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Unread 06-18-2012, 10:52 AM   #4381
99WJdan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snobrdrkid07
So more or less back on topic here.

The second set of 3/4 inch spacers will be here today. I may go rent those spring compressors from Auto whatever. Take it and just put it on, then jack the jeep up so the coil will hopefully just fall out and make it easier.

Also getting the rear IRO sway links today. Will do both at the same time, makes the most sense. Since I am only sitting at about 1.5 inches of lift in the rear, the additional 3/4 spacer should give me around 2.25 inches of lift in the rear. Around 21.25 hub to fender.
I got a spring compressor when I put my 3/4 spacers in. It was actually more work to use the compressor then it was to jack the other side of the axel up. Only time I can see a spring compressor being better would be if it was a air spring compressor. Those ones you get that you have to tighten are junk.

Did you get the ome hd springs or the medium ones? I got 2.75" with the hd springs. Not sure why you would only get 1.5" with yours unless they were mediums or you have the upcountry springs already.

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Unread 06-18-2012, 10:57 AM   #4382
snobrdrkid07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99WJdan

I got a spring compressor when I put my 3/4 spacers in. It was actually more work to use the compressor then it was to jack the other side of the axel up. Only time I can see a spring compressor being better would be if it was a air spring compressor. Those ones you get that you have to tighten are junk.

Did you get the ome hd springs or the medium ones? I got 2.75" with the hd springs. Not sure why you would only get 1.5" with yours unless they were mediums or you have the upcountry springs already.
I for some reason netted next to nothing with the OME HD rear springs. As it sits right now, im 20.5 inches hub to fender. Stock was supposed to be 19 inches. I am getting that 20.5 with the ome HD spring AND a 3/4 spacer in there already. Net 1.5 minus .75 = 0.75 inch of lift with just the springs. Remember that ive never replaced my isolators. So that has to be a key factor.

I am adding another 3/4 spacer to the rear now. I am not stacking. I am putting one on the axle and leaving the other on the frame side. They are small to where i feel there will still be plenty of bump stop to hold the spring and isolator in there.
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~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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Unread 06-18-2012, 11:18 AM   #4383
snobrdrkid07
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This is what my rear springs are.... idk if those are HD or MD.... because these numbers just dont seem add up
forumrunner_20120618_131753.jpg  
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~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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Unread 06-18-2012, 11:22 AM   #4384
99WJdan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snobrdrkid07
This is what my rear springs are.... idk if those are HD or MD.... because these numbers just dont seem add up
Ill check what mine say when i get home.
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Unread 06-18-2012, 11:31 AM   #4385
snobrdrkid07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99WJdan

Ill check what mine say when i get home.
I Googled, in fact those are HD spring tag. So if they are HD's it has got to be because of these 3 things.
1. Stock Isolators
2. Extra weight in the trunk, subs, hitch, junk, etc
3. The "B" springs are apparently 0.25 inches shorter then the "A" springs. (I have B springs in all 4 corners)

So thats gotta be why.
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~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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Unread 06-18-2012, 11:36 AM   #4386
billzcat1
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You could always break out the ratcheting tie straps - not quite as effective as a real spring compressor but if you hook it up while the spring is compressed, you can then drop that side of the axle without the spring extending on you. I know my spring compressor is kind of a PITA to use, very slow process.
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Unread 06-18-2012, 11:46 AM   #4387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billzcat1
You could always break out the ratcheting tie straps - not quite as effective as a real spring compressor but if you hook it up while the spring is compressed, you can then drop that side of the axle without the spring extending on you. I know my spring compressor is kind of a PITA to use, very slow process.
Ohh that could work too. I basically just want to be lazy and just have something to keep the compressed. So when i jack up the jeep. The springs will just fall out, because they wont be extending. Lol.
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~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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Unread 06-18-2012, 11:47 AM   #4388
billzcat1
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Yeah, just wrap it 3-4 times so you have good strength built up in the strap. Then drop the axle. Surprising that your breather tube came out. Happened to a lot of others but it seems to be a 4.0 thing. All D35s. Mine is still rock solid.
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Unread 06-18-2012, 11:49 AM   #4389
snobrdrkid07
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Ohh good tip, smart. Yeah, same here, I was a little surprised that the tube popped off, it seems a little short. But then again the shock and sways were off so it was able to drop more.
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~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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For Sale:
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Unread 06-18-2012, 11:52 AM   #4390
billzcat1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99WJdan View Post
The threads on the moog tres vs stock are different i believe.
Nope. That would be shooting themselves in the foot to make TREs with a different thread than stock. The Moog TREs are a stock replacement part that happens to have been beefed up in a few critical areas. They are still threaded M24 x 1.5mm.
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Unread 06-18-2012, 12:00 PM   #4391
billzcat1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snobrdrkid07 View Post
Question. When I hit a bump it makes the Jeep go off track some (mostly when not holding the steering wheel) anything I can do about this? Caster issue or TRE issue? I have not installed my new Moog TRE stuff yet. That has been my only complaint so far with the new lift.

Second, Is ~4" of up travel on the front shocks too little? The space from the axle to bump stop is about 4" as well. So, going full bump would be fully compressing the shocks and hitting the bump stops. I don't know is DD'ing will cause it to have that much uptravel. Was just wondering what you all thought. I am not too concerned about it at the moment.
Didn't look like you got much in the way of answers on this one (just getting caught up on emails since leaving the hospital).

Issue #1. This is normal to a certain extent, even with perfect suspension and steering geometry. Doing the TREs will firm this up a little. An HD steering stabilizer will help. I know you have the RC, but a lot of people recently have commented that their RC SS really sucked (surprise). Since installing my Moog STB, it rolls over bumps like a steamroller.

Bump steer is a possible issue but at only 2" over stock it should be a non-issue. What you are experiencing is probably not bump steer. If you still have a stock track bar, be sure to loosen and re-torque both ends of the bar so that the bushings are not preloaded.

Issue #2: I ran the front Bilsteins/BDS springs pretty hard at 2" without bump stop extensions. I decided I was going to get "more serious" with the wheeling so I made some extensions. On my last trip out (my first with the extensions) I really couldn't tell the difference with them in. I never felt like I was hitting the bump stops, but then there was nothing that was crazy difficult where I needed all the flex I could get. We'll see when I hit a real trail.

I guess the short answer is no - you will not max out your shocks daily-driving with your current setup.
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Unread 06-18-2012, 01:00 PM   #4392
99WJdan
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Yeah mine are ome-945 b in the rear.
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Unread 06-18-2012, 01:47 PM   #4393
snobrdrkid07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billzcat1
Issue #1. This is normal to a certain extent, even with perfect suspension and steering geometry. Doing the TREs will firm this up a little. An HD steering stabilizer will help. I know you have the RC, but a lot of people recently have commented that their RC SS really sucked (surprise). Since installing my Moog STB, it rolls over bumps like a steamroller.

Bump steer is a possible issue but at only 2" over stock it should be a non-issue. What you are experiencing is probably not bump steer. If you still have a stock track bar, be sure to loosen and re-torque both ends of the bar so that the bushings are not preloaded.

Issue #2: I ran the front Bilsteins/BDS springs pretty hard at 2" without bump stop extensions. I decided I was going to get "more serious" with the wheeling so I made some extensions. On my last trip out (my first with the extensions) I really couldn't tell the difference with them in. I never felt like I was hitting the bump stops, but then there was nothing that was crazy difficult where I needed all the flex I could get. We'll see when I hit a real trail.

I guess the short answer is no - you will not max out your shocks daily-driving with your current setup.
1. So it sounds like my TRE's are just about shot then. Which I don't doubt because the lift is exposing some more issues. Ive been looking at them and there is zero grease in the boots. So I guess id be that the new stuff is going to help a ton. Surprise surprise with RC SS. Looks like a Moog Super Trail Boss SS will be on the list too. Going to see what the new tie rod setup does first. So do you think what I am currently experiencing is a TRE problem and not "bump steer" Does the preload on the TB have any effect to what I am feeling?

2. Okay good good, i didnt think id hit a bump DD'n big enough to cause 4 inches of uptravel. Then as you said, if more wheel starts to happen. I can just toss on a bump stop extension to prevent the shocks from maxing out.

Thanks.
__________________
~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

-Michael-

For Sale:
Front XJ/TJ 2" Budget Boost. PM for details.
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Unread 06-18-2012, 03:14 PM   #4394
billzcat1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snobrdrkid07 View Post
1. So do you think what I am currently experiencing is a TRE problem and not "bump steer" Does the preload on the TB have any effect to what I am feeling?
True bump steer is unlikely at this point. At only 2" over stock the track bar and drag link should be pretty much parallel. The preload is kind of an issue. Once you pick your ride height, all your front control arms, your rear lower control arms, and your track bar bolts need to be loosened, the suspension cycled up and down a couple times, and then the bolts re-torqued at your normal right height.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snobrdrkid07 View Post
2. Okay good good, i didnt think id hit a bump DD'n big enough to cause 4 inches of uptravel. Then as you said, if more wheel starts to happen. I can just toss on a bump stop extension to prevent the shocks from maxing out.

Thanks.
Yeah, I didn't even do the rear bump stops, just the front. With them installed, I only have about 2" of uptravel on the axle, maybe 3" at the wheel depending on how it flexes. As I said, it seems to be working but I haven't really tested the suspension with the springs out to see where the bump stops need to be.
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Unread 06-18-2012, 07:48 PM   #4395
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I am now 2.5 inches of lift in all 4 corners with the new spacers in. I got my rake back! Hub measurements are F:20.5 R:21.5 so I am happy now.

Billz- I still need to loosen, jump up and down in the Jeep and re-torque all the control arms and TB. That may change some of the lift measurements too.

I also got the IRO 3" sway links installed and that is great.

This weekend, Mechanic is doing: Brake Rotors/Pads, 4 Moog Tie Rods and new sleeves, and alignment.
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~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

-Michael-

For Sale:
Front XJ/TJ 2" Budget Boost. PM for details.
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