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Unread 07-14-2014, 08:07 PM   #421
TX-WJ
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Thanks.

I'm using the synergy 1-5/8" OD tie rod clamp; very sturdy, a bit pricey but worth it IMO. Goal is to use it for the hydro-assist when I get there some day.



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Unread 07-14-2014, 09:21 PM   #422
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Thank you for the reply..... I will need to find one to fit on the JKS HD tierod
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Unread 11-05-2014, 03:16 PM   #423
LSRGreg
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How are your vibes after you put the 247 back in?? I've had vibes since the day I put in 4:56 gears. I'm still on stock axles and my 242 case. No vibes before up to 85-90mph. Did the gears with no other changes and have had bad vibes since at about 65-75 mph. My front is worse. The rear isn't too bad. Mostly just a little on decel from the rear. (Running slip yoke set up which has some play). The rear I can deal with. But with the front I pull the shaft for anything longer than an hour drive. I have played with the front pinion angle a bunch and even did the knuckle rotate (which caused more problems than it solved). Right now I have about 2 degrees more pinion angle than shaft angle up front, so I am going to go back to even when I replace my worn upper link joints. I can feel a little play in the 242 front output bearings, and also on the axle input yoke, so I am thinking my bearings are on the way out or have too much play. So I feel for you and your vibes. I've been dealing with the same crap.

Do you have your pinion angle and drive shaft angles perfectly parallel at ride height?

Plus, with your front axle being high pinion you should have even less angle on the drive shaft than I do. I'm running Clayton's 6" springs up front with a 2" boost, and just 6" springs in the back. Mine sits pretty level. I am debating on trying to lower it just to see how that effects the vibes. Maybe it's just too much angle on the front. I dunno. But I want to get this stuff solved. We bought a little camper trailer to do some remote camping with, so long drives are going to be coming. And I'd like to leave my driveshaft in.

Hope yours are figured out!
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Unread 11-05-2014, 08:27 PM   #424
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Oh brother....

So, I tried the 247, no dice, in fact, I'm back at running the 242 since the angle for the back is better with the SYE'd 242 (the 242 is shorter than the SYE'd 247) and I've eliminated the TC as a cause (that's the good part).

I took the front shaft out and lowered the TC about one inch (essentially I'm running the clayton's crossmember on the lower 2 bolts on each side instead of the 4 bolts on each side as it is designed to as a temporary solution), and I have the rear pinion angle at 1 angle lower than the driveshaft at ride height, which translates to 0 while driving (the torque pulls the pinion up) and that has given me the best results thus far (believe me, I've played with the rear pinion angle extensively), but still, past 70, the vibes are still there.... not as bad, but not fun if driving more than 30 min. I've already had the driveshafts balanced, but I'm thinking to have the rear looked at again at a different shop, maybe asking a driveline shop and see if they will try balancing it with the axle on jackstands and using the hose clamp method.

I don't even care for the front at this point; I would just like to tame the rear vibes out, and then I'll disconnect the front shaft at the pinion, suspend it and drive on 2HI to the trailhead if it's more than an hour drive.



My conclusion after months of vibes: It's the low gears!!. Plain and simple.

I'm running 5.13s with 35s; things are just spinning too damn fast past 70 mph and no matter how perfect your angles, with the lift (maxing out the double cardan) and any slight off-balance whatever, the vibes will be there. Factor in the JJs from the clayton's suspension, all those vibes make it to the frame and your seat, and the suck comes on.

At this point, unless an "in car" driveshaft balance solves my problem, I have two options: Trailer it everytime I take it out, or regear down to 4.88s or even 4.56s so I can push those vibes past 75-80 mph.

It really sux, I feel your pain; if you figure it out, lemme know buds
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Unread 11-05-2014, 09:07 PM   #425
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On a different note, I finally tackled an annoying clunk in the front; with the steering equalizer in place, the frame side of the trackbar is pushed forward due to the design of the TB drop, and the TB and the DL would make contact under certain load/steering/suspension travel conditions.

My solution was to take the equalizer out and cut the rear half of the mounting sleeve out and move it to the front side, reweld it and that displaced the frame side mount back about 3/4"; now there's plenty of clearance between the TB and the DL and the front clunks are all gone. If I could only get rid of them vibes!















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Unread 11-06-2014, 07:27 AM   #426
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Originally Posted by TX-WJ View Post
Oh brother....

So, I tried the 247, no dice, in fact, I'm back at running the 242 since the angle for the back is better with the SYE'd 242 (shorter than the SYE'd 247) and I've eliminated the TC as a cause (that's the good part).

I took the front shaft out and lowered the TC about one inch (essentially I'm running the clayton's crossmember on the lower 2 bolts on each side instead of the 4 bolts on each side as it is designed to as a temporary solution), and I have the rear pinion angle at 1 angle lower than the driveshaft at ride height, which translates to 0 while driving (the torque pulls the pinion up) and that has given me the best results thus far (believe me, I've played with the rear pinion angle extensively), but still, past 70, the vibes are still there.... not as bad, but not fun if driving more than 30 min. I've already had the driveshafts balanced, but I'm thinking to have the rear looked at again at a different shop, maybe asking a driveline shop and see if they will try balancing it with the axle on jackstands and using the hose clamp method.

I don't even care for the front at this point; I would just like to geat the rear vibes out, and then I'll disconnect the front shaft at the pinion, suspend it and drive on 2HI to the trailhead.



My conclusion after months of vibes: It's the low gears!!. Plain and simple.

I'm running 5.13s with 35s; things are just spinning too damn fast past 70 mph and no matter how perfect your angles, with the lift (maxing out the double cardan) and any slight off-balance whatever, the vibes will be there. Factor in the JJs from the clayton's suspension, all those vibes make it to the frame and your seat, and the suck comes on.

At this point, unless an "in car" driveshaft balance solves my problem, I have two options: Trailer it everytime I take it out, or regear down to 4.88s or even 4.56s so I can push those vibes past 75-80 mph.

It really sux, I feel your pain; if you figure it out, lemme know buds

when you asked about rotated knuckles i didn't know you guys were have a vibe party over here

so i have basicly the same thing - 70MPH the vibes start, 75 they really kick in, and at 80 they actually soften a bit. i'm also on 35's and 5:13's. i had tons of things change at the same time as the gear ratio (axles, driveshafts, etc), so it's really hard to nail down a cause but i also think that basically with the 5:13's everything just would have to be absolutely perfectly balanced, angled, etc. to not have any vibes.

i first had the driveshafts re-balanced and one even re-welded on center better as the runout was crap. i then had them balanced a second time at yet another shop. the first re-balance & re-weld helped a little but the second time didn't make a noticeable difference.

i have rotated the front axle up/down and unless you tilt it waaay far in either direction it didn't really change the vibes in a noticeable way.

i've had the rear gears re-done for unrelated reasons, no change.

just replaced the front carrier bearings while it was out and had the shop check the overall setup, no change.

rebuilt the RCV joints just the other day, no change.

have rotated and balanced tires multiple times, no change.

the only sure fire fix i know is a lock-out hub kit, which is expensive by itself plus requires new wheels (new bolt pattern required), and i'd need new RCV stub shafts. no plans to tackle this ever.

i keep tossing around the idea of a double-double-cardan front shaft. the JK axle pinion isn't quite inline with the t-case so there's a compound angle on the shaft and it's possible that a double-double might help, but i have the larger u-joints and thick wall shafts, so a new one like that would be prolly a $600+ gamble.

if you ever solve your vibes, let me know!!


edit - one thing i forgot, mine have gotten better over time - i have NO IDEA why. and it's not just me getting used to them, other people have ridden in the Jeep that hadn't been in it for months and noticed it being much better than right after the axle/t-case/driveshaft swap
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Unread 11-06-2014, 08:00 AM   #427
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If it helps, I already tried the double-double; it did nothing but make the pinion sit closer to the rocks and the driveshaft angle steeper; thankfully TW took it back and credited for a conventional double-single+refund. I wouldn't waste time on that.

Let's start a support group . As I said, at this point I'm back at running decent caster and already ditching the idea on a cut and turn, too much work for nothing unless I can figure out the rear vibes first.

What we need is RCV to spit out some heavy duty CV driveshafts, I bet that'd be the ticket.
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Unread 11-06-2014, 08:49 AM   #428
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Oh man. I was hoping you guys may have solved it.

I will try adjusting my rear down slightly to see if that helps with the rotation under load. But I can live with the back. It's the front that is driving me nuts. I have thought about making a yoke mount to bolt the axle side of the front driveshaft to it, and move it to the axle for trail duty. It would be easier than having to do both sides, and then I can run my belly skid again since I don't have to get to the shaft above it.

I have considered the front hub kit too, but that is a lot of coin and I think I would have to change bolt patterns too.

Keep in mind, I am only at 4:56 gears and have the vibes at about the same speeds you guys do. So I don't know if that would fix your issue.

Tx-wj... One thing I noticed was your flange output on the sye kit. When you bolt up the yoke, is there anything that centers it to the flange? Or does it rely on the bolts to align it? If that connection isn't perfectly centered, that might be giving you issues. I have never used one of those connections so I am not familiar with how it goes together. If it's just bolts alone, I bet there could be enough slop that it could slightly be out of center.
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Unread 11-06-2014, 08:58 AM   #429
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As for thinking about rotating your knuckles, I wouldn't do it unless you can find that lining up the pinion to a certain spot works, but makes your caster way out of whack. I did that on mine a few year back and it forced me to loose my sway bar mounts, my coil pads are way out of line (springs have a good bow in them) and I had to do a bunch of cutting to get the tie rod to clear lock to lock. I am going to be cutting off my coil mounts and redoing them next. I am going to rotate them, move them back, and up so I can get rid of the boost spacer. Use good coil retainers (had one pop out while jumping one time) and get some room back for my sway bar links and steering. Maybe even enough room to make my track bar longer, but I doubt it. I wonder if the few guys that have put 1 ton axles underneath had vibe issues? None of them probably drive that fast for more than a few minutes tho.
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Unread 11-06-2014, 11:45 AM   #430
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Tx-wj... One thing I noticed was your flange output on the sye kit. When you bolt up the yoke, is there anything that centers it to the flange? Or does it rely on the bolts to align it? If that connection isn't perfectly centered, that might be giving you issues. I have never used one of those connections so I am not familiar with how it goes together. If it's just bolts alone, I bet there could be enough slop that it could slightly be out of center.

The flange has 4 holes that align well with the four holes on the double cardan part of the driveshaft, but I even put a dial indicator on the mating part of the driveshaft when I mount it as I'm tightening the bolts, and there is no significant runout when I do it that way, but the vibes don't change; plus when I had swapped the 247 which has just a yoke for an SYE, the vibes were exactly the same.
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Unread 11-07-2014, 10:59 AM   #431
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Well, that rules that out. I think I am going to invest in a dial indicator and see how much my yokes can move. I can feel it if I try moving them up and down by hand. So that can't be good.
I also asked a couple other wj builds with big lifts and gears to see if they are having issues. I will let you know what I find out.
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Unread 11-12-2014, 11:29 AM   #432
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How are the yoke center lines in relation to side to side? Like left to right from the tcase output to the axle input? If those aren't lined up, you will have angle in the lower one even if the vertical angles are correct. Only way to fix that would be to move pumpkin over and get custom length axle shafts etc. Which sounds like a serious pain in the rear and too much $$$.

My dial indicator showed up. I'll try getting some measurements this weekend.
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Unread 11-12-2014, 09:46 PM   #433
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How are the yoke center lines in relation to side to side? Like left to right from the tcase output to the axle input? If those aren't lined up, you will have angle in the lower one even if the vertical angles are correct. Only way to fix that would be to move pumpkin over and get custom length axle shafts etc. Which sounds like a serious pain in the rear and too much $$$.

My dial indicator showed up. I'll try getting some measurements this weekend.
Wow dude!!, crazy you bring this up, cause I've been looking at just that lately; and it is virtually impossible to measure it with an inclinometer/magnetic angle finder, I wish I could lay the Jeep on it's side to do just that, maybe a protractor would help ; but to answer your question, I think my rear pumpkin sits slightly to the right compared to the TC output, so I know there is a misalignment on the horizontal plane between the rear shaft and the pinion, and it HAS to be more than a couple of degrees since I can see it with the naked eye, so my next step is to try and move the axle a bit to the left, which means adjusting both uppers and maybe the lowers, which means then re-adjusting pinion angle on the vertical plane as well (PITA); right now, the tires stick out the same amount on each side, but I wouldn't mind if it dog tracks a little as long as these vibes are gone. I wouldn't go as far as to re-tube the axle and get custom shafts, that's definitely too much work, time and money to be worth it IMO; if one felt compelled, the axle brackets could be relocated to at least realign the shocks and springs, and keep the pumpkin in line with the TC, but still prolly not worth it.

Seems like your thought process and mine are along the same lines. We're like brothers from a different motha'

Work has not allowed much time lately to play with it, but I'll try that and report back.
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Unread 11-13-2014, 12:40 AM   #434
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Well, that rules that out. I think I am going to invest in a dial indicator and see how much my yokes can move. I can feel it if I try moving them up and down by hand. So that can't be good.
I also asked a couple other wj builds with big lifts and gears to see if they are having issues. I will let you know what I find out.
Im having the same issues; 4.56 gears.

I was on 35x12.5 GY MTR on steelies, i blamed the older tires and higher rotating mass. So i moved to 315/75 GY MTR -K on alloys and had them balanced. It quieted the road noise but vives were still there.

Adjusted/extended my uppers (pointed yoke up) about 1/2", it got a lot better under 70mph...and better over 70, relative to how it used to be.

Vibes are still there.


For the rear, im good to about 80 without frond DS on. I adjusted that sucker many times, up and down until i was comfortable.

As much of a pain as it is to rotate front axle to make slight adjustme to upper arms, ill be set here for a while.

With the 242, my vibes are bad when in full-time, it almost hums.

Maybe it is my TC, i

Fawking WJ...one issue after another...but hey, TX-WJ if you roll yours send me the coordinates. I be there to clean up your mess. :lol:
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Unread 11-13-2014, 11:36 AM   #435
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Tx- right on. My axles are aligned according to the body too. I have never checked the side to side. I need to. I wouldn't mind if they were offset a little either.

I tried playing around with my new dial indicator last night, and it was hard to do. Alum rear diff and transfer case doesn't help!
My slip yoke is really loose. I can move the shaft around at least 1/8". So I know that isn't helping things. But I can live with the rear. Mine is mainly the front.

My next step is lowering it with some rigged coil spring compressors to see if going down an inch or two will make much of a difference. I figure this is the easiest and cheapest next step.
My rear pinion is about 1.5 degrees too high if I want it to be 1 below. The shaft is at about 10 deg from tcase. Which is pretty minimal.

I think I have a bad bearing in the front tcase output because I can move it around and hear some clunking inside the case. But with a dial indicator I couldn't really measure it moving since everything was flexing as I moved it around.

If the lowered height helps, then it must just be too much angle on the front. I think it's about 18 degrees or something. If it doesn't help, then my next step is probably tearing apart my tcase to rebuild and put an sye in it while I am at it.

I will try driving in fulltime 4wd to see what effect that has as I can't remember the last time I did that. Maybe the tcase pushing the shaft will help instead of the axle pushing it.

I'll keep ya posted.
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