All of my measurements are in this file (google sketchup, check it out).





I have 2 weeks off for christmas so I'm hoping to start this next week maybe. I'm pretty nervous about it since I've never done anything like this before, so as I said, any help and tips are are appreciated.

I'd like to get a shopping list going so I can head over to home depot or lowes!

Thanks Guys!

Special thanks to (SirGCal, Ron4x4, Mylt1, PJL, Delta9, sorry if I missed anyone. You guys have helped me out a lot!)

If you notice ANYTHING about the box that needs to be changed or tweeked, please let me know. The only thing I'm real nervous about with the box is the electrical hitting the sub. I have ~1 - 1 1/4" of room so I think I'll be alright.

[Keil1016]

Originally Posted by bman9089

Ok guys.

Most of you know me by now. I'm trying to get the balls to build the box I designed, but I'm completely unexperienced with this. I've done a bit of woodworking before. Small amounts though.

I figured I'd post up a new thread about the supplies needed to make a good quality box.

Here's what I have so far:

3/4" MDF standard.
liquid nails - don't use
caulk gun
tape measure
pencil
clamps (what size?)
carpet (where to buy?)?) can’t help ya here, I always putty up my screw holes and paint my boxes with a cool texture paint that matches the interior, also if you play in the rain you could coat the paint with a waterproof sealant of some sorts. If the carpet gets wet, you’ll have a mess
rubberized undercoating (can't find it online at homedepot or lowes )
speaker terminals (where to buy?) www.crutchfield.com
handles?? or not worth it?
polyfill - maybe around 5 lbs. (speaker pods and front stage will need it as well) - any store really

Stuff I'm unsure about:

Screws - length? type?
saw - what is the best to have for this? ($70 - $80 max. Also keep in mind that my box has lots of angles at the edges to angle different boards so I'd need something to take care of that. Will a simple table saw work?)I’d suggest a table saw, jigsaw, circular saw combo, surprisingly for me, it’s easier to cut a straight line on an odd shaped piece of wood with a circular or hand saw than on a table saw.


drill bit - what size? doesn’t matter exactly, just as long as it is I’d say ohhh half the diameter of the screws you are using, this is VERY important, trying to drive screws in this long without pilots holes will lead to splitting, trust me on this one.

nuts - that the subs screwes go into, forget what they're called. never used these, I just drive the screws straight into the wood surrounding the speaker try to avoid running the screws back out, get it right the first time, and don’t forget your pilot holes here too. The non-hardening rope caulk really helps seal the deal here. It may be a bit messy to remove your sub in the future, but it’s not that hard to take off really.

Any other useful tools that I'll need?

And can someone explain to me step by step how to do it? (screw first, then glue, etc.)

this is why you need clamps, and this is how I do it…

1. glue both edges you want to assemble
2. put them together, clamp em down w/ your carpenter clamps
3. drill your pilot holes right away
4. run in your screws, you can now remove the clamps.
** the screws “help” keep the box together, but the real bonding agent is the glue.


Any tips on not screwing up angles would be helpful as well. That's the part I'm MOST worried about.

Oh yeah, here's my finished box design. I'll have the laptop next to me the whole time. All of my measurements are in this file (google sketchup, check it out).





I have 2 weeks off for christmas so I'm hoping to start this next week maybe. I'm pretty nervous about it since I've never done anything like this before, so as I said, any help and tips are are appreciated.

I'd like to get a shopping list going so I can head over to home depot or lowes!

Thanks Guys!

Special thanks to (SirGCal, Ron4x4, Mylt1, PJL, Delta9, sorry if I missed anyone. You guys have helped me out a lot!)

If you notice ANYTHING about the box that needs to be changed or tweeked, please let me know. The only thing I'm real nervous about with the box is the electrical hitting the sub. I have ~1 - 1 1/4" of room so I think I'll be alright.

Other tips:

Don’t use liquid nails either if you were using it to assemble the box or seal the joints. Use the wood glue to assemble and run a bead of indoor / outdoor silicone caulk that dries flexible, you can find it at any hardware store. In my experiences this yield a much stronger, and better sounding box than liquid nails.

Besides, wood glue is much easier to clean up.

If you use the silicone caulk to seal the inside joints, DO NOT put your speakers into the box for at least 24 hours. Let the silicone dry thoroughly, if you don’t, fumes released during the curing process can damage your speakers.

as stated in the guide below, double up the panel which will hold your speakers, this just goes towards building a strong box that wont have any strange resonance.

and finally, when building a box, your side panels, or any panels that run vertical... should be brought in about 1/2 to 3/4 of a inch from the edge so you have a "lip" if you will, never have a vertical or end panel screw into a horizontal panel from the end, if that makes sense. this makes the box stronger on the corners. I can post a pic of the box i made for a single 10" that fits in my TJ



here is the guide i learned from, i'd suggest following it closely and adapting to create your box


http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/learningcenter/car/subwoofers/box_building.html

good luck, pm if ya have any further questions.

[Delta9]

Originally Posted by Keil1016

Other tips:

Don’t use liquid nails either if you were using it to assemble the box or seal the joints. Use the wood glue to assemble and run a bead of indoor / outdoor silicone caulk that dries flexible, you can find it at any hardware store. In my experiences this yield a much stronger, and better sounding box than liquid nails.

Besides, wood glue is much easier to clean up.

If you use the silicone caulk to seal the inside joints, DO NOT put your speakers into the box for at least 24 hours. Let the silicone dry thoroughly, if you don’t, fumes released during the curing process can damage your speakers.

as stated in the guide below, double up the panel which will hold your speakers, this just goes towards building a strong box that wont have any strange resonance.

and finally, when building a box, your side panels, or any panels that run vertical... should be brought in about 1/2 to 3/4 of a inch from the edge so you have a "lip" if you will, never have a vertical or end panel screw into a horizontal panel from the end, if that makes sense. this makes the box stronger on the corners. I can post a pic of the box i made for a single 10" that fits in my TJ



here is the guide i learned from, i'd suggest following it closely and adapting to create your box


http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/learningcenter/car/subwoofers/box_building.html

good luck, pm if ya have any further questions.

I agree with the wood glue and silicone

Edit: The box looks good, any chance on removing the 3rd brake light so you don't have to make the cutout for the electrical, I threw mine away a long time ago.

[bman9089]

Originally Posted by Delta9

I agree with the wood glue and silicone

Edit: The box looks good, any chance on removing the 3rd brake light so you don't have to make the cutout for the electrical, I threw mine away a long time ago.

Yeah...I need to think about that. I have a LoD bumper that I might be putting on after christmas so I don't think I can use the 3rd brake light anyways. I'll keep that in mind. It would really help out with the design and sound not having that wedge there.

[SirGCal]

I always use liquid nails. I like it. It's a little more expensive than glue obviously but it's thicker and you don't need to follow it up with silicone if you put it on properly. Plus it can be sanded once dry so cleanup is no problem. Actually, I don't tend to get it everywhere like I do with runny old wood glue. But this is just a personal preference.

For carpet, check upholstery stores in your area. Some of them will likely carry trunk or stretchy carpet good for covering boxes.

Rubberized undercoating you get can at Walmarts in the auto department. PolyFill at Wamarts in the sewing department.

For 3/4" MDF, I usually use 1.5" Drywall screws (1.25" for 5/8". This was a typo on my first post. Just FYI. Screws 2x the width of the material). Use a drill bit just smaller than the shaft of the screw. I honestly forget what size. I'd have to go out in the garage and look... And it's all the way across the room... Here's a good test though. Drill and test a few in scrap wood. If it strips out easily, it's too big. If the screw starts to bind or the drill struggles putting it in, it's too small.

Speaker Terminals - I never use. They are a weak point in the box. If I do use something of that nature; it would be like these. Never the plastic rings. Dayton BPA-38G Picture

Use Tee-Nuts and machine screws, not drywall screws, to hold in the sub itself. You can also get these at home depot. There are pictures of them in my in-seat writeup.

Saws, I have a collection of tools. But if I had to do it with just one. I'd use a jig-saw simply cause it can make any complicated cut I would need. You can use a strait-edge clamped to your piece to use as a guide to make a strait cut. If I could choose two tools, one would be a table saw or at least circular saw simply cause they will make even straiter cuts. I got an inexpensive Ryobi collapsible table saw (BTS20R) after repeatedly not liking the Craftsman saws for one reason or another. But even then it was $230. But a great saw for small projects. Tools aren't cheap though. You might be able to get a hand-held circular saw and a hand-held jig saw for $80.

As for the angles... If you don't want to trust your initial cut for the angle, here's a little trick that just takes laybor time. Add maybe 1/4" or so depending on the specifics of the angle. Make sure you have enough left over. Cut it strait. Then use a hand planer to shape the edge down properly by marking with a pencil both sides so you know where to stop and slowly shaving it down. It's not the fastest way but if you're unsure of your sawing skills, it can get the job done.

How I make an edge. I use a compass down the edge of the piece to mark the edge of the material with a line showing the width of the entire material's edge (like 3/4") so I know exactly the room I have to work with. Then I put the pieces together and clamp them so they do not move. Then I mark a center line to line up the screws. Then 2" away from an edge (or more) I start the first screw. I put a screw every 4". Start with drilling the holes. Make sure they are deep enough to hold the entire screw (accept maybe 1/8" of the tip or less) and don't stop too short. Mark the drill bit with some tape to know when to stop. Drill strait into the end-piece of wood. (if it's an angle, the screws follow strait to the wood they are going into longways, not the piece they go across first. If you want to counter-sink the holes, now is a good time. Take that into account when planning screw depth. Then separate the pieces and add the liquid-nails to one piece first making sure both pieces are clean of any shavings, dust, etc. I use a few rivet shafts to re-find the screw holes on each end and then add screws to the remaining. This step isn't necessary as if you cut everything properly, they should find themselves quite easily, but I'm extremely anal. Once you have a few screws in place, the would should be secure. Doing it this way also saves the drill bits from glue damage and keeps extra shavings out of between the material which could possibly cause leaks.

Otherwise, set them together with wood glue on both pieces. Clamp them in place, then mark as before, drill and glue. This is easier but I do not use liquid nails doing it this way because it is even harder on the drill bits than glue. If you don't mind using a few bits per project, or you break em anyhow, then this wouldn't matter either. This method is faster but you do have to follow up the seems again with something (silicone) or they can leak. Both methods are proper ways to do it, one is just faster, one is stronger but neither would result in a worse box. The stronger here is overkill. I just like working with the thicker nails than the thinner glue.

The nails method; with a 'squishy' amount of liquid-nails often gets every possible seal you'll ever need. (I haven't used silicone on the last bunch of boxes I've done as the nails has sealed it properly.) If you still do have a leak, silicone is always good insurance. Rubberized undercoating also helps to insure no leaks and I coat the inside of the boxes with it. At least the seems. Plus, once the nails is dry (overnight) you can sand it or plane it down like wood. But I like it's thickness. And doing the nails method, you don't have to worry about stressed corners either (edges can be perfectly smooth instead of inset). The wood will destroy itself well before the nails ever lets go.

On any large areas, use internal braces to help reinforce and reduce any flex (resonance) it might have. (your box probably won't have a problem but I would put one brace between the speakers say 6" tall or so to simply reinforce the front-back largest pieces to each other. Not the full height of the box so that the speakers stay in one chamber instead of two. Just a structural support. Other than that your plans look very good.

And for the speakers you're looking at running, for 3/4" MDF, I wouldn't worry about doubling up on the face piece (that holds them). The size of this box and the thickness of the material you're using and the potential of the speakers, resonance shouldn't be a problem. You can if you want, all it will do is lower the internal volume of the box and increase the weight (in this example).

As for nails vs wood; I've build winning competition boxes with both methods. Boxes I do with nails tend to be more responsive and accurate. I'm not exactly sure why since this shouldn't really make a difference. I will admit to not making the exact two same boxes for each method at the same time so it's likely just a coincidence and speaker/box/vehicle match. Or it could be to my insanely anal nature and extra seal of the nails offer without having to stick your finger into odd places and hope you got it good enough with silicone. But I'm betting it's just the exactness of the particular boxes built at the time and their matches to the speakers and vehicles they were in.

Oh, and don't keep the laptop next to you. Keep it in the kitchen for quick reference or something and keep a few printouts next to you but the sawdust particles (the extremely fine dust-like ones, not the thicker chunks) will kill it eventually. (ask me how I know).

And if you remove the 3rd brakelight, you are SCREWED FOR LIFE and will get arrested during inspection... ... ... No? Well I tried... Couldn't resist... Thought if you actually read this epic novel, you deserve some humor... Remember you can always hard-wire it into the wires that go into those plugs on the side of the tub. So that part wouldn't be the end of the world. The other cutout however you have to keep unless you figure out another way to secure your door.

[bman9089]

woah, thanks Chris for the instructions!

So I need to apply the sealant (liquid nails or wood glue/silicone) and then tap and screw the box. Just how hard is it on the drills bits?

How easy is it to by hand, sand away liquid nails (residue left over)? What grit sandpaper should I use?

As for those terminals, they do look nice.

Where can I find them, how much are they, and HOW do you install them? Looks a lot easier then drilling another ~1 - 2" hole in the box. I'll put the terminals on the right hand side wall of the cabinet where the amps are.

[bman9089]

also, what's the verdict on coating the box in some kind of varnish to protect it from water damage?

[SirGCal]

You can get them from parts express (online store). I'd have to look up the actual address. You just drill a hole big enough (barely big enough to hammer them through) and then knock them in and bolt them down.

I always make sure I have a few extra bits for a project. I'm notoriously hard on them. But if I'm being careful, one bit will last a long time (multiple projects). If I'm drilling through the glue, it just gums it up and has to be repeatedly cleaned or sharpened. Also can result in making it hotter and causing an earlier failure.

To do by hand, I'd use a planer. Cheap, and easy and faster than sandpaper. I always keep a very small planer (maybe 3" long, 1" wide, from home depot) around for this stuff. If you plan to do larger work (filing down an edge as I mentioned before), also get a larger (longer) one. They are not expensive. If you do use paper, probably 80 grit.

Ohh, and I answered the paint thing somewhere... But basically doesn't work to well. Best solutions are bedliner, rubberized undercoating, or fiberglass. Paint will help a little, weather varnish might make the MDF fall apart; depends on the specific type. Test a small piece first.

[Keil1016]

the boxes i make are sealed, last time i made a box with the glue/silicone combo the seal was so tight,if i flicked the sub w/ my finger, it sounded like a drum, the sub should feel somewhat hard to push in if the sub is sealed up correctly, that's what you want for a sealed box. the glue gives support, the silicone is flexible. if you listen to music like i do "i'll be deaf by the time im 40" then you want a seal that can take the percussion of a subwoofer, not a rigid drying material. if you want to use paint get the stuff made by krylon i think that is textured and meant for basically outdoor furniture, it is waterproof if i remember correctly, however if your subs are going to be potentially exposed to moisture, i'd suggest getting ones that are rated for marine use. many polk speakers are, but i just blew a pair out, so i can't suggest those but my subs are kenwoods, i've been beating the crap out of those for 5 years now and still sound good, even from an amp pushing the exact upper power rating for the speaker.

[bman9089]

ok. Drill one hole and tap the connector posts in. Sounds MUCH easier than the other methods out there.

So I just ordered a pair of those terminal posts you mentioned Chris.

My brother in law has a nice selection of tools I found out.

He lent me a circular saw, a jig saw, a sander, and a 'cut-out saw' (???) that is used for cutting circles. I also think I have some liquid nails in the garage, so I'll probably go that route. I think it will be cheaper that way, and I can sand down the extra.

Everyone have a great Christmas! I'll update you guys when I get the materials and start to work on this. Thanks for all the help thus far!