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Unread 02-06-2014, 11:20 PM   #76
Ryno82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo_90xj View Post
Long period of idling with a cold engine is a BIG no!!!

Keeping the engine idling when really cold is just asking for trouble. You have the oil very thick, and very low RPMs preventing proper lubrication to all engine parts. Bare minimum is to have high idle (around 1200-1400rpms) to keep the oil pressure high enough and oil flowing. There are many studies which show extreme wear on (cold) engines if they are idled when it's cold outside.
I've noticed on cold mornings my jeep will start out with a high idle and work its way down to a normal idle speed. Is that to counter-act this issue or is my jeep just that smart?

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Unread 02-07-2014, 02:20 AM   #77
jdn112011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetzj View Post
I want to represent the Minnesotans on here and say that 5 degrees is t-shirt weather. Unless your battery is old, you'll be just fine, maybe tap the throttle just a bit when you're starting it if you have a weak fuel pump.

I was actually just gonna post if I should run mine occasionally during this spell of -23 nights and -13 days, but I'm sure some Alaskan or Canadian will respond that I'm a wimp.
Well you see, I'm also minnesotan but I live ten minutes from the canadian border and it gets damn cold here. Middle of the planes in Roseau Minnesota and trust me guys wind chill does make a difference when your car is parked in the wide open -55 wind chill, -30° + for weeks straight. I run 10w-30 conventional in my 95 5.2zj and 10w-30 synthetic in my 93 5.2 zj. Both have about 195k give or take. I have good batteries, run approximately 60/40 coolant and I have never ever used my block heaters in either one. And they have never left me stranded. They're reliable and stand up to the cold. I'd never worry about 5 above zero anywhere just give your good Ol zj a little while to warm up. Start getting -15 I'd start looking at having good coolant and a strong battery. But you've got 20 degrees to go for that. And in case anyone is wondering, I work 12 hour overnight shifts from 7pm to 7am without my zjs running or plugged in the entire night, so they sit 13 hours, which is entirely cold leaving at the coldest time in the morning at sunrise. Just let your truck warm up. And even with a warm motor; when you start driving, your tranny is still cold so take it easy driving at first. Coldest i've seen ever is the hydraulic fluid in my power steering will virtually lock up for a couple minutes. This happens in both the 93zj5.2 and the 95zj5.2 also in my 01 mercedes Clk320. So i'll stand up for Minnesota weather here because I'm basically in Canada. And i'll stand up to a zj starting without a bit of concern. P.S. welcome to a real winter. Haha.
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Unread 02-07-2014, 05:28 AM   #78
Timo_90xj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfieZJ View Post
IMO , if you don't have the ability to heat/clean off the windshield , you are a danger on the road . Vehicles and parts are replaceable , you have only one life . Why endanger it
I always scrape my windshield and side windows before leaving the parking lot.. window- scrapers are like what.. 1$ a piece? Heck, even the high-tech metal versions that remove even the most stubborn ice are only a few dollars

I rather buy a 5$ scraper than destroy an engine that would cost between 4000-6000$ to rebuild across here Like I wrote, anyone can do whatever they want with their vehicles, but I'm trying to give people some info on how much damage cold weather idling can do. It's not like the engine is gonna explode if you do so, but it will cause extra wear compared to driving it nice and easy.

As far as high idle after initial start up, that's what just about any EFI/ MPI- engine does in cold (engine needs more fuel in cold to keep running -> IAC controls the amount of air in relation with fuel -> higher RPMs). Usually the RPMs aren't much higher than around 1000-1200rpm, and only for a couple minutes before dropping down to normal. At least that's how it's been with all my EFI/ MPI vehicles so far.
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Unread 02-07-2014, 02:30 PM   #79
micahdonahue
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When I lived in Minneapolis (I know, tropical compared to many posters here) I used to just bring my battery inside the house if it was going to drop below around -10F. Took maybe 2 minutes to remove/install (with gloves on). That was a 97 TJ with a few year old battery and a VERY cheap owner.

Here in MA, so far down to -5F, the JK has been just fine. A little stiff driving the first couple miles, but no issues starting up.

-Micah
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Unread 02-07-2014, 07:53 PM   #80
lesPederson
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come on -- up here in Canada we live -25C for 4 months -- that's -13F (with -40C windchill sometimes) in your world. Both My 2001 and 2002 Cherokee's start every time. I don't plug in a block heater. Nothing, Point the auto start at them and they starts. everytime. It's a jeep, why won't it start. There have been times that you can't even see the Jeep because it's under slow and it still starts.
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Unread 02-07-2014, 07:54 PM   #81
lesPederson
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oops -- Under SNOW -- that is
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Unread 02-07-2014, 08:29 PM   #82
wjkrostek
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I'm on the side of not idling a cold engine for more than necessary. I live in a cold area and I have read many books on different engines like when I buy a new tractor. They all say never idle an engine for than a few minutes and if you have to then keep the rpms up above 1200. Most people will disagree but its not from knowledge that they think this, it is just what they always have been told and it feels better to get into a warm car. One thing to remember is when you start to drive go slow at first. you can idle it for ever and the dif and wheel bearings will still be cold. Hey it's your car do what you want, your the one that has to pay for it. As for me I will drive as soon as it's safe and drive slow until it warms up. This usually only take a mile or two in a car. If it takes longer which unless you live in real cold it will not. Plug your radiator with some paper or something. We all know wind chill means nothing to a machine unless your trying to retain heat. So driving 60 miles per hour will give you the same wind chill as a 60 mph wind. Your fan at an idle if you have one that runs at start up will cause a wind of 10 to 20 MPH. Just be careful not to plug her up to much. Keep your eye on the temperature until you get it right.
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Unread 02-08-2014, 11:34 AM   #83
242cid_xj
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For the winter months: 5w30 motor oil, an engine block heater, and a remote starter and you're good to go! Use the block heater as much as possible as a warm motor puts less stress on everything during start-up but remember that even in the coldest weather only a couple of hours is all that is needed to warm the block; anymore is just wasting electricity.

From my engine block heater install (overly simplified):
1). Drain coolant (best to do during a coolant change)

2a). Take some stuff apart and out of the way...
2b). Knock OUT (not in) the frost plug.


3). Install block heater.

4). (Put stuff back together) Refill coolant, start motor, and check for leaks.
5). Plug in heater and check that it heats up (you'll hear it) Note: never plug in the heater without any coolant in motor as it will burn up the heater.
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Unread 02-08-2014, 09:16 PM   #84
MaintMech
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Timo and jdn112011 have it right. Start it and idle for 1-2 min. Then drive easy for 5 min. Unfortunately where I work it's about a two block drive and into 50 MPH traffic. I hit the right lane and hold at 45 MPH until the temp hits about 160 Deg. Then we drive home at the limit.

Long idles at low oil pressure ( I don't care what the gauge says, the flow! is what matters) is bad for your motor.
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Unread 02-08-2014, 09:51 PM   #85
newfieZJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo_90xj View Post
I always scrape my windshield and side windows before leaving the parking lot.. window- scrapers are like what.. 1$ a piece? Heck, even the high-tech metal versions that remove even the most stubborn ice are only a few dollars

I rather buy a 5$ scraper than destroy an engine that would cost between 4000-6000$ to rebuild across here Like I wrote, anyone can do whatever they want with their vehicles, but I'm trying to give people some info on how much damage cold weather idling can do. It's not like the engine is gonna explode if you do so, but it will cause extra wear compared to driving it nice and easy.

As far as high idle after initial start up, that's what just about any EFI/ MPI- engine does in cold (engine needs more fuel in cold to keep running -> IAC controls the amount of air in relation with fuel -> higher RPMs). Usually the RPMs aren't much higher than around 1000-1200rpm, and only for a couple minutes before dropping down to normal. At least that's how it's been with all my EFI/ MPI vehicles so far.
If your so concerned about your engine , why run 5w oil ? I run 0w all yr round in every jeep I own . Gonna run it in my hemi when the warranty is done .

As for the windshield , you are not understanding me . Scrape your frozen glass all you want . That's fine . What I'm talking about is when the t-stat opens , suddenly hits warm air on a cold glass and fogs it up . Then the cold glass freezes the condensation . Now , your doing 30-50 mph , you can't see , and your handy $1 scrapper fell on the floor at the last turn .

Doesn't always fog up , but , it's not pleasant to have happen suddenly .

I'll let you guys hammer it out , I have no worries . Both my 5.9's fit in my heated garage no prob
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Unread 02-09-2014, 01:29 AM   #86
MichWrangler
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I am running 5w30 synthetic and a new mopar battery in a '97 4cyl (Starter is original I think). Starts every time, I let it idle for about 5 minutes to get things flowing nicely, then crawl uphill to the main road. No problem.
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Unread 02-09-2014, 04:09 AM   #87
Timo_90xj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfieZJ View Post
If your so concerned about your engine , why run 5w oil ? I run 0w all yr round in every jeep I own . Gonna run it in my hemi when the warranty is done.
5W cold viscosity is usually low enough on the temps we get here, extreme lows usually only last around a couple weeks. If I lived higher up north where -15...0 temps usually stay for around two months, I'd probably use 0W-30 or something similar.

Quote:
As for the windshield , you are not understanding me . Scrape your frozen glass all you want . That's fine . What I'm talking about is when the t-stat opens , suddenly hits warm air on a cold glass and fogs it up . Then the cold glass freezes the condensation . Now , your doing 30-50 mph , you can't see , and your handy $1 scrapper fell on the floor at the last turn.

Doesn't always fog up , but , it's not pleasant to have happen suddenly.
I do understand. I know exactly what you're talking about, but on the very cold days humidity on the air is very low -> windows almost never fog up or re-freeze on that weather from the inside - apart from possibly the driver/ passengers fogging 'em up with their exhalation

Keeping the air blowing at fairly high speed onto windshield from the very beginning you fire up the engine and you should have no issues. In my experience, windshield tends to fog up/ re-freeze in higher temps, but even then it doesn't usually do that if you scrape the windows and let the vehicle idle for that minute or two. I guess local micro- climate plays a role too, I live right next to sea (300ft. from my parking lot), which usually doesn't freeze before Jan or early Feb. I ALWAYS have to scrape my windows from fairly thick ice, when on the other hand friends living just a few miles north don't. It's kinda weird really, how such little changes can make such a big difference.


I hear you on that re-freezing - if it does happen, it really does suck big time. On the other hand, I've always had that happen within just a few hundred feet and usually on warmer weather (around thawing temps when it's moist, but just cold enough to freeze). Heck, my Jeep windshield fogs up much worse during moist summer months on warm days than it does in winter I know I have an issue with the HVAC box though, it's gotta be filled up with wet leafs and all sorts of goo..

Quote:
I'll let you guys hammer it out , I have no worries . Both my 5.9's fit in my heated garage no prob
Heated garage would be nice, but if you drive daily it does cause a lot of water condensation inside body cavities (on the vehicle, that is) and causes it to rust from the inside out. Wanna hear more on that? I prefer a cold semi-open parking garage like I had in one of my apartments, I never needed to scrape the windows, and never had issues with re-freezing.

All that being said, with vehicle prices like there in the States I probably wouldn't really even worry. But when you need to pay +30k dollars on a new VW Golf 1.4FSI, or when new Jeep Wrangler and Grand Cherokee prices start from between 55- 60k, it tends to make you worry about little things. 5+ year old used vehicles cost the same what those very same vehicles cost there when new.. it's not just gas prices that are crazy high in Finland. Gotta love the eco- hippies
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1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 LX daily driver, 1.75" BB, 32" KM2s, HPD30 Eaton e-locker/D44a stock LSD, 4.56 gears, custom- fabbed tube bumpers and tube fenders,...

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/d...s-etc-1222317/


1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
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Unread 02-09-2014, 06:33 AM   #88
newfieZJ
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my garage is heated to just above freezing , not hot unless I have to work out there . My doors and panels have been oil sprayed on the inside , the won't ever rust .

Your new Grand cherokee pricing is about the same as here except 60 is almost srt-8 pricing here. Double what they are worth IMO
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Unread 02-09-2014, 07:12 AM   #89
Timo_90xj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfieZJ View Post
my garage is heated to just above freezing , not hot unless I have to work out there . My doors and panels have been oil sprayed on the inside , the won't ever rust .
Well, that's how it's supposed to be then

Quote:
our new Grand cherokee pricing is about the same as here except 60 is almost srt-8 pricing here. Double what they are worth IMO
Actully, I remembered incorrectly: Grand Cherokee 3.0 CRD limited is listed at 82 990.92€, which is slightly over 110k$. Wrangler Sport 2dr. 2.8 diesel (gasoline version not imported unless specially ordered) 55 995,74€, which is around 75k$...

SRT-8 over here is listed at 149k€, which is around 198k $ Base vehicle price is 79k€ (~100k $), the other 70k€ is from the CO2- based environment and vehicle sales tax. Crazy stuff..

Finland is one of the very few countries within the EU that taxes vehicles so damn hard. Prices before CO2 + vehicle sales taxes are pretty competitive with other EU- countries, but the mentioned taxes increase price by 50-100% depending on the emissions. Not surprisingly, average vehicle age here is now around 12.8 years - which is worse than in many low-GDP east- European countries. ..and this hell-hole is supposed to be in the top-10 of most developed countries in the world


But, we're veering seriously off-topic now
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1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 LX daily driver, 1.75" BB, 32" KM2s, HPD30 Eaton e-locker/D44a stock LSD, 4.56 gears, custom- fabbed tube bumpers and tube fenders,...

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/d...s-etc-1222317/


1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
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Unread 02-09-2014, 07:25 AM   #90
newfieZJ
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Not gonna quote you Timo , I don't want anyone to read those prices twice .

You should try Castrol 0w-30 though , best oil I ever used . I hesitated for almost a year on it , then tried it . It's not only better for cold starts , but , also , I have not heard a start up tick I had since using 0w-30
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