[Ironhead]

Originally Posted by peytonimor7

I've never seen speakers (not subs) with an RMS of 150 but you definitely need an amp for them.

they are def out there, but not your entry level stuff

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...dio-MM651.html
and the last series of these speakers was even higher.

Originally Posted by Profit42

speakers at 150 max power aren't typically RMS rated at half that. My speakers are 180watt max and RMS ranges from 15-50 watts per the manufacturer.

what speakers are those? never heard of a speaker that peaks at 180w and has an rms of 15w

[Profit42]

Originally Posted by Ironhead_Jed

they are def out there, but not your entry level stuff

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...dio-MM651.html
and the last series of these speakers was even higher.



what speakers are those? never heard of a speaker that peaks at 180w and has an rms of 15w

It's a range that they give where you'd get optimal sound quality. Increasing the wattage in that range only gives you more non-distorted volume. And it's a pretty common speaker, especially from what I've seen on this board. Perhaps you need to do more research?

http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Mob.../dp/B000OY4LQG

Peak 180W, RMS 6-60W.

[Ironhead]

ahhh, well i would never take any specs off of Amazon, hahahahaha, but you can do your "research" where ever you want.
and i dont usually research entry level

went ahead and checked the PDF from Polk, 60 rms and 180 peak. i would imagine amazon adds the lower range to sell to users who think they will matchup well with the factory deck

increasing wattage allows for the speaker to perform in its desired range, instead of struggling to push the cone. also reduces the chance of blowing the speaker, as long as you dont go way over the peak power of a speaker

[Profit42]

Originally Posted by Ironhead_Jed

ahhh, well i would never take any specs off of Amazon, hahahahaha, but you can do your "research" where ever you want.
and i dont usually research entry level

went ahead and checked the PDF from Polk, 60 rms and 180 peak. i would imagine amazon adds the lower range to sell to users who think they will matchup well with the factory deck

increasing wattage allows for the speaker to perform in its desired range, instead of struggling to push the cone. also reduces the chance of blowing the speaker, as long as you dont go way over the peak power of a speaker

I only used the amazon link because it was convenient. Good job saving face by being pretentious. I research low end because there's no way in hell I'm putting $500 worth of component speakers in a Jeep with inherently horrible soundstage. I'm sure high end component speakers also have RMS wattage ranges as well. Manufacturers give you an optimal RMS rating but they still have a range.

here's the same speakers on Crutchfield...not exactly the same as amazon:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-NG5NDk5...ml#details-tab

here's a non-low-end speaker:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_575PPS8....html?tp=49590

Here are some high-end speakers:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_091NO7/...-7.html?tp=106



At 25 watts all of these speakers are performing in their optimal frequency range. At lower volumes. At 60 watts they're all performing in their optimal ranges, at higher volumes. higher RMS speakers are there to help the speakers mix well with louder subwoofer systems for SQL or simply to be LOUDER in the case of large-venue performance (say if you want to make the entire neighborhood listen to your sweet jams). You can put more power to them to get that higher volume without distortion or blowing the speaker up.

[Ironhead]

well, i see you are a fan of crutchfield as well, another place thats known to care more about the sale than anything else. whats wrong with manufacturer details?

the polk you listed has an rms of 60w per polk, no range
the fosgate you listed has an rms of 125w, per fosgate, no range
the focal is a bit different as it has a 15w rms tweeter, a 50w rms 3" mid, and a 100w rms 6.5" woofer (wow, crutchfield kinda got one right)

nice try though. reading crutchfield catalogs is just like reading a quadratec catalog, they make everything sound amazing, cause they care about selling gear, not about anything else

[Profit42]

So who comes up with the low end of the range, which is the same regardless of source? Is there some big collusion among these 3rd party retailers to come up with the same fake specs to sell to people, or is it possible that the range is dictated by the suppliers? Occam's Razor works here...I'm going to have to say that they're manufacturer-supplied specs. One would think that putting in fake low-end wattage specs would be a bad idea...running the same speakers on an amp vs. running them on a head unit putting out a quarter the wattage...if that low end RMS range was fake then you'd expect huge class-action lawsuits against these retailers from people constantly underpowering their speakers and destroying them with the distortion.

So when YOU are shopping around for speakers, do you have a list of each manufacturer to go by, cruise their pages, downloading PDF upon PDF, then go find a retailer for them? Or do you read the latest car audio magazines and buy whatever the paid editors feature in the "new products" pages? I'm not at all a fan of crutchfield, so please, find me another source of specs for multiple products that isn't "just trying to sell products".

Your pretentiousness is shining through. There's nothing wrong with using a website with a consolidated inventory to shop for components.

[Ironhead]

hahahaha, no, i just hit sonicelectronix.com, they have pretty accurate info. I do research a lot and check manufacturer sites often.

you keep making poor excuses. call me what you will, but i wont believe crutchfield, or need to.

all i did was state that your claim seemed a bit wild, and you proved you didnt know where to get actual info. I would believe the manufacturer over crutchfield any day of the week

I have no idea why everyone has jollies for crutchfield as they are overpriced and give poor info. check sonicelectronix.com, much better on many accounts

to tell you the truth, i have heard many different brands of speakers, and i feel Polk give you the best sound quality for mids and highs, especially when amped. I also run a sub, so it was easy to grab higher end polks, (non components for less visual appeal) and a solid 10" woofer. then just match a quality 4 way and a mono amp

is doing it right and giving good advice pretentious? it looks like crutchfield gives ****ty advice, and lazy sites like amazon use their info, if it was any different the manufacturer would have the info listed as well, or at least have some indication on the speaker or speaker packaging.

[alexrule123]

Originally Posted by Profit42

One would think that putting in fake low-end wattage specs would be a bad idea...running the same speakers on an amp vs. running them on a head unit putting out a quarter the wattage...if that low end RMS range was fake then you'd expect huge class-action lawsuits against these retailers from people constantly underpowering their speakers and destroying them with the distortion.

If you are under powering a speaker you are not going to blow it. Speakers are blown for two reasons: the driver has exceeded its mechanical travel and thermally overloading the voice coil.

Your pretentiousness is shining through. There's nothing wrong with using a website with a consolidated inventory to shop for components.

As much as crutchfield likes to overcharge they won my business over when I purchased my pioneer Deh-80prs. They had a deal where they knocked off $20 and sent me the dash kit and wiring harness for free. They also won me over with the emails they sent saying that if I needed any assistance to give them a call and they would help. Also they had super fast shipping. To me those are very good business practices and they won me over.

[Ironhead]

Originally Posted by alexrule123

If you are under powering a speaker you are not going to blow it. Speakers are blow for two reasons: the driver has exceeded it mechanical travel and thermally overloading the voice coil.

you most definitely can blow a speaker by having it under powered, its the most common way to blow a speaker. when you under power a speaker, it basically cuts the top and bottom off of the sound wave causing clipping, it is this that blows speakers

[alexrule123]

Originally Posted by Ironhead_Jed

you most definitely can blow a speaker by having it under powered, its the most common way to blow a speaker. when you under power a speaker, it basically cuts the top and bottom off of the sound wave causing clipping, it is this that blows speakers

Yes I know what a wave is and what a clipped signal is, thanks for that info... Please tell me how sending 2 watts to a voice coil designed to thermally handle 100 watts rms will over heat and blow the speaker.

[Ironhead]

because if you want to actually hear anything, you will be cranking a system that pushes 2 watts to barely move the cone of a speaker that enjoys 100w. the signal will not be clean as the source will be pushing out clipped waves. therefore playing distorted music and damaging the speaker. it is a very common misconception as most things dont work like this. you would think that if it can handle 100w, there is no way 2 watts can blow it, and that would be true, if the signal was clean and distortion was not present

[alexrule123]

Originally Posted by Ironhead_Jed

because if you want to actually hear anything, you will be cranking a system that pushes 2 watts to barely move the cone of a speaker that enjoys 100w. the signal will not be clean as the source will be pushing out clipped waves. therefore playing distorted music and damaging the speaker. it is a very common misconception as most things dont work like this. you would think that if it can handle 100w, there is no way 2 watts can blow it, and that would be true, if the signal was clean and distortion was not present

First off under powered and clipped signal are two different things. Now it is true that pushing straight DC current to a speaker can cause it to over heat (aka the cut off part of a clipping amp) since it will not be able to move for that short amount of time. There is no way a 2 watt clipped signal will blow a speaker designed to handle 100 watts rms. you could feed it a square wave as long as the thermal capacity of the voice coil is not exceeded.

[Ironhead]

Originally Posted by alexrule123

First off under powered and clipped signal are two different things.

you are right, an under powered amp causes clipping

this is the very definition of clipping
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio)

and its effects

Effects of clipping

In power amplifiers, the signal from an amplifier operating in clipping has two characteristics that could damage a connected loudspeaker:


Difference between clipped and maximum unclipped waveforms
Because the clipped waveform has more area underneath it than the smaller maximum unclipped waveform, the amplifier produces more output power. (See the waveform to the right for an example.) This extra power can cause damage to loudspeaker components, including the woofer, tweeter, or crossover, via overheating.
In the frequency domain, clipping produces harmonics at higher frequencies than the unclipped signal. This additional high frequency energy has the potential to damage a loudspeaker's tweeter via overheating.
Other effects of clipping include:
Music which is clipped experiences amplitude compression, whereby all notes begin to sound equally loud because loud notes are being clipped to the same output level as softer notes.

[alexrule123]

Originally Posted by Ironhead_Jed

you are right, an under powered amp causes clipping

No, an over driven amp results in a clipped output signal to the speakers.

The only reason I am giving you a hard time is because you said under powering blows speakers.

You are correct in that a clipped signal from an over driven amp will burn up speakers. If I sent 2 clean watts to a speaker rated for 100 watts it will not blow.

[Ironhead]

but you will be over powering that amp trying to power 100w speakers. it is true that a 2w amp will never blow a 100w speaker, but a 15w amp being run at near full blast, will. and a 50w amp can most def blow a 100w speaker if run near full volume