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post #3541 of 6786 Old 03-28-2012, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snobrdrkid07 View Post
The sound of branches going down the side of the Jeep is like death!
I know what you mean. A year ago mine was pristine. Then I planned this 40-mile overlanding adventure (in an Overland!) on some roads that hadn't seen traffic in ages. The Scotch Broom was growing over the road to the point that I don't think you could rid a bicycle down it without losing your pants. Turning around was not an option, there were some places where it was a one-way journey due to snow and ice. So that was a fun fingernails-on-chalkboard sound, and the moment where pristine paint became an impossibility. That was still one of the best trips I've taken.



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post #3542 of 6786 Old 03-28-2012, 07:46 PM
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whenever I see branches that will make the fingernail on chalkboard noise, i just blast the music even louder and dont hear ****! hahaha

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post #3543 of 6786 Old 03-28-2012, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billzcat1 View Post
I know what you mean. A year ago mine was pristine. Then I planned this 40-mile overlanding adventure (in an Overland!) on some roads that hadn't seen traffic in ages. The Scotch Broom was growing over the road to the point that I don't think you could rid a bicycle down it without losing your pants. Turning around was not an option, there were some places where it was a one-way journey due to snow and ice. So that was a fun fingernails-on-chalkboard sound, and the moment where pristine paint became an impossibility. That was still one of the best trips I've taken.
That had to be rough hearing but, sounds like it was worth it! That tight?! We have a lot of Mountain Lauren around PA where we go that grows quickly on the trails. I wish I had an Overland... lol

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Originally Posted by alwaysHI View Post
whenever I see branches that will make the fingernail on chalkboard noise, i just blast the music even louder and dont hear ****! hahaha
I can most defiantly make my music louder then the tree branches. That is a good idea!

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post #3544 of 6786 Old 03-28-2012, 11:43 PM Thread Starter
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In addition to the trans cooler stuff I have found this. It looks like that what had said that it is the return line is correct. Couldn't help to x2 check. Although mine does not route to the radiator... So I need to x2 that as well. Going to run it for a few minutes and also do a feel test and see which line is hotter and cooler. I have kind of highlighted the return line in 'red'

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~ 04 WJ Overland 4.7 HO | Graphite Metallic | Quadra-Drive | Vari-Locks | Bilstein 4600ís | ADDCO Sway Bar | Powerstick Exhaust | RB1 | SuperChips Tuned | Much More to Come ~

~ 04 WJ Laredo 4.0 | Selec-Trac | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Silent Armor 245/70/17's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon HU | Alpine Speakers, Amps, and Subs | Bilstein SS | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars | Lots of Cool Stuff ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | OME HD Springs | Bilstein 5100ís | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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post #3545 of 6786 Old 03-29-2012, 09:59 AM
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post #3546 of 6786 Old 03-29-2012, 10:38 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks again man, I keep seconding guessing the information that I have been given! (Because I don't want to eff it up, even though this is a pretty easy install. I'd now like to find a place where I can bolt/screw the aux radiator in somewhere.

~ 04 WJ Overland 4.7 HO | Graphite Metallic | Quadra-Drive | Vari-Locks | Bilstein 4600ís | ADDCO Sway Bar | Powerstick Exhaust | RB1 | SuperChips Tuned | Much More to Come ~

~ 04 WJ Laredo 4.0 | Selec-Trac | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Silent Armor 245/70/17's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon HU | Alpine Speakers, Amps, and Subs | Bilstein SS | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars | Lots of Cool Stuff ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | OME HD Springs | Bilstein 5100ís | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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post #3547 of 6786 Old 03-29-2012, 11:45 PM
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Alright I did more research and I'm still stumped. Tomorrow I oughta be able to say for sure which is feed and return because the flow is usually bottom of factory cooler to top but the line connected to the top of the factory cooler comes out of a port on the front of the transmission, which is usually a feed not a return spot but it also has a anti-drain back valve on the transmission end of that hose that says valve-return as far as parts notation goes so its all screwy. Tomorrow I'm gunna do a quick brake stand and then check the temps on the hoses, I have access to an IR thermometer.

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post #3548 of 6786 Old 03-29-2012, 11:54 PM
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You could let the vehicle warm up at an idle without driving it at all. The heat exchanger in the radiator will wind up heating the transmission fluid. In this case, the hotter of the tubes will be the return line.

Also, automotive cooling systems almost always feed at the top of the heat exchanger and drain at the bottom, be they radiators, oil coolers, steering coolers, AWICs, etc. If they drew fluid through the top port, what happens when the level gets low? You would suck air.


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post #3549 of 6786 Old 03-30-2012, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compcrasher86
Alright I did more research and I'm still stumped. Tomorrow I oughta be able to say for sure which is feed and return because the flow is usually bottom of factory cooler to top but the line connected to the top of the factory cooler comes out of a port on the front of the transmission, which is usually a feed not a return spot but it also has a anti-drain back valve on the transmission end of that hose that says valve-return as far as parts notation goes so its all screwy. Tomorrow I'm gunna do a quick brake stand and then check the temps on the hoses, I have access to an IR thermometer.
Matt, to me this is what logically makes sense: the feed line has the drain back valve that then feeds to the bottom of the oil cooler then goes through the cooler and then out the top and back down and out to the transmission. To me that's what would make sense. But its all really screwy. I tried to do the feel method after driving around and I basically burnt my hand on BOTH lines, shows how well of a job the factory cooler is doing... But then I think this goes against the diagram posted above but, my lines do not connect like those do because my trans oil cooler is not in the radiator. We have a 50/50 shot, who wants to take a shot? This has been more of a PIA then I thought it would be to figure this out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by billzcat1
You could let the vehicle warm up at an idle without driving it at all. The heat exchanger in the radiator will wind up heating the transmission fluid. In this case, the hotter of the tubes will be the return line.

Also, automotive cooling systems almost always feed at the top of the heat exchanger and drain at the bottom, be they radiators, oil coolers, steering coolers, AWICs, etc. If they drew fluid through the top port, what happens when the level gets low? You would suck air.
Richard, my transmission oil cooler is in the AC condenser. So in my case im not sure that would work...

I am also a little confused on what you mean in your second paragraph. To what I've read, the oil is pushed "up" through the cooler. In at the bottom and comes out at the top.

~ 04 WJ Overland 4.7 HO | Graphite Metallic | Quadra-Drive | Vari-Locks | Bilstein 4600ís | ADDCO Sway Bar | Powerstick Exhaust | RB1 | SuperChips Tuned | Much More to Come ~

~ 04 WJ Laredo 4.0 | Selec-Trac | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Silent Armor 245/70/17's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon HU | Alpine Speakers, Amps, and Subs | Bilstein SS | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars | Lots of Cool Stuff ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | OME HD Springs | Bilstein 5100ís | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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post #3550 of 6786 Old 03-30-2012, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snobrdrkid07 View Post
Richard, my transmission oil cooler is in the AC condenser. So in my case im not sure that would work...
Well what the F is it doing there?! That's a new one for me. But, it makes sense that they would remove the auxiliary cooler if they put the trans cooler in the A/C condenser. It really would be efficient enough that the external cooler isn't needed in most cases. Since you'll be doing a lot of towing, it's still going to be a good idea though.

What I was trying to say is that whatever fluid is getting cooled enters at the top port and comes out the bottom port. In terms of feeding the system, if the fluid entered the bottom and exited the top, you would have the potential to "run dry" any time the fluid level got below the level of the top port. At least that's how radiators work. I would assume the same of any other heat exchanger.

But since your (OEM) trans cooler isn't in the radiator and isn't being heated by having hot coolant circulate around the water jacket, then it doesn't matter where you install your new aux cooler, feed or return.


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post #3551 of 6786 Old 03-30-2012, 12:30 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billzcat1

Well what the F is it doing there?! That's a new one for me. But, it makes sense that they would remove the auxiliary cooler if they put the trans cooler in the A/C condenser. It really would be efficient enough that the external cooler isn't needed in most cases. Since you'll be doing a lot of towing, it's still going to be a good idea though.

But yes, what I was trying to say (and failing) is that fluid typically enters a heat exchanger at the lower port and exits from the upper port. So the upper port is likely to be the return line.

But since your (OEM) trans cooler isn't in the radiator and isn't being heated by having hot coolant circulate around the water jacket, then it doesn't matter where you install your new aux cooler, feed or return.
Haha I have no idea why. But according to the FSM they moved I there to avoid the need for an aux cooler? Which I do not think is enough for anything more then a grocery getter in my opinion. Yes, will be towing frequently this summer in 100 degrees running my yard business so an aux cooler can't hurt at all.

Okay, I do understand now, that is what I thought you were trying to say. In the back of my head, I knew logically that that is how it should work. Again though if you go back a page or maybe 2 or 3 now, you will see where my trans cooler (oem) connects to the ac condenser and they lines are basically right atop one another. Yet the same theory still applies.

While it being in the condenser does make a difference and not having the fluid heated by the engine coolant, I am inclined to disagree with you. In my opinion I still think that the aux cooler would be placed best after the oem trans cooler for maximum cooling capacity. The last step would be the aux cooler and the aux cooler is getting the most unobstructed air flow.

~ 04 WJ Overland 4.7 HO | Graphite Metallic | Quadra-Drive | Vari-Locks | Bilstein 4600ís | ADDCO Sway Bar | Powerstick Exhaust | RB1 | SuperChips Tuned | Much More to Come ~

~ 04 WJ Laredo 4.0 | Selec-Trac | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Silent Armor 245/70/17's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon HU | Alpine Speakers, Amps, and Subs | Bilstein SS | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars | Lots of Cool Stuff ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | OME HD Springs | Bilstein 5100ís | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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post #3552 of 6786 Old 03-30-2012, 12:35 AM
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Richards theory about potentially running dry holds true if the pump is sucking fluid through the return line but at least in the 42 it pumps fluid out of the transmission (specifically somewhere near the torque converter because thats where the oil gets the hottest) using the feed line so the only way that pump is going to run dry is if the transmission pan runs out of fluid. This fluid then pushes up through the factory cooler from bottom to top so that any air bubbles are encouraged to purge out.

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post #3553 of 6786 Old 03-30-2012, 12:39 AM
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I edited my post, I got turned around again. Can't focus with these painkillers... fluid comes in the top and out the bottom.

The law of cooling states that heat transfer is proportional to the square of the difference in temperature between the object and the cooling medium...so if you want the most cooling, put the most efficient cooler plumbed first in line. If your aux cooler is first to receive hot fluid and has better airflow, you'd want the hottest fluid to be exposed to the coldest air. If you are flowing fluid that has already been cooled by the OE cooler you won't get much in the way of heat transfer.


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post #3554 of 6786 Old 03-30-2012, 12:41 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compcrasher86
Richards theory about potentially running dry holds true if the pump is sucking fluid through the return line but at least in the 42 it pumps fluid out of the transmission (specifically somewhere near the torque converter because thats where the oil gets the hottest) using the feed line so the only way that pump is going to run dry is if the transmission pan runs out of fluid. This fluid then pushes up through the factory cooler from bottom to top so that any air bubbles are encouraged to purge out.
Yup, its 2:40 in the morning and my mind just got blown.

So are you saying now that the.... s*** I don't know what you are saying. That the fluid is being pumped out at the TQ and sent up through the cooler and then returned to the trans pan??

~ 04 WJ Overland 4.7 HO | Graphite Metallic | Quadra-Drive | Vari-Locks | Bilstein 4600ís | ADDCO Sway Bar | Powerstick Exhaust | RB1 | SuperChips Tuned | Much More to Come ~

~ 04 WJ Laredo 4.0 | Selec-Trac | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Silent Armor 245/70/17's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon HU | Alpine Speakers, Amps, and Subs | Bilstein SS | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars | Lots of Cool Stuff ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | OME HD Springs | Bilstein 5100ís | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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post #3555 of 6786 Old 03-30-2012, 12:44 AM
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All the time we've spent talking about it... you could have had it installed by now.


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