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Unread 05-06-2012, 09:39 AM   #3931
Heath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snobrdrkid07
There is too much grey area with those Black Magic stuff and just lack of information about them. Sticking with something that I know is one of the best options. (With the proof and customer backing for over a decade).
You are kidding right?

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Unread 05-06-2012, 09:47 AM   #3932
snobrdrkid07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath

You are kidding right?
No, just not interested in them.
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~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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Unread 05-06-2012, 11:49 AM   #3933
billzcat1
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Sounds like someone's been drinking the Kool-Aid. If you seriously think there's "grey area" and "lack of customer backing" for the Black Magics you are letting the wool be pulled over your eyes.
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Unread 05-06-2012, 03:04 PM   #3934
Heath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snobrdrkid07

No, just not interested in them.
I can understand if you are "not interested in them" for a legit reason. However the reasons you listed are not correct by any means.

They are well backed by Black Magic (Blaine Johnson). They are tried an true an bad ***.

The reason you don't see them in Summits and Quadratecs and 4WDs catalog, is the same reason you don't see many hardcore/ultimate level/custom/etc parts there, they couldn't keep up with the demand an quality would suffer.

Ask Blaine why they are better. Ask guys that were test mules that ran stock, then EBC, then Black Magic back to back which are better.

A big part of why they are SI good isn't even the compound, it the backing plate materials ability to keep its shape under extreme pressure and heat, which more evenly distributes the load to the rotor.

Blaine and his business partner Gerald Lee work with company's like Currie on a daily basis, helping design the best suspension an steering an braking components there are.


Your ride, your choice, do what you like, all I'm saying is that the reasons you gave are not correct.

If you think BM is somehow questionable then you have much to learn.
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Unread 05-06-2012, 05:14 PM   #3935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath View Post
I can understand if you are "not interested in them" for a legit reason. However the reasons you listed are not correct by any means.

They are well backed by Black Magic (Blaine Johnson). They are tried an true an bad ***.

The reason you don't see them in Summits and Quadratecs and 4WDs catalog, is the same reason you don't see many hardcore/ultimate level/custom/etc parts there, they couldn't keep up with the demand an quality would suffer.

Ask Blaine why they are better. Ask guys that were test mules that ran stock, then EBC, then Black Magic back to back which are better.

A big part of why they are SI good isn't even the compound, it the backing plate materials ability to keep its shape under extreme pressure and heat, which more evenly distributes the load to the rotor.

Blaine and his business partner Gerald Lee work with company's like Currie on a daily basis, helping design the best suspension an steering an braking components there are.


Your ride, your choice, do what you like, all I'm saying is that the reasons you gave are not correct.

If you think BM is somehow questionable then you have much to learn.
I tried doing some research on both companies and here is what I think. Yes, Black Magic Brake Pads are well backed by Black Magic, and Blaine Johnson the guy who runs the operation backs his product. I'd assume thats just a given.

My main concern is the specifics behind these pads: I'm curious where they are produced and by what company, obviously Blaine doesnt have a production line in his garage. Is blackmagic a company with a production facility and a warehouse somewhere, or do they source from another manufacturer? If you look on Black Magic's website the pads are pictured wrapped in brown paper with a label stuck on top of them. Now I'm not saying the packaging represents the quality of the pads but it raises my eyebrow whenever parts are not delivered to me in nice appropriated packaging. I know everyone is going to snap at this: "How DARE you question these pads!" But the BlackMagic website is very unconvincing when comparison shopping. I wouldnt mind knowing a little bit about the pad material or the manufacturing, heck maybe a picture or two of them being made. Just a little more information would be nice, all I get right now while doing research are statements without research to back them up. Mrblaine on multiple occasions calls Black Magic the best, but whats there to convince me? It seems like MrBlaine's big claim with these pads are that they are better than EBC yellows. Thats definitely a big claim to make, but if we could see some data from a test with numbers and proof that they stop better and fade less that would be a extremely valuable asset to their sales.

Now, my credibility? I make no claims here, I'm saying this from a consumer point of view. I dont deem myself any expert but I am the kind of guy who will take the red pill and is willing to dive in and learn more about something. I'm running Napa Premium rotors and Thermoquiet Ceramic Pads. At the time they were being replaced it was the best I could figure given $150 budget per axle and I have no problem kicking ABS on dry pavement with my Jeep, which is a point where traction is your weakest link.

The OP of this thread, Michael, is not able to do this so he is shopping around for new brakes and, as a consumer, he is trying to gather information and thats exactly what I'd be doing too. You mentioned how he has much to learn if he has any question about BM. If I was in his position I would not feel convinced given the amount of factual information I've found on this company. There are a good number of people who say they really like the BM pads but I can't believe something just because somebody tells me it. It seems Michael is considering Stillen rotors as an alternative, which have a very professional website with alot of information about production, the company, and have a known long heritage for race performance. They are also recommended by a vendor who is well respected on this forum. I would feel confident ordering Stillens as an upgrade. All this being said, even if the Black Magic pads are better than the Stillens I still think the Stillens will be more than adequate for making traction Michael's limiting factor and not braking power which is exactly what he's looking for so there will not be any harm if he doesn't have the absolute best, but best not take chances with something you depend upon with your life, right?
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Unread 05-07-2012, 10:01 AM   #3936
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So maybe there is not a lack of customers raving about this product but, there is still a grey area, the pads. Where are they made? Who is making them? What are they made out of? As Matt said above, as a consumer I was trying to gather information about a product. People what to know what they are buying or at least I want to know! Claiming that these pads are "magically" better then EBC yellows is indeed a very large claim to make with the only backing to prove that is someone's claim, who is trying to SELL the product. Where are the test results? That is not enough to convince anything to me. There just is no data/information on the pads to answer the questions above!? I would call that a "grey area". That is enough to make me questions these pads to not purchase them. I would consider that a "legitimate" reason not to purchase them.
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~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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Unread 05-07-2012, 10:40 AM   #3937
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its kind of Luke buying tires, the second most important thing to me. next month or so if things are right ill be ordering some general grabber m/T's just for price and they are probably gonna do me good for what wheeling ill be able to do
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Unread 05-10-2012, 08:56 PM   #3938
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Well back home from College for the summer. Had a great time packing and moving everything out. Jeep did great this time around, may the summer gas, or less weight but I had averaged 22.6 mpg at 75 mph. I was at 255-260 on the trip when the gas gauge was around 1/2 tank. Not bad at all. Going to get stuff settled in the next few days and get some work lined up.

After that, Jeep needs a bath and detail, then the Stillen's are on deck... Then possibly the springs shortly after? Or either order.
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~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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Unread 05-14-2012, 10:03 PM   #3939
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UPDATES!

The OME Springs are finally going on the Jeep. My buddy and I are getting them out of his storage unit tomorrow afternoon and then should be able to get them on Wednesday if no other work comes up. Took some preemptive measurements from center of rim to fender. Front is 19 inches and the rear is 19.5 inches with a full tank of gas. I am expecting to get around 20.5 inches on all 4 corners with the OME's. Basing that on what others have netted and the fact that I am not replacing the isolators either. Depending on how bad the shocks get will depend how quickly I will have to order them. Also, I do not plan on running the front 3/4 inch spacer but I am planning to keep the rear 3/4 inch spacer in there to keep the rear end a bit higher. BUT, the OME's will not sag nearly as much as the factory springs.
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~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

-Michael-

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Unread 05-14-2012, 11:37 PM   #3940
compcrasher86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snobrdrkid07
UPDATES!

The OME Springs are finally going on the Jeep. My buddy and I are getting them out of his storage unit tomorrow afternoon and then should be able to get them on Wednesday if no other work comes up. Took some preemptive measurements from center of rim to fender. Front is 19 inches and the rear is 19.5 inches with a full tank of gas. I am expecting to get around 20.5 inches on all 4 corners with the OME's. Basing that on what others have netted and the fact that I am not replacing the isolators either. Depending on how bad the shocks get will depend how quickly I will have to order them. Also, I do not plan on running the front 3/4 inch spacer but I am planning to keep the rear 3/4 inch spacer in there to keep the rear end a bit higher. BUT, the OME's will not sag nearly as much as the factory springs.
Uhhh if you're reading 19.5 right now and are expecting 20.5.. you're in for a bit of a surprise. Seeing as with offroad bumpers I yielded 2.5-2.7 inches I'm sure you're going to get more than a 1 inch lift lol. Expect 3" initially I'd say the springs can settle up to 1/2". OMEs seem to have variable effects on different Jeeps So your results may vary.

Edit: oh I just realized you're running that weird coil spacer thing... Don't run that, or at least not while the coils are breaking in or else they might not ride right.
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Unread 05-15-2012, 12:06 AM   #3941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compcrasher86
Uhhh if you're reading 19.5 right now and are expecting 20.5.. you're in for a bit of a surprise. Seeing as with offroad bumpers I yielded 2.5-2.7 inches I'm sure you're going to get more than a 1 inch lift lol. Expect 3" initially I'd say the springs can settle up to 1/2". OMEs seem to have variable effects on different Jeeps So your results may vary.

Edit: oh I just realized you're running that weird coil spacer thing... Don't run that, or at least not while the coils are breaking in or else they might not ride right.
Thats reading 19.5 rear with the 3/4 inch spacer and a spring coil spacer blocks (which will be going in the trash). If i took those out i would be sitting at 18.5 ish inches. The front is at about 19 with the 3/4 spacer so again if i take that out, looking at 18.25 front. I expect/hope for it to net around 2.5 over stock. Now that i am re reading this my logic seems kind of flawed, maybe? ChrisHager pulled 21.75 all around with new iso's. Again not really going to know until i toss them on there!
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~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

-Michael-

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Unread 05-15-2012, 11:07 AM   #3942
billzcat1
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Hager hit [B]20/B].75 with isos.

Better have a plan in place for that rear sway bar (end links) if you are going to be above 21" rear (and you will be)
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Unread 05-15-2012, 11:13 AM   #3943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billzcat1
Hager hit 20.75 with isos.

Better have a plan in place for that rear sway bar (end links) if you are going to be above 21" rear (and you will be)
Okay so he almost hit 2 inches over stock with new iso's. How much do new iso's usually give? Top and bottom?

I am looking at getting some zone 2-3 inch rear links. Will look at IRO too.
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~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

-Michael-

For Sale:
Front XJ/TJ 2" Budget Boost. PM for details.
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Unread 05-15-2012, 11:21 AM   #3944
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Hey I see my name! Haha. That is correct. 20.75 all around which is 1.75" lift rear and 2.75" lift front, which leveled the ride. If you leave your spacers in the rear, that will get you to 2.5" lift rear which will *almost* keep your factory rake.

I haven't measure since December. If you would like, I could grab some new numbers tonight and see how it's settled...
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But ChrisHager makes me want to poor water on a burning bucket of gasoline now just out of curiosity.
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Originally Posted by billzcat1 View Post
The latest lift kit from Rough Country? :D
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Your symptoms sounds just like what it does when it's not doing what it should because of how it is.
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Unread 05-15-2012, 11:23 AM   #3945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snobrdrkid07 View Post
Okay so he almost hit 2 inches over stock with new iso's. How much do new iso's usually give? Top and bottom?
I'd be willing to guess if they were completely shot, between .5" and 1" - but that would be a very drastic situation. I bet Billz has a bit more accurate guesstimate on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snobrdrkid07 View Post
I am looking at getting some zone 2-3 inch rear links. Will look at IRO too.
I have the zones. They are very nice. The 'eyes' are angled creating more of a factory style mounting position.
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Originally Posted by tommyooooooh View Post
But ChrisHager makes me want to poor water on a burning bucket of gasoline now just out of curiosity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by billzcat1 View Post
The latest lift kit from Rough Country? :D
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Originally Posted by Jeeples View Post
Your symptoms sounds just like what it does when it's not doing what it should because of how it is.
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