[MoonyJohn]

Originally Posted by gatorayde

8 lug outers increase the WMS by 2", so the waggy 44 is perfect width. 9's are nice, but youre still left with 28 or 31 spline axles and they aren't cheap to build (the right way, anyways). As for WMS, they vary greatly: http://dfwmotorsport.com/Fairlane/9inchrearends.htm

The narrow trac 44's (wagoneers) are 61.5" WMS, wide tracs (FSJ's) are 64.5". On the former, there isn't a whole lot of room on the axle tube to fit a coil mount. Something to think about...

Also, you can swap in a 242HD from most durangos (32 splines F/R, wide chain, but only a 3 gear planetary). I actually made money swapping one in and selling my 242j. For 4.0's they're 100% bolt in and for 4.7's you'd just have to swap input shafts. Just keep a tube of JB weld handy for when the case cracks

What are your plans for unibody reinforcing, tire size, suspensions setup, etc ? Lot more to axle swaps than it appears

Thanks Gator for all the info, looks like ill be coming to you for some guidance

Ill go in order here..

Being that it adds 2", I think Ill look for a D60 instead. I just thought I was SOL for width wise so thats why I went in the direction of a 9". Though, that means I'd have to look for new wheels and tires then as well.

As for the width, I'm pretty sure its a narrow trac, ill have to see it for myself though.

As for 3 gear planetary, what do you mean by that? As in a 2wd, Neutral, and 4 lo? And TC's are pretty easy to work on? Ive never opened one up before, but im sure its nothing terribad haha

As for my plans, which seem to change every hour or so.. haha. Id like to actually get rid of the IRO LA kit and buy the Clayton LA upgrade kit. Ill keep the shocks, and the coils, depending on what size tires I want to run. Being that they have 4.88 gears in the d44, thats a high ratio for 35's IMO. But, having the axle work already done I should just keep them. I might be able to run 37's if I was to get the axles moved out, and bumpstop it correctly since I might be running the clayton kit. I definitely want to do this all right so having clayton would just be a lot more room for adjusting.. Like I said, my plans change but I know for sure I want to get the claytons so that covers up a lot of bandaids I'd have to fix

[Bama_WJ]

The planetary gear is a set of gears that basically gives the transfer case 4LO. It's connected to the input shaft right at the front of the transfer case. Some heavy duty transfer cases will have a 6 gear planetary (Example: 241).

Probably not from a 242 but this is what they look like:

[gatorayde]

Sure thing man.

First, WMS isn't as crutial as you think.. You definately want at least a 63" WMS axle, but having them off a bit front to rear is not an issue.

You can run 15's on the 44 (and 60/9") if you swap to either a chevy/jeep or ford 3/4 ton brake setup (6 lug chebby/jeep or 5 lug ford). Youl have to swap the knuckles/spindles too if you go with ford.

Ford brakes are 5x5.5 and have small spindles, so you could get them redrilled to 5x5 and then worry about the rear axle down the line. Chebby/jeep brakes are 6 lug and have the big spindles, so you cannot simply redrill them (I would imaging you could run 6 lug rims and just redrill the 44a shafts). Or, you can rock the 8 lug setup and swap a rear 8 lug axle . Lots of options here, as you can tell, haha.

Looking at the pic it's definately a narrow trac. Compare that to a widetrac, you can see the extra room (~2") on the drivers tube: http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74...9/DSCF0224.jpg

The 3 gear planetary is not that big of an issue really (which btw is the gear that gives you 4 Lo). They do make a 6 gear planetary that can handle more torque though (~$80 bucks on ebay). With the wide chain and 32 spline outputs, the weak point is the planetary or the case. I highly doubt youd break either with 35s.

Tearing a T case apart is really simple, just make sure you have a good pair of LOCK-ring pliers and some RTV. The 242 uses a roll pin to hold the shifter linkage in (which prevents you from pullig the input shaft). KOR has a really good write up on swapping T cases, the info on removing the roll pin is at the bottom: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/techart...-242_swap.html

Good idea on ditching the IRO arms, it'd be a lot of fab work to get them to line up on the 44.

4.88's might be a little low for 35's and the V8, but going to 4.56's would be a waste of time/money, IMO. Only a 7% difference.

One more thing to keep in mind. If youre going to run 37's, getting the d44 to handle that much tire will probably cost almost (I say "almost" loosely) the same as a D60. Then you get into the whole 44 vs 60 debate... Thats a whole different road, haha.

@Bama, the only difference in planetaries is when they were made. They switched them in '93, so any planetary from a '93 and up from any tcase (241/231HD/etc) would swap, and vice versa.

[comptiger5000]

For the 242hd swap (from a Durango), couldn't you just pull one from a 4.7 Durango and bolt it right in?

[RedlegWJ]

Just some more food for thought. I'm getting ready to cut the outer tubes off a waggy 44, and weld on the tubes from a WJ 44hd to make a hybrid axle. Lets me kee my brakes and ABS, 30 spline shafts at WJ width. I have an Artec truss to go on to reinforce the tubes and give me a top link bracket location. I already had the 44 or I would've picked up a 30 spline 60 to do the same thing with. Also, I believe the FSJ wide tracks, although are wider, have an offset pumpkin. But if tyou were to cut the tubes like above, you might have a better choice for gearing than what waggy's offer. I have 4:10's to go in, but I'm only gonna run 33's, which is why a 44 is fine for me.

[MoonyJohn]

Originally Posted by gatorayde

Sure thing man.

First, WMS isn't as crutial as you think.. You definately want at least a 63" WMS axle, but having them off a bit front to rear is not an issue.

You can run 15's on the 44 (and 60/9") if you swap to either a chevy/jeep or ford 3/4 ton brake setup (6 lug chebby/jeep or 5 lug ford). Youl have to swap the knuckles/spindles too if you go with ford.

Ford brakes are 5x5.5 and have small spindles, so you could get them redrilled to 5x5 and then worry about the rear axle down the line. Chebby/jeep brakes are 6 lug and have the big spindles, so you cannot simply redrill them (I would imaging you could run 6 lug rims and just redrill the 44a shafts). Or, you can rock the 8 lug setup and swap a rear 8 lug axle . Lots of options here, as you can tell, haha.

Looking at the pic it's definately a narrow trac. Compare that to a widetrac, you can see the extra room (~2") on the drivers tube: http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74...9/DSCF0224.jpg

The 3 gear planetary is not that big of an issue really (which btw is the gear that gives you 4 Lo). They do make a 6 gear planetary that can handle more torque though (~$80 bucks on ebay). With the wide chain and 32 spline outputs, the weak point is the planetary or the case. I highly doubt youd break either with 35s.

Tearing a T case apart is really simple, just make sure you have a good pair of LOCK-ring pliers and some RTV. The 242 uses a roll pin to hold the shifter linkage in (which prevents you from pullig the input shaft). KOR has a really good write up on swapping T cases, the info on removing the roll pin is at the bottom: http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/techart...-242_swap.html

Good idea on ditching the IRO arms, it'd be a lot of fab work to get them to line up on the 44.

4.88's might be a little low for 35's and the V8, but going to 4.56's would be a waste of time/money, IMO. Only a 7% difference.

One more thing to keep in mind. If youre going to run 37's, getting the d44 to handle that much tire will probably cost almost (I say "almost" loosely) the same as a D60. Then you get into the whole 44 vs 60 debate... Thats a whole different road, haha.

@Bama, the only difference in planetaries is when they were made. They switched them in '93, so any planetary from a '93 and up from any tcase (241/231HD/etc) would swap, and vice versa.

Ill go in order again. Firstly, ill probably end up keeping the 8 lug, and finding a 60. Ill just run a set of steel 17's unless I decide otherwise on a fancy rim.

So the internals of a planetary gear has 3 physical gears, from what I can see in bama's post. So having 6 gears is better how? Less stress on each gear?

For the gear ratio, since the work is already done and I didnt pay for it to be done, ill just run the 4.88's and maybe run 37's just to keep the rpms correct and since I should be able to fit them with some correct bumpstopping. The D44 should be fine with how I wheel, IMO if I can wheel with a worn out D30 with 35's, a 44 should hold up just fine with my driving style. Considering most of my time will be on the road, Ill be ok. Im not a lead foot offroad anyways, and I usually know when something is being pushed too hard. I got time to figure this out, but its best to do it right you know?

As for the clayton kit, it would just be better overall for me. I can hold off on putting it on until I need to, but that also gives me more time to save up. Id have to get the 4 link truss, so when I get the D60 I can get started on saving for brackets too. Shock mounts are probably pretty easy to fab up, small stuff atleast, but coil mounts, and all the others might be tricky. I think for the front end on the 44 I might call up clayton, or maybe contact pancake to torchmate me a whole front end kit since hes done this before.

Lots of time, this wont be a project that starts next week thats for sure. Hopefully I can get the front axle at my house in the next couple months, and then in the meantime ill look out for the right D60.

@ Bama, you said a 99-04 Van D60 would work? Should I even bother with trying to find one with an ABS plugin? Considering it looks like a TC will be in order, Ill just need to look for a D60 in the width range of 63.5". Do you guys have a link for the year ranges for rear Dana 60's? Im sure I can dig for something on pirate.

[Bama_WJ]

Originally Posted by MoonyJohn

@ Bama, you said a 99-04 Van D60 would work? Should I even bother with trying to find one with an ABS plugin? Considering it looks like a TC will be in order, Ill just need to look for a D60 in the width range of 63.5". Do you guys have a link for the year ranges for rear Dana 60's? Im sure I can dig for something on pirate.

I mean, anything could work really. And good luck trying to find a 60 that narrow. Most 60s are going to be in the 67"+ range I believe.

I thought I would give you a heads up on the Ford vans since they aren't something you would automatically think about having a D60. I just think it's nice that they are already setup with disk brakes and maybe ABS if you could figure out the signal. And in reality, I don't really know how ABS would do with a 37" tire. Maybe it's something you need in the snow. For me, I'm ripping the ABS out and replacing it with a prop valve when the time comes to make it road worthy with 37s.

But yea, you're just going to have to do some research. Search for Dodge trucks, Ford vans (watch out for Dana 61s), early F-Series trucks (I think, but most Ford trucks are going to have the Sterling rear axle) and Chevy trucks.

[comptiger5000]

IIRC, SaturnICL used the front and rear axles from an 06 F-350 (D60 front, Sterling 10.5 rear).

[gatorayde]

@ comp. He also has coilovers. Good luck fitting a coil bucket on the drivers tube The 10.25/10.5 are great axles though.

@ moony. Yes, double the number of planetaries spreads the load evenly.

Id agree that the 44 will be fine with 37s for what you intend to do. Just be ready to change balljoints fairly often.

One issue with 242hd's is that they do not have a speedo sensor. You might be better off building/buying a Tcase that has one (231HD, d300, etc).

Also consider your options for reinforcing the unibody. The weakest part of the "frame" is right above the axles (the clayton stiffeners obviously don't address this). The unibody isn't going to like all the added unsprung weight.

Another subject to ponder about is steering. Im assuming youre going with hydro assist? I know AP still runs the stock WJ box and 36" IROCs, but Ive heard that hydro assist is almost a necessity with 37s+.

Any plans for a cage? 37's and a tall lift mean a tippy ride. Not really a necessity, but having seen the way zj's/wj's fold when they roll has scared me enough to put one on my to-do list.

Just trying to get you brainstorming here. Get used to searching pirate and MC, if you haven't already

[mtnmarc]

will a coil fit on that short side axle tube on the 44 you are looking at? the truss looks in the way right now.

finding a dana 60 that narrow will be nearly impossible, unless you find one already cut down. you also have the option of the ECGS bolt in 60. its already narrowed. just a thought.

ABS with 37s will be nearly useless, ill be doing the same thing as BAMA by just adding a prop valve just as andy did in his zj.

a np231 would probably be a better choice that a 242 as stated above, no speed sensor and no real sye. you can get the speed sensor, driveline e brake, and sye with a 231. also gear it to 4:1.

hydro assist will definitely help with 37s. cage, probably would be nice.

many many many things are extra that are needed for axle swaps. just more to think about.

[Bama_WJ]

Figured I give you a helpful link for steering. These are the guys I'll be doing my hydro assist through. I'm going with the Stage 2 kit.

http://westtexasoffroad.homestead.co...osteering.html

[CrawlingForward]

Wow, this is an absolutely incredible rig.

Kickass and gorgeous in just the right combination. Nice work, man.

[doogie]

First off, loved your old ZJ, love the new one even more. You definitly have a knack for the right look and a complete build. Seems like I've read you say you just want to drive it and are sick of working on it more than once. My personal thoughts are at this moment you have a really really well built, georgeous Jeep. If you cross that threshold into axle swaps and 37's you step onto a new plain. You step further away from awesome daily driver into ongoing project. I'm not trying to talk you out of that as god knows we'll all love reading it and seeing it. I'm just saying, money, time, intended use, is that really the next step? Food for thought, I look forward to seeing it whatever path that is.

On the wheels, and yes I'm very late to that issue, why didn't you just order new wheels and sell your old ones? Those 15" black or dark gray mags can be had for $100-$125 each. $500 total, sell yours for $300-$350 and you are out $200 bucks total and have colored wheels and you are in it way cheaper than powder coating. Summit has stupid cheap shipping, last time I ordered soft 8's shipping was $5 for all 5 wheels, not each.

[BrianBSHS]

awesome jeep, read through the whole thing, took forever, but I made it to the end.

[MoonyJohn]

Thanks guys

Built is pretty much on hold, i got some duratracs cause the kevlars are costing me too much money. Loving the duratracs, do alright in the snow, not as good as I hoped but they are definitely still pretty damn impressive. Ive been going boarding alot and thats all the attention the jeeps been getting. Thinking of getting a 2012 mazda 3 hatchback or a 2012 subaru hatchback. Subaru is 4wd, mazda is way nicer overall and gets better mileage (what im looking for). Subaru get 36 highway, mazda gets 40. Decisions, decisions..

Not much planned for the jeep anymore, my brother will probably end up driving it the most since ill be getting a new car. Hes 15 now but when he gets his license ill let him drive it to school. He WILL have the best rig in my area for students