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Unread 02-05-2014, 07:46 PM   #1
wheelnmac
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Dual Batteries

I'm getting ready to do a dual battery install in my 2000 TJ. I've chosen to use the Odyssey PC925 with the Wrangler products in-cab switch, 200 amp solenoid, and battery tray. My main reason for the dual set up is I like to go up in the Sierras for a few days at a time and I want to be able to keep food cold in an ARB Fridge. If I've done my math correctly, the accessory battery should last 33 hours if the ARB ran full time. I'll never not start the Jeep for 33 hours and the ARB will never run for 33 hours straight. So I think I'm good there. Here is my real question, can I trust the dual setup to winch myself out if I need to to? The PC925 is small in size but apparently has an unbelievable deep cycle ability.

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Unread 02-06-2014, 10:54 AM   #2
2jhanna
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Have you ever considered a real small generator ?

http://www.harborfreight.com/900-pea...tor-60338.html
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Unread 02-06-2014, 12:17 PM   #3
wheelnmac
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I have a small generator. My problem like every other Jeep owner is space. Not enough of it. If I take a trailer with me then I'm good. I like the idea of roughing it for a few days. I'd feel like I was in an RV park if I had a generator.
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Unread 02-06-2014, 12:26 PM   #4
2jhanna
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Electric refrigerated cooler!

Roughing it?

Just kidding, what's the CCA of the new batteries?
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Unread 02-06-2014, 12:31 PM   #5
wheelnmac
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You need to think out if the box. Ice is weight. I want to reduce my weight. If I'm out for 4 or 5 days in the Eastern Sierras, where exactly am I going to replenish my ice? I'm trying to keep the cooler inside the Jeep instead of up on the rack. The means I'm keeping my center of gravity lower. Once again, outside of the box.
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Unread 02-06-2014, 02:04 PM   #6
wheelnmac
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You'll have to read up on the Odyssey. It's 330ca each. But the there is a PHCA of I think 900. I need to look at the literature again. I've only ever put batteries in series and parallel. I work with specialized equipment and that's how we wire our trucks and generators. The isolator world is a whole new animal to me. But I'm learning.
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Unread 02-06-2014, 07:46 PM   #7
wheelnmac
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So here is the stats on the PC925.
-PHCA 900
-CCA 330
-HCA 610
-28 Ah
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Unread 02-08-2014, 06:59 AM   #8
Holder350
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13918669141675.jpg

I'd say this is the system your thinking about using.

Just a couple recommendations, hook the ARB fridge and anything else that runs with the key off to the accessory battery.

Hook the winch to the starting battery. You will still have the use of both battery while winching with the engine running but it will be easier on the alternator because it won't be trying to throw its over voltage (14.5 is technically over voltage compared to the batteries) thru the whole system and thru your solenoid back to the winch.

There's a way to wire it so that the solenoid kicks in after the jeep is started to charge the secondary battery and kicks off when you shut it down. If you want I'll draw a diagram up.

Sent from my phone where correct grammar is difficult.
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Unread 02-10-2014, 03:37 AM   #9
wheelnmac
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I'd love to see that diagram. Wrangler told me that the solenoid turns on after about 1 second of being energized. Here is another question I have. Let's say I'm dead in the water and I have no engine power, how do I wire the winch to run on both batteries if I had to winch myself off trail? My guess would be to take the solenoid out of line, parallel the batteries then hook the winch up. All being done on the trail obviously. Correct?
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Unread 02-10-2014, 06:23 AM   #10
Holder350
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13920368210940.jpg

Heres a rough sketch, sorry I'm on my phone and don't have access to fancy graphical layout programs.

Relay #1 is powered from a constant 12v source and is triggered from the starter wire. Either from the switch (best option) or from the starter relay.

Relay #2 is powered from a switched ON source. This source must keep 12v on it while the starter switch is in the start position, but drop out when the key is turned off. It is triggered from relay #1.

Relay #2 locks in after it comes on to keep the batteries connected until the switch is turned off.

This system uses 2 relays to prevent any issues with backfeeding voltage to the starter.

If for some reason the system failed, our you needed to winch without the Jeep running and wanted to use both batteries you can use a jumper wire to energize the 80A solenoid. (this is not likely...and even with the system off you would still have power from one battery)

Sent from my phone where correct grammar is difficult.
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95' XJ Country - Stock Skids - D30/D35 Limited Slip - 3" Lift - 31x10.50R15 - 4.0 HO - AX15 - NP231

98' XJ Classic - D30/C8.25 - 4.5" RC Lift - 33x12.50R15 - 4.0 HO - AW4 - NP231
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You can tell the character of a person in how they treat someone who can do nothing for them.
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Unread 02-10-2014, 09:37 PM   #11
RARECJ8
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We have always used an oil pressure sending unit to engage the isolation solenoid. Others use a switch on dash to manually engage the solenoid. We camp for many days at a time running ham radios, the ARB freezer and other stuff. Never has it fully drawn down. To be safe, I will start the engine and dial up the RPMs and let it charge for about 15 minutes.
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Unread 02-11-2014, 08:25 AM   #12
Holder350
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Oil pressure sender like on the 4.0 won't work. It relys on resistance to output a reading on the gauge.

A pressure switch would work, IIRC I used to use a mid-late 70s Chevy switch to activate stuff only when the engine is running.

Sent from my phone where correct grammar is difficult.
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95' XJ Country - Stock Skids - D30/D35 Limited Slip - 3" Lift - 31x10.50R15 - 4.0 HO - AX15 - NP231

98' XJ Classic - D30/C8.25 - 4.5" RC Lift - 33x12.50R15 - 4.0 HO - AW4 - NP231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azzy View Post
You can tell the character of a person in how they treat someone who can do nothing for them.
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Unread 02-11-2014, 09:02 AM   #13
wheelnmac
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@Holder350,
Check this page out http://www.jeepgunner.com/jeep/nwpdualbatt.htm

This is exactly what I'm doing. If I'm reading all of my literature correctly and reading everything you've sent to me correctly, what I have purchased is exactly what you've sent to me. Apparently the isolator (solenoid/relay) is all in one. At least that's what I'm understanding from Wrangler NW. Now, I love the idea of wiring the winch to the main battery. But if I put the switch in the dual on position now I've got the use of both batteries either in a jeep running situation or a dead in the water situation. I think I'm starting to get confused.
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Unread 02-11-2014, 11:25 AM   #14
Holder350
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The information on their sight is a little confusing.

The rundown of how that system works is:

With the switch in the DUAL ON position the batteries are tied together when the switch is ON, this means they will both charge while the engine is running, and depending if the "switched ON source" is live during cranking (most are) its starting off of both batteries. (Don't care what they say on the site, without a latching relay in my diagram or like said before a oil pressure switch both batteries are being used to crank because the isolation relay is energized while cranking)

With the switch in the EMERGENCY ON position the isolation relay is energized all the time, no matter of key position

If the key is in the accessory position and the DUAL ON switch selected, the isolation relay is not energized so the aux batt is not being used by the Jeep's electrical system.

I said all that to say all this,

I don't care for this system....it works great for its intended purpose, but if you leave the key on, you've drained both batteries.

I prefer a system that will only connect the batteries together to charge while the engine is running. This eliminates almost all possibility of killing BOTH batteries.

There are products on the market that will totally isolate batteries, and only charges both when the alternator outputs voltage. This is the simplest and easiest way to go, but the isolators are expensive and the same outcome can be accomplished by some simple wiring and parts that are already going to be used.

Here's one
http://www.wholesalemarine.com/blue-...FQ_l7AodfHEAGQ

Sent from my phone where correct grammar is difficult.
__________________
95' XJ Country - Stock Skids - D30/D35 Limited Slip - 3" Lift - 31x10.50R15 - 4.0 HO - AX15 - NP231

98' XJ Classic - D30/C8.25 - 4.5" RC Lift - 33x12.50R15 - 4.0 HO - AW4 - NP231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azzy View Post
You can tell the character of a person in how they treat someone who can do nothing for them.
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Unread 02-11-2014, 11:49 AM   #15
RARECJ8
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thoughts for the day:

i too looked at all those fancy battery management systems. This one looked pretty cool, but spendy
http://www.extremeoutback.com/produc...ry+System.html

on my current rig, running dual optimas i use a manually controlled rocker switch on dash to engage the wrangler NP power products solenoid. has nothing to do with key position. hit the LED illuminated rocker switch, you get both linked, charging, etc. Disengage and aux is completely isolated. So when we're parked at a camp site, disengage solenoid and run accessories, like the ARB, etc off aux battery and never invade the main, starting battery.

I also, more for novelty than anything else, picked up a dual range volt meter to monitor charging status and voltage of both batteries in one gauge. replaces the OEM volt meter on the dash with little fuss.

this:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/3508...t=0&sortbid=22
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