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Unread 02-09-2014, 07:57 AM   #91
Timo_90xj
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Originally Posted by newfieZJ View Post
You should try Castrol 0w-30 though , best oil I ever used . I hesitated for almost a year on it , then tried it . It's not only better for cold starts , but , also , I have not heard a start up tick I had since using 0w-30
Thanks, gotta try that!

I've used Castrol full synthetic oils on some of my previous vehicles and have had zero issues with them. I used Castrol 5W-40 (or was it 10W-40) on my XJ during warmer weather (from early spring to late autumn) and had no lifter tick after start up, like I did with some other full synthetics of similar viscosity.

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1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
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Unread 02-09-2014, 08:07 AM   #92
newfieZJ
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Got a buddy on here , and he researched the heck outta choosing an oil . German castrol was his winner . My slate 5.9 had a start up tick , 2-3 secs worth . I was running Castrol 5w-30 synthetic with no change over conventionals . Once the 0w-30 went in , start ups were /are smooth , even in the cold . You won't be disappointed
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Unread 02-09-2014, 11:47 PM   #93
G-Wag
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I don't know if anyone suggested this on the thread but pour some HEET ( YELLOW BOTTLE) from any automotive store into a full tank of gas. . . .It'll help keep your fuel lines from freezing....and tell all your neighbors too, unless you want to do some explaing afterwards.
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Unread 02-10-2014, 04:10 AM   #94
herqulees
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As far as the idle time subject my argument still stands that cold oil has a lot less to deal with in an idling engine than cold oil dealing with stop and go of leaving your house, going up and down curvy/hilly local roads, and getting on an interstate on ramp. If someone can provide proof otherwise, no matter what language it's in, I'd be interested in reading it. The oil flow vs pressure argument is mostly invalid (yes low oil pressure is always bad, but higher than usual oil pressure is the case with cold oil). Pressure within tolerances keeps things from touching, flow within tolerances keeps temperatures in range, cold oil moves slower, cold oil needs to absorb more heat to warm up.

On a different subject... Ever since switching to AMSOil I just can not understand why people go with cheaper oil. I know it's much more expensive, but the millage between oil changes makes it cheaper in the long run. Along with my 4.0 runs quieter from the second it starts to the second it's shut off and I got a MPG increase around 1-2MPG. I know I sound like some sort of sales guy, but seriously for anyone that hasn't heard of it I highly recommend looking it up.
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Unread 02-10-2014, 04:22 AM   #95
herqulees
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Wag View Post
I don't know if anyone suggested this on the thread but pour some HEET ( YELLOW BOTTLE) from any automotive store into a full tank of gas. . . .It'll help keep your fuel lines from freezing....and tell all your neighbors too, unless you want to do some explaing afterwards.
While the stuff isn't a ripoff, it does its job. I just want to point out that it is typically unneeded, for gasoline vehicles at least. Ethanol fuel acts as its own antifreeze, and even ethanol free gasoline, while I have never seen/heard of a definitive study of the exact freezing temperature, does not have an easy to reach freeze point.
If anyone has more knowledge on gasoline freezing though I'm interested in the subject, ever since the scene in The Day After Tomorrow.
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Unread 02-10-2014, 08:27 PM   #96
RoldGold
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Originally Posted by herqulees View Post
While the stuff isn't a ripoff, it does its job. I just want to point out that it is typically unneeded, for gasoline vehicles at least. Ethanol fuel acts as its own antifreeze, and even ethanol free gasoline, while I have never seen/heard of a definitive study of the exact freezing temperature, does not have an easy to reach freeze point.
If anyone has more knowledge on gasoline freezing though I'm interested in the subject, ever since the scene in The Day After Tomorrow.
If the world actually comes to that, the last thing I'm worrying about it is the condition of the fuel lines on my Jeep.
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Unread 02-10-2014, 08:37 PM   #97
herqulees
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If the world actually comes to that, the last thing I'm worrying about it is the condition of the fuel lines on my Jeep.
All of us on this forum would of been a great addition to that movie. The great Jeep migration across the pacific to Australia. Could be a bit of a comedy too. "Day ten on our journey; only five blower motor connector repairs were needed and no casualties, a large improvement from the previous days of ten or more resulting in people freezing to death in some ZJs. On a continued brighter note ZJ drivers are showing less stress due to their rear wipers breaking and thus not being able to watch the deep freeze that chases behind us and faulty dash dimmer switches causing a dance-club-like interior."
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Unread 02-11-2014, 02:14 AM   #98
970001zj
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so am i the only one who thinks an engine that isnt warmed up to temp runs like garbage !?

i dont care how many people tell me in whatever scientific bla bla

your propaganda has no effect on me except for making me laugh and cringe at the thought of buying a used vehicle from someone you have told this crap to
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Unread 02-11-2014, 05:26 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by 970001zj View Post
so am i the only one who thinks an engine that isnt warmed up to temp runs like garbage !?

i dont care how many people tell me in whatever scientific bla bla

your propaganda has no effect on me except for making me laugh and cringe at the thought of buying a used vehicle from someone you have told this crap to
No , you are not alone .
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Unread 02-11-2014, 09:26 AM   #100
herqulees
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Originally Posted by 970001zj View Post
so am i the only one who thinks an engine that isnt warmed up to temp runs like garbage !?

i dont care how many people tell me in whatever scientific bla bla

your propaganda has no effect on me except for making me laugh and cringe at the thought of buying a used vehicle from someone you have told this crap to
If it's fuel injected and running "like crap" when cold then there is something wrong with it, plain and simple.
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Unread 02-11-2014, 10:06 AM   #101
Timo_90xj
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so am i the only one who thinks an engine that isnt warmed up to temp runs like garbage !?
IMO, MPI engines don't run like crap, but they do run fairly rich. I odn't wanna keep the engine run rich for 20 minutes, having the cold oil hardly lubricate the engine, instead of getting the engine and motor oil up to normal operating temps in a couple of minutes.

Keep in mind not even full synth motor oils provide their best lubricating and protecting qualities at very low temps. You want to get that oil to warm up pretty fast under fairly light engine loads and normal operating RPMs. Engines are designed to operate the best at certain RPM range, and it definitely isn't idle RPMs Unless the vehicle manufacturer or an idiot light on the gauge cluster specifically instructs one not to drive before certain coolant temp is reached, a long warm up period isn't needed.


..and no, I wouldn't jump into a vehicle at 0*F, fire it up and start driving right away. That'd be just stupid.


Quote:
your propaganda has no effect on me except for making me laugh and cringe at the thought of buying a used vehicle from someone you have told this crap to
I don't expect my "propaganda" to have an effect at anybody. However, like I wrote earlier, I share my "crap" here so I can try helping some people understand what can extended idling do to a cold engine.

I definitely am pretty stumped so many of you actually prefer having a cold engine idle for a long time in cold, while here across the ocean it's considered bad practice by most of us living in the colder regions. I guess it's a cultural difference then?


Knowing the average passenger vehicle age here is over 12 years with 150-250k miles (thanks to government for taxing new vehicles very heavily), and having annual mandatory vehicle inspection performed with a fairly strict emissions test on '93-> vehicles (an engine burning oil even slightly more than normally isn't gonna pass), and we don't get too much vehicles rejected because of emissions tells me the method we prefer using here isn't destroying engines very quickly


I honestly don't know how quickly an engine is gonna be worn badly using extended cold weather idling/ heat- up procedure, but the studies I've seen suggest a single cold start + extended idling with an engine using full synth oil can be an equivalent of driving up to couple hundred miles on a warm engine. Sounds like a lot to me though, and I find it hard to believe it'd be that much, but who knows..
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1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 LX daily driver, 1.75" BB, 32" KM2s, HPD30 Eaton e-locker/D44a stock LSD, 4.56 gears, custom- fabbed tube bumpers and tube fenders,...

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/d...s-etc-1222317/


1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
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Unread 02-11-2014, 12:44 PM   #102
970001zj
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Originally Posted by herqulees View Post
If it's fuel injected and running "like crap" when cold then there is something wrong with it, plain and simple.
well it dosnt pop or detonate but there is a noticeable power loss
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Unread 02-11-2014, 03:01 PM   #103
herqulees
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Originally Posted by 970001zj View Post
well it dosnt pop or detonate but there is a noticeable power loss
Well I wouldn't call that running like crap... Motor oil, transmission oil, front and rear diff oil, transfer case oil, all of these oils are cold and don't want to move as easily. My Jeep when it's cold takes a noticeable bit longer to get up to speed on the interstate, once it's warmed up though from being driven around it's back to normal.
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Unread 02-11-2014, 03:36 PM   #104
herqulees
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo_90xj View Post
IMO, MPI engines don't run like crap, but they do run fairly rich. I odn't wanna keep the engine run rich for 20 minutes, having the cold oil hardly lubricate the engine, instead of getting the engine and motor oil up to normal operating temps in a couple of minutes.

Keep in mind not even full synth motor oils provide their best lubricating and protecting qualities at very low temps. You want to get that oil to warm up pretty fast under fairly light engine loads and normal operating RPMs. Engines are designed to operate the best at certain RPM range, and it definitely isn't idle RPMs Unless the vehicle manufacturer or an idiot light on the gauge cluster specifically instructs one not to drive before certain coolant temp is reached, a long warm up period isn't needed.


..and no, I wouldn't jump into a vehicle at 0*F, fire it up and start driving right away. That'd be just stupid.




I don't expect my "propaganda" to have an effect at anybody. However, like I wrote earlier, I share my "crap" here so I can try helping some people understand what can extended idling do to a cold engine.

I definitely am pretty stumped so many of you actually prefer having a cold engine idle for a long time in cold, while here across the ocean it's considered bad practice by most of us living in the colder regions. I guess it's a cultural difference then?


Knowing the average passenger vehicle age here is over 12 years with 150-250k miles (thanks to government for taxing new vehicles very heavily), and having annual mandatory vehicle inspection performed with a fairly strict emissions test on '93-> vehicles (an engine burning oil even slightly more than normally isn't gonna pass), and we don't get too much vehicles rejected because of emissions tells me the method we prefer using here isn't destroying engines very quickly


I honestly don't know how quickly an engine is gonna be worn badly using extended cold weather idling/ heat- up procedure, but the studies I've seen suggest a single cold start + extended idling with an engine using full synth oil can be an equivalent of driving up to couple hundred miles on a warm engine. Sounds like a lot to me though, and I find it hard to believe it'd be that much, but who knows..
You make it sound like we're talking about letting it idle for half an hour or more. I idle 10-15minutes, if I underestimate how much I still need to do before leaving for work it can sometimes be 20minutes, but it's rarely that long and tends to be close to 15minutes. Other thing is fuel injected engines, at least the Jeep 4.0, run anything but rich. It starts and within 60seconds the O2 sensors are active and running the engine lean. I keep asking you to provide these tests you talk about but you have yet to give them, making me think this is all personal opinion you're giving, which most of what I'm saying is too since I haven't done any such tests, but my point is opinion vs opinion is lose lose unless someone can prove the other wrong. Thing is though if cold oil in an idling engine really was as bad as you make it sound then why is it so unheard of. If the pump is getting oil, can keep oil pressure up, and the oil is flowing, even if it's flowing slower than usual (and within oil flow tolerances), the oil is doing its job.
And just to add on to all of this, this argument is getting more and more dated to the point it doesn't really apply anymore to modern vehicles, the companies realize most people don't know or care about how to take care of an engine anymore, so they figured out how to make them better; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSLB...F6E74B&index=1
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Unread 02-11-2014, 03:38 PM   #105
970001zj
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yeah the eco boost is mostly a big turd
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