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Unread 06-07-2012, 07:46 AM   #4156
ChrisHager
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The only reason shocks would affect lift height is:

1. Your old shocks were at their maximum length and were still compressing your springs.

2. Your new shocks are entirely too long and when fully compressed, they are extending the distance between the axle and body more than what the springs are doing.

If you gained height from these shocks, I would investigate the cause...

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WJ Torque Specs

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Originally Posted by tommyooooooh View Post
But ChrisHager makes me want to poor water on a burning bucket of gasoline now just out of curiosity.
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Originally Posted by billzcat1 View Post
The latest lift kit from Rough Country? :D
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Originally Posted by Jeeples View Post
Your symptoms sounds just like what it does when it's not doing what it should because of how it is.
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Unread 06-07-2012, 08:44 AM   #4157
snobrdrkid07
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1. Old shocks, when unbolted, didnt cause the jeep to raise up or anything like that.

2. The new shocks are for this amount of lift and have about 3 inches of up-travel left along with 4 or so inches of down-travel

My guess as to why they gave me some more height is because they take so much force to compress that that upward force is taking a little bit of weight of the springs and causing more lift. I had to heave half my weight on them to get them to compress
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~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

-Michael-

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Unread 06-07-2012, 10:04 AM   #4158
billzcat1
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Yeah, that's actually normal for Bilsteins. Since they are a high-pressure monotube (and take a good 75lbs+ to compress) they actually do provide more than passive damping. They provide a little additional spring rate to the assembly and improve roll stiffness as well.
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Unread 06-07-2012, 10:16 AM   #4159
ChrisHager
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Hmm. Makes sense in that aspect! I'm always learning something! Haha
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ChrisHager's 'Grilled' Thread

WJ Torque Specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyooooooh View Post
But ChrisHager makes me want to poor water on a burning bucket of gasoline now just out of curiosity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by billzcat1 View Post
The latest lift kit from Rough Country? :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeples View Post
Your symptoms sounds just like what it does when it's not doing what it should because of how it is.
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Unread 06-07-2012, 12:44 PM   #4160
snobrdrkid07
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Yup! Very nice to get rid of that bouncy front end!!! So that means I need to get the rear 5100's ASAP to bring the back end back up some. Rear is sitting .5 inch lower. I hope the front will settle in some more and come down from that 3" inch lift height or I might need to think of some other options to get that lower.

The rear springs do take the trailer weight well. Only sag about 5/8 with the unloaded trailer on them. Impressed by that.
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~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

-Michael-

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Unread 06-07-2012, 01:54 PM   #4161
snobrdrkid07
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If these dont tighten up my steering.... Holy crap this stuff is BEEFY
forumrunner_20120607_155124.jpg   forumrunner_20120607_155139.jpg   forumrunner_20120607_155158.jpg   forumrunner_20120607_155245.jpg   forumrunner_20120607_155303.jpg  

forumrunner_20120607_155319.jpg   forumrunner_20120607_155350.jpg  
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~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

-Michael-

For Sale:
Front XJ/TJ 2" Budget Boost. PM for details.
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Unread 06-07-2012, 02:41 PM   #4162
PhantomWJ
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SWEET! That WILL solve some problems...
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Unread 06-07-2012, 03:13 PM   #4163
billzcat1
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Nice. Thanks for confirming that they are greaseable.
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Unread 06-07-2012, 04:20 PM   #4164
snobrdrkid07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomWJ
SWEET! That WILL solve some problems...
I didnt have any problems with the steering. I could feel the bumps in the steering and i didnt like that. On some of the big bumps I could feel it wobble for a 1/2 second and didnt like that at all. My steering stabilzer is pretty new and aftermarket. Then i figured that the tie rods have 105k on them and are probably getting close to their end. Especially how I drive. So i am hoping that all these new parts will take care of that. If i ever have a lick of death wobble... i am just going to be pissed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billzcat1
Nice. Thanks for confirming that they are greaseable.
No problem. They fittings arent in obviously but they came with the grease fitting, a new nut and cotter pin.
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~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

-Michael-

For Sale:
Front XJ/TJ 2" Budget Boost. PM for details.
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Unread 06-07-2012, 08:29 PM   #4165
snobrdrkid07
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So I get this right the first time. Wanted to double check with you all.
forumrunner_20120607_222913.jpg  
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~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

-Michael-

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Front XJ/TJ 2" Budget Boost. PM for details.
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Unread 06-07-2012, 08:31 PM   #4166
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Just so you know (and I've stressed this before), you'll be feeling the bumps a whole lot more with these moog components. You won't get any wobbling or shaking but don't expect to float over bumps. Stiffer steering components means more gets transmitted through the linkage and to your steering wheel. I personally like the extra feedback. You'll get used to it and it feels a lot better.

Also an SS is just there to mask bad components, according to my roommate a steering linkage in perfect condition shouldn't need an SS. That's how I figured out I had bad components to begin with, took off my SS. Wanna experience DW full out uncontrollable? Take your SS off grip your wheel hard and hit a bump at an angle. Okay no don't do that you'll wanna drive your jeep to a used car lot and sell it on the spot lol....

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Unread 06-07-2012, 08:35 PM   #4167
snobrdrkid07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compcrasher86 View Post
Just so you know (and I've stressed this before), you'll be feeling the bumps a whole lot more with these moog components. You won't get any wobbling or shaking but don't expect to float over bumps. Stiffer steering components means more gets transmitted through the linkage and to your steering wheel. I personally like the extra feedback. You'll get used to it and it feels a lot better.

Also an SS is just there to mask bad components, according to my roommate a steering linkage in perfect condition shouldn't need an SS. That's how I figured out I had bad components to begin with, took off my SS. Wanna experience DW full out uncontrollable? Take your SS off grip your wheel hard and hit a bump at an angle. Okay no don't do that you'll wanna drive your jeep to a used car lot and sell it on the spot lol....

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I think they is a difference between feeling the bumps like I did when it was stock height. Compared to now where I feel the bump in the wheel and it wobbles for a split second. That is what I want to get rid off. That half second of wobble oh s*** moment. If I feel the bumps okay not a big deal. Just dont want ANY wobble feelings. Dealt with that enough with the other Jeep. Does that make sense what I said? Feeling the bumps in the steering wheel versus the wobble feeling?

No, I am good, I don't ever want to experience DW in my WJ. Because you are right, it would be going back to stock. That is for sure.
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~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

-Michael-

For Sale:
Front XJ/TJ 2" Budget Boost. PM for details.
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Unread 06-07-2012, 08:42 PM   #4168
billzcat1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compcrasher86 View Post
Also an SS is just there to mask bad components, according to my roommate a steering linkage in perfect condition shouldn't need an SS.
False. On our Jeeps, a steering stabilizer is necessary to prevent death wobble. The track bar/steering geometry can easily develop a resonant motion side-to-side merely on the bushing compliance and suspension travel. Voila, death wobble. This is specific to vehicles with a solid axle, coil springs, and recirculating steering arrangement. The steering stabilizer damps those vibrations and impacts to prevent the resonance from forming. Even stock JKs experience death wobble from undersized components.

Now on an IFS car with rack & pinion, a steering damper is unnecessary. A great many cars are shipped without them, although the driving experience is certainly more pleasant with it installed.

I also agree, heavier (stiffer) steering components give better feedback and the increase in unsprung weight can make a palpable difference in ride. I certainly felt a difference installing the JKS tie rod, even with original TREs.
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Unread 06-07-2012, 08:52 PM   #4169
snobrdrkid07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billzcat1 View Post
False. On our Jeeps, a steering stabilizer is necessary to prevent death wobble. The track bar/steering geometry can easily develop a resonant motion side-to-side merely on the bushing compliance and suspension travel. Voila, death wobble. This is specific to vehicles with a solid axle, coil springs, and recirculating steering arrangement.

Now on an IFS car with rack & pinion, a steering damper is unnecessary. A great many cars are shipped without them, although the driving experience is certainly more pleasant with it installed.

I also agree, heavier (stiffer) steering components give better feedback and the increase in unsprung weight can make a palpable difference in ride. I certainly felt a difference installing the JKS tie rod, even with original TREs.
I did not know that it was 100% necessary but that does make sense. Even stock height Jeeps can still get DW.

So what you mean by stiffer is that it gives a more responsive and sportier type steering? Will this new stuff help get rid of that slight wobble that I have on the big bumps?
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~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

-Michael-

For Sale:
Front XJ/TJ 2" Budget Boost. PM for details.
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Unread 06-07-2012, 09:07 PM   #4170
billzcat1
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I wouldn't say sportier. I would say more confident, more direct. The nature of the recirculating box steering arrangement doesn't lend itself to sportiness. I was actually surprised by the change from the JKS TR though. I wasn't expecting a notable difference from just doing the tie rod. It makes you realize how much flex there is in the OEM thin-tube tie rod. The new TREs will probably help more with the wobble than anything else.

Regarding steering stabilizers: I was feeling way too much steering wobble, and bumps were too harsh in the wheel. Hit a bump, have to correct the steering. All the TREs tested out ok by hand and my track bar has maybe 10k on it. Put the Moog STB on it, now it just rolls over bumps like a steamroller. Like the Jeep is flattening out the world. Made a huge difference over the OEM SS.
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