Changing a power inverter switch - JeepForum.com
 
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post #1 of 12 Old 08-16-2017, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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Changing a power inverter switch

I would like to remove this push button style on/off switch. Relocate and replace it with a rocker style switch.

I have no ideal what kink of switch this is? I checked the solder points with a meter and get nothing? the unit does work, and power does come on when I turn the switch on?

I can not find schematics anywhere online.

Any help is much appreciated

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post #2 of 12 Old 08-16-2017, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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I pulled the board out, hope this helps.
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91 YJ 4.0/AX15/231J AA SYE/ Tom Woods CV
3.5" BDS Springs / .75" Booms / 1"BL
HP D30 /Akebono's /1 Ton GM Crossover Steering
Ford 8.8 / Trac loc LSD w/ disc brakes
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post #3 of 12 Old 08-16-2017, 07:53 PM
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That looks like the Tyco 1571625-5 switch, as-shown in my IR Remote Switch topic.

Looking at the switch orientation in the bottom image. There should always be continuity from the top left to the top right. There should always be continuity from the bottom left to the bottom right. When the switch is depressed there should be continuity from either top to either bottom. The top to bottom continuity should go away when the switch is released.

The switch is a momentary contact switch.

It is not possible to remove that switch to replace w/ a rocker switch that has continuous open in one position and continuous closed in the other position, unless the main circuit board is reverse engineered and the switch logic is changed. It is probably impossible.

One option would be to replace that switch w/ a momentary contact toggle switch, swing the toggle for on, swing for off.


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post #4 of 12 Old 08-17-2017, 07:24 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingless View Post
That looks like the Tyco 1571625-5 switch, as-shown in my IR Remote Switch topic.

Looking at the switch orientation in the bottom image. There should always be continuity from the top left to the top right. There should always be continuity from the bottom left to the bottom right. When the switch is depressed there should be continuity from either top to either bottom. The top to bottom continuity should go away when the switch is released.

The switch is a momentary contact switch.

It is not possible to remove that switch to replace w/ a rocker switch that has continuous open in one position and continuous closed in the other position, unless the main circuit board is reverse engineered and the switch logic is changed. It is probably impossible.

One option would be to replace that switch w/ a momentary contact toggle switch, swing the toggle for on, swing for off.
Yup, I did a ton of research last night and found that it is a Tactile switch, and the only way to change switch types is to reprogram the logic. I read something about a J/K flip flop?

Would this work as you suggested? If not do you have one you can suggest?

http://www.aironboard.com/online/roc...momentary.html

Thank you for your help on this.

91 YJ 4.0/AX15/231J AA SYE/ Tom Woods CV
3.5" BDS Springs / .75" Booms / 1"BL
HP D30 /Akebono's /1 Ton GM Crossover Steering
Ford 8.8 / Trac loc LSD w/ disc brakes
35x12.5x16 Nitto Trail Grapplers
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post #5 of 12 Old 08-17-2017, 07:35 AM Thread Starter
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I also changed my meter setting from 50V to 10V (old school non digital) and was able to get readings.

So unit powered off, no power anywhere.

Unit powered on, I get 4V on solder point "C" and "D" and 0V on "A" and "B"
If I bridge points "B" and "D" the unit will power off.
I cannot bridge any of the points to make the unit come on.
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91 YJ 4.0/AX15/231J AA SYE/ Tom Woods CV
3.5" BDS Springs / .75" Booms / 1"BL
HP D30 /Akebono's /1 Ton GM Crossover Steering
Ford 8.8 / Trac loc LSD w/ disc brakes
35x12.5x16 Nitto Trail Grapplers
Walbro255 MetalCloaks
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post #6 of 12 Old 08-17-2017, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -OIIIIIIIO-01 View Post
Would this work as you suggested? If not do you have one you can suggest?

http://www.aironboard.com/online/roc...momentary.html

Thank you for your help on this.
You are welcome. The linked switch will permit turning on/off by pressing the top by or by pressing the top or the bottom, depending on how the rear is wired.

This switch w/ this actuator will work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -OIIIIIIIO-01 View Post
Unit powered on, I get 4V on solder point "C" and "D" and 0V on "A" and "B"
If I bridge points "B" and "D" the unit will power off.
I cannot bridge any of the points to make the unit come on.
A momentary connection on B and D should cause the unit to transition state, to power on or off.

Is the unit working properly? Does the meter read continuity from B to D (low Ohm measurement) w/ no power to the unit and the switch depressed and held?


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post #7 of 12 Old 08-17-2017, 08:00 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingless View Post
A momentary connection on B and D should cause the unit to transition state, to power on or off.
I'll try with a piece of wire later today after work (and not my meter prongs)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingless View Post
Is the unit working properly?
Its brand new out of the box, but will test with some electronics later today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingless View Post
Does the meter read continuity from B to D (low Ohm measurement) w/ no power to the unit and the switch depressed and held?

I'll post results later today.

91 YJ 4.0/AX15/231J AA SYE/ Tom Woods CV
3.5" BDS Springs / .75" Booms / 1"BL
HP D30 /Akebono's /1 Ton GM Crossover Steering
Ford 8.8 / Trac loc LSD w/ disc brakes
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post #8 of 12 Old 08-17-2017, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -OIIIIIIIO-01 View Post
Yup, I did a ton of research last night and found that it is a Tactile switch, and the only way to change switch types is to reprogram the logic. I read something about a J/K flip flop?

Would this work as you suggested? If not do you have one you can suggest?

http://www.aironboard.com/online/roc...momentary.html
The unit already has something internal acting like a flip flop.

This switch w/ this actuator will work. My suggestion would be a switch listed as (ON)/OFF.

It is possible that changing from the existing momentary contact switch to a different switch could cause problems. Activating a switch doesn't cause a clean change of state, from open to closed, or from closed to open. Instead, there is a string of open / closed connections that initially happen at every switch actuation, before the switch settles down to the expected state. That expected contact bounce is handled by the device, w/ logic or w/ a debounce chip.

Changing the switch will also change the amount of time that contact bounce happens. If the new switch has contact bounce significantly longer than the original switch, then the device might not perform as expected. Contact bounce time is never specified for a switch, it is measured experimentally, usually w/ an oscilloscope and a pile of switches during new product design. A safety factor of 2X to 10X is then applied to the sample measurement for contact bounce safety margin.

There are integrated circuit IC chips that perform this debounce function that could be added, if required.


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post #9 of 12 Old 08-17-2017, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -OIIIIIIIO-01 View Post
A momentary connection on B and D should cause the unit to transition state, to power on or off.
Using a jumper wire I was able to power the unit on, and then off with a momentary connection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -OIIIIIIIO-01 View Post
Is the unit working properly?
Yes, I plugged in a corded Bluetooth speaker and played music (Non battery speaker, corded power only)

Quote:
Originally Posted by -OIIIIIIIO-01 View Post
Does the meter read continuity from B to D (low Ohm measurement) w/ no power to the unit and the switch depressed and held?
I did not do this test, I assumed that since the 1st test was good (jumper wire test) you did not need this info? I will get it if you need it.

Thank you again!

91 YJ 4.0/AX15/231J AA SYE/ Tom Woods CV
3.5" BDS Springs / .75" Booms / 1"BL
HP D30 /Akebono's /1 Ton GM Crossover Steering
Ford 8.8 / Trac loc LSD w/ disc brakes
35x12.5x16 Nitto Trail Grapplers
Walbro255 MetalCloaks
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post #10 of 12 Old 08-17-2017, 03:22 PM
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No, I have enough information, carry on.

Note that for the proposed modification the switch can remain in-place in the existing location. Just carefully solder small gauge lead wires onto the through hole ribbon cable wire leads in the top right corner of the image. Use 24 AWG or smaller.


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post #11 of 12 Old 08-17-2017, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Note that for the proposed modification the switch can remain in-place in the existing location. Just carefully solder small gauge lead wires onto the through hole ribbon cable wire leads in the top right corner of the image. Use 24 AWG or smaller.
I like the ideal of keeping the factory switch in place. I was looking where the ribbon wire solders to the board and I think its a little tight for my soldering skills. Can I just attach wire to solder point "B" and "D", and then run it to the new switch?

Quote:
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Is it possible to use the momentary rocker listed below? I know its a double throw and the bottom would be useless and not used. But, It would match the rest of the switches on the panel. I will use the one you listed if need be though.

http://www.aironboard.com/online/roc...momentary.html

91 YJ 4.0/AX15/231J AA SYE/ Tom Woods CV
3.5" BDS Springs / .75" Booms / 1"BL
HP D30 /Akebono's /1 Ton GM Crossover Steering
Ford 8.8 / Trac loc LSD w/ disc brakes
35x12.5x16 Nitto Trail Grapplers
Walbro255 MetalCloaks
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post #12 of 12 Old 08-17-2017, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -OIIIIIIIO-01 View Post
I like the ideal of keeping the factory switch in place. I was looking where the ribbon wire solders to the board and I think its a little tight for my soldering skills. Can I just attach wire to solder point "B" and "D", and then run it to the new switch?
Yes one switch wire goes to A or B and the other goes to C or D.

For this work, soldering skills are important, but so is a very fine tip on the iron. Also, a tip that has not been abused, has always been kept tinned and shut off when not in-use.

Don't forget to use a very small gauge wire. For attachment to the existing SMT switch, 30 AWG wire is a good choice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by -OIIIIIIIO-01 View Post
Is it possible to use the momentary rocker listed below? I know its a double throw and the bottom would be useless and not used. But, It would match the rest of the switches on the panel. I will use the one you listed if need be though.

http://www.aironboard.com/online/roc...momentary.html
Yes, that switch will work. (The same switch bounce concern exists with this switch.)

It is possible to wire the switch so that pressing either momentary position will toggle the state of the inverter.

If I were doing this, then I would plug-in a small 120VAC input 12VDC output wall wart power supply into the inverter, so when it is turned on then the 12VDC output from the inverter would provide illumination power to the rocker switch 12VDC indicator lamp.




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