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post #5716 of 6774 Old 01-01-2013, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snobrdrkid07
I'm curious to why you would have issues with that much caster. What did it do when you had 6 or so degrees of caster?

I mean I don't understand how or why more caster would negatively affect it.
Well like a bent shopping cart wheel - bent = more caster causing the shopping cart wheel to flop back and forth

The farther away from center (0*= perfectly vertical) and increasing caster (rotating/tilting back centerline of knuckle) can cause this. That is why worn suspension on factory WJs get it due to caster to change

You measure caster on the bottom of the knuckle flat part - I used clingometer on my iPhone or you can get a digital degree level also but the app is free


99 Grand, 37" and mostly factory - Raised tank and trimmed fenders etc
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post #5717 of 6774 Old 01-01-2013, 06:52 PM
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This should give u an idea




image-1663100049.png

99 Grand, 37" and mostly factory - Raised tank and trimmed fenders etc
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post #5718 of 6774 Old 01-01-2013, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
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Okay so a shopping cart has negative caster, and you don't want that.

The jeep has positive caster, from the factory around 6.5 to 7 degrees. I've always been told that around that number you have the most stability, lessening the caster to around 4 or such will give you less stability, less return to center, and more shimmy.

~ 04 WJ Overland 4.7 HO | Graphite Metallic | Quadra-Drive | Vari-Locks | Bilstein 4600ís | ADDCO Sway Bar | Powerstick Exhaust | RB1 | SuperChips Tuned | Much More to Come ~

~ 04 WJ Laredo 4.0 | Selec-Trac | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Silent Armor 245/70/17's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon HU | Alpine Speakers, Amps, and Subs | Bilstein SS | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars | Lots of Cool Stuff ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | OME HD Springs | Bilstein 5100ís | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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post #5719 of 6774 Old 01-01-2013, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snobrdrkid07
Okay so a shopping cart has negative caster, and you don't want that.

The jeep has positive caster, from the factory around 6.5 to 7 degrees. I've always been told that around that number you have the most stability, lessening the caster to around 4 or such will give you less stability, less return to center, and more shimmy.
Actually was using shopping cart as a loose example lol

As for what is more stabile I am no expert but what I do know as with anything - more is not always better and you will find giving your jeep 7* or more will give you DW especially at higher speeds.

You will find a happy median between 6* and 4* just be ready to adjust those CAs

If IRO suggests starting at 4.5* they probably have a reason and since your changing your suspension factory rules may no longer apply

Just my 2€

99 Grand, 37" and mostly factory - Raised tank and trimmed fenders etc
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post #5720 of 6774 Old 01-01-2013, 07:39 PM
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Was just looking back but arm't you lifting it? Springs? Or just new ca's with factory springs?

99 Grand, 37" and mostly factory - Raised tank and trimmed fenders etc
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post #5721 of 6774 Old 01-01-2013, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
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I've got a 2.5" lift on the Jeep right now by OME HD springs.

~ 04 WJ Overland 4.7 HO | Graphite Metallic | Quadra-Drive | Vari-Locks | Bilstein 4600ís | ADDCO Sway Bar | Powerstick Exhaust | RB1 | SuperChips Tuned | Much More to Come ~

~ 04 WJ Laredo 4.0 | Selec-Trac | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Silent Armor 245/70/17's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon HU | Alpine Speakers, Amps, and Subs | Bilstein SS | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars | Lots of Cool Stuff ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | OME HD Springs | Bilstein 5100ís | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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post #5722 of 6774 Old 01-01-2013, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snobrdrkid07
I've got a 2.5" lift on the Jeep right now by OME HD springs.
Under 3" and factory specs should be fine from what I have read but in real life my 2" BB caused DW when things started to get worn

99 Grand, 37" and mostly factory - Raised tank and trimmed fenders etc
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post #5723 of 6774 Old 01-01-2013, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wj4play View Post

Under 3" and factory specs should be fine from what I have read but in real life my 2" BB caused DW when things started to get worn
Right, I've been told that an even stock WJ can get DW with really worn out parts. And solid axle from vehicle its possible. When you take a stock WJ compared to a BB lifted WJ the only thing that essentially changes in the front is the amount of caster that you have. Right?

From what I have been previously told, at a small lift like I have factory front alignment specs are still pretty relevant.

~ 04 WJ Overland 4.7 HO | Graphite Metallic | Quadra-Drive | Vari-Locks | Bilstein 4600ís | ADDCO Sway Bar | Powerstick Exhaust | RB1 | SuperChips Tuned | Much More to Come ~

~ 04 WJ Laredo 4.0 | Selec-Trac | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Silent Armor 245/70/17's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon HU | Alpine Speakers, Amps, and Subs | Bilstein SS | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars | Lots of Cool Stuff ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | OME HD Springs | Bilstein 5100ís | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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post #5724 of 6774 Old 01-01-2013, 08:10 PM
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BB or 2" coils achieve the same thing geometry wise. Factory specs would be just fine for you I would think

As stated by someone else earlier that your SS prolly keeping things under control. Have you thought about adding a second SS for more stability?

Also may want to consider a little adjust down to 5* if you still have some DW

99 Grand, 37" and mostly factory - Raised tank and trimmed fenders etc
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post #5725 of 6774 Old 01-01-2013, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wj4play View Post
BB or 2" coils achieve the same thing geometry wise. Factory specs would be just fine for you I would think

As stated by someone else earlier that your SS prolly keeping things under control. Have you thought about adding a second SS for more stability?

Also may want to consider a little adjust down to 5* if you still have some DW
Right, as you said coils or BB will do the same thing.

The thing is also this, if everything is setup right you shouldn't need a second steering stabilizer. Hopefully with these new parts going in soon it will fix it up.

Lol, again I don't have DW. Only thing I'm trying to get rid of is the little shimmy/wobble when I hit bumps. Trying to be more clear. It just shakes the steering wheel for a second or two. But it will go away on its own and will *not* continue to get worse like full blown death wobble.

~ 04 WJ Overland 4.7 HO | Graphite Metallic | Quadra-Drive | Vari-Locks | Bilstein 4600ís | ADDCO Sway Bar | Powerstick Exhaust | RB1 | SuperChips Tuned | Much More to Come ~

~ 04 WJ Laredo 4.0 | Selec-Trac | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Silent Armor 245/70/17's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon HU | Alpine Speakers, Amps, and Subs | Bilstein SS | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars | Lots of Cool Stuff ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | OME HD Springs | Bilstein 5100ís | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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post #5726 of 6774 Old 01-01-2013, 10:09 PM
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Still sounds like mini DW


I still think even with 2" of lift you need to have your caster adjusted even tho 2" only changes castor barely.

Wider bigger tires will cause u to have feed back to the steering wheel as well. Double SS will help cure this but it is also believed that a properly setup suspension won't yield these things like you said

99 Grand, 37" and mostly factory - Raised tank and trimmed fenders etc
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post #5727 of 6774 Old 01-01-2013, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wj4play View Post
Still sounds like mini DW

I still think even with 2" of lift you need to have your caster adjusted even tho 2" only changes castor barely.

Wider bigger tires will cause u to have feed back to the steering wheel as well. Double SS will help cure this but it is also believed that a properly setup suspension won't yield these things like you said
Hahaha, shhhh don't say that

But, I checked up on some records, on my previous alignment before the lift, I had 6.8* of caster, and now I have 4.1* of caster with my lift. So who knows how I lost that much caster. I also have a feeling that my upper control arm bushings are worn. I didn't always drive the WJ with grace as I do now.

Yeah I'm still a little concerned what it gonna happen when I go from my stock 29.5 inch tires to a 30.5 or 31 inch tire. Haha.

~ 04 WJ Overland 4.7 HO | Graphite Metallic | Quadra-Drive | Vari-Locks | Bilstein 4600ís | ADDCO Sway Bar | Powerstick Exhaust | RB1 | SuperChips Tuned | Much More to Come ~

~ 04 WJ Laredo 4.0 | Selec-Trac | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Silent Armor 245/70/17's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon HU | Alpine Speakers, Amps, and Subs | Bilstein SS | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars | Lots of Cool Stuff ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | OME HD Springs | Bilstein 5100ís | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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post #5728 of 6774 Old 01-01-2013, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snobrdrkid07

Hahaha, shhhh don't say that

But, I checked up on some records, on my previous alignment before the lift, I had 6.8* of caster, and now I have 4.1* of caster with my lift. So who knows how I lost that much caster. I also have a feeling that my upper control arm bushings are worn. I didn't always drive the WJ with grace as I do now.

Yeah I'm still a little concerned what it gonna happen when I go from my stock 29.5 inch tires to a 30.5 or 31 inch tire. Haha.
If u get those adjustable CAs and new bushings you will be fine. As u lift your wj the axle moves away from the body and the axle will rotate messing up your caster at ride height with fixed CAs

I ran 265/75/16s for 5/6 years then ran 285/75/16s on my BB for a couple of years - had to trim bumper and fenders but I liked it. 31/33s however you look at that size of tires were ok but sucked in the winter. 265s were fine though

I also don't understand everyone with junked upper bushings - I plowed for 4 years with my wj (7'6" pro plow) and when I swapped in all new CAs mine looked like new still. I expected them to be trashed

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post #5729 of 6774 Old 01-02-2013, 08:45 AM
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The dual steering stabilizers aren't necessary. Installing two only acts as a band-aide and can actually wear components more. I'd suggest getting everything replaced first and see where you're at. Adjust the CA's a little here and there until it's just how you like it.

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post #5730 of 6774 Old 01-02-2013, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ChrisHager
The dual steering stabilizers aren't necessary. Installing two only acts as a band-aide and can actually wear components more. I'd suggest getting everything replaced first and see where you're at. Adjust the CA's a little here and there until it's just how you like it.
Yup bandaid but these dana30s have been plagued with bump steer and DW for ages, eventually you will get tired of screwing with the same problem over and over and slap a $100 bandaid on it

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