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TeraFlex Now at Rockridge 4WD! BEST DEALS around!Alloy usa heavy duty ball joint kitsENGO QUADLUX 6" to 54" LED AMBER AND WHITE MULTI

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Unread 03-21-2012, 11:05 PM   #121
billzcat1
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The front diff breather comes right out of the top and vents at the top of the driver's side shock.

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Unread 03-21-2012, 11:16 PM   #122
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I will go under there over the weekend again and look around. Anything on the rear?
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Unread 03-22-2012, 12:03 AM   #123
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billz is right thats exactly where the front breather is... the rear is where I initially thought it was. see pg 8
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Unread 03-22-2012, 12:39 AM   #124
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Right I see the posts, thanks man! Ill take a look.
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~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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Unread 03-22-2012, 06:22 PM   #125
billzcat1
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Crawled under the Jeep, saw in ChrisHager's build thread where that rear breather is as his popped off while installing a lift. It's on the driver's side, looks like a T to the brake line but is not. Mine's ok, still attached, no cracks.

Spent about a half hour inspecting stuff. Also found - slight leak around oil filter gasket, slight leak from oil pan drain plug (crappy Dorman aftermarket plug), leak around transmission pan, slight passenger side valve cover leak, front and rear LCAs have small tears in the outer bushings (the big oval ones). Front axle-side UCA bushings look "not good". So, I've got a few projects coming up. Can't wait to go back to work and get some cash to start fixing stuff!

I don't need adjustable arms for the lift height I'm at and I don't have any specific symptoms I'm looking to address. So deciding between stock (replacment) arms and something with a free-pivoting bushings is going to take some thought. After all, my stock arms have taken a beating so far and held up pretty well, especially considering they were already 8 years old when I asked them to start wheeling. Thoughts from those who are crawling this thread are welcome.
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Unread 03-22-2012, 06:26 PM   #126
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My thoughts are errrm yeah given the advanced trajectory momentum integral of your differentiated parabola you would be better off with a lighter engine so errrm yeah look like the only option is for us to trade jeeps... Hahah! But more seriously i think you'll be fine with the stock arms if not IRO adjustable lowers are not unreasonable not sure what lift ranges they're for.
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Unread 03-22-2012, 06:29 PM   #127
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I would also suggest some IRO arms. I mean the factory control arm bushing and or the arms with the bushings probably will cost a pretty darn good amount of cash. See how much IRO lowers cost compared to stock arms... that'd be a good place to start in my opinion.
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~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

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Unread 03-22-2012, 07:17 PM   #128
billzcat1
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Yeah, but the IRO arms use solid rubber bushings at both ends whereas the factory arms have the oval "voided" bushing axle-side to allow the axle to twist with respect to the arm. I think that would actually limit flex, especially if they are vulcanized rubber bushings. Jeep did something right with their bushings. Bushing compliance is required for solid axles to flex.

So I'm looking at various arms with a flex joint on one end. Of course these also come at a premium cost. "Stock" aftermarket arms run about $50 a pop. Adjustable arms with a single flex joint seem to be $200-250/pr. I probably have a whole season before I need to do anything with these arms; the bushings are just slightly tweaked, tiny cracks forming. I may compromise and do stockish rears and adjustable/flex fronts.

Also read the service manual on the upper axle-side bushings, looks like I'll have to make the Jeep "special tool" to remove and install the bushings. Pipe fittings to the rescue!

As mentioned, I don't really have any symptoms to speak of so I'm not in a rush, just did a "State of the Jeep" and found some opportunities. Transmission is due for a flush, I'm coming up on 30k since I bought the darn thing (and it had all services "complete" when I bought it from a Jeep dealer). So that will fix the seeping from around the trans pan.
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Unread 03-22-2012, 07:40 PM   #129
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I was reading around on the internet and I came across this article here and it had mentioned as you did about the required flex of the bushings for the axle to flex properly with out binding. I was checking Rock-Auto and that is the price I got for the Stock Control Arms. But they are not Mopar, if that makes a difference. But maybe stock arms may be the way to go again if you are not having any issues with Castor and such.

Difference between Flush and a Drain/Refill?
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~ 04 WJ 4.0 | Selec-Trac 242 | MBP | OME HD 3" Lift | JKS TB | IRO Front LCA's and UCA's| Bilstein 5100's | Custom Front D.S. | Stillen Rotors/Metal Matrix Pads | Tow Package w/ 3.73's | Projectors w/ 55w HID H1 5000K Lows | Sylvania Ultra 9005 Fogs | Moog HD Steering | Kenwood eXcelon Radio | Memphis Speakers | Alpine Amps | Alpine Subs | Moog STB SS | Superchips Flashpaq | Auxiliary Transmission Cooler | Rock Lights | Light Bars ~

~ Snobrdrkid's "Build" Thread ~ YouTube Channel ~ Fuelly ~WJ 4.0 Transmission Cooler Info ~

~ 05 Rubicon Unlimited 4.0 | 6-Speed | Dana 44's | Air Lockers | 4.11 Gears | Rock-Trac 241OR T-Case with 4:1 4-Low | 2" Spacer Lift | 245/75/16 Kevlar MT/R's on Moabs | Hansen Offroad Steel F/R Bumpers | Warn 9000xi Winch | Edge Performance Chip | Custom CAI | Hella Off-road Lights | Cobra 29 CB | Flash Lights | Recovery Gear | Fire Extinguisher ~

-Michael-

For Sale:
Front XJ/TJ 2" Budget Boost. PM for details.
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Unread 03-23-2012, 12:05 AM   #130
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Are the stock uppers on the WJ were boxed like the lowers...it has been too long. If they are, i would just pull them and toss new bushings into the axle and stock arm. No reason to replace the arm unless it is bent. I ran my factory upper arms on my ZJ with 4.5 inches of lift without any problems, those arms were not boxed. I was going to box them with some 1/8 steel I had laying around when I replaced the bushings. But when i saw that they were just fine, no bends or kinks, I just replaced the bushings.
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Unread 03-24-2012, 12:18 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billzcat1 View Post
So I'm looking at various arms with a flex joint on one end. Of course these also come at a premium cost. "Stock" aftermarket arms run about $50 a pop. Adjustable arms with a single flex joint seem to be $200-250/pr. I probably have a whole season before I need to do anything with these arms; the bushings are just slightly tweaked, tiny cracks forming. I may compromise and do stockish rears and adjustable/flex fronts.
I was thinking of arms with Johnny Currie joints, basically a heim joint with bushings on the side. Do you think these have any negatives associated with them, like not that great on the highway, rough ride etc?

Cool video here http://www.currieenterprises.com/ces...nnyjoints.aspx
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Unread 03-24-2012, 02:47 PM   #132
billzcat1
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I have been researching Johnny Joints specifically as that is one of the better-regarded flex joints for Jeeps. So far, my preferred choices are between JKS arms (which use rubber on both end but pivot freely in the center of the arm) or IronMan Fab arms with a rubber bushing on the axle side and a JJ on the body side. IronMan also offers dual-rubber arms and dual-JJ arms, but the dual-rubbers have me concerned about flex and the dual-JJ have me concerned about cost. Likewise, the JKS arms are quite spendy, MSRP is $405/set, although I have found them in the $330 range in casual shopping.

My own personal experience with Heim joints is that they have no place on a street-driven vehicle. Heims are expensive, wear quickly, and have no way to accommodate wear/slack in the joint. The result is a clunking joint that needs to be replaced frequently. John Currie echos this in that video. I used to build/assemble Formula Ford suspensions which are entirely Heim-based. After a racing season the joints would get replaced. But in all honesty, a street-driven vehicle sees more miles in a week than the FF would in a season, and sees far worse weather and road conditions to boot. I built more than a few sway bar end links back in the day (using Heims) but they just weren't acceptable for a street-driven vehicle.

So Johnny Joints are supposed to solve those problems by wrapping the ball joint in poly. Still, the joint isn't sealed so it is not impervious to grit, salt, and other contaminants. The good news is that they are easily rebuildable and replacement Urethane bushings are $9 each. I've been doing searching to see what people report for daily drivers using JJs. So far, it's all positive...with the caveat that you should grease them often.

So after all that waffling, I think (based on the research I've done) that Currie's JJs would be an ideal choice for a daily driver that sees trail time.

To be totally honest, I don't have any major issues with stock arms. Just that the bushings are starting to tear after almost 10 years on the road and a dozen trail rides. And to be totally fair to the stock arms, I neglected to loosen/retorque all the bushings after lifting. I wound up doing this about 8000 miles (and several trail rides) after I did the lift, so they saw more stress than they should have. There goes me not applying what I learned whilst lowering cars to lifting Jeeps. So in all likelihood, I could pop some new stock arms in there later this summer and be happy with them. But of course I have the itch to mod...

Another consideration... there's really nothing special about building control arms. The IronMan arms are big, beefy, and nicely made, but I have the tools and skills to make them myself (with a little help on the welding). At the end of the day, they are just straight arms with rod ends in them. So, that's a consideration as well.
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Unread 03-25-2012, 01:12 AM   #133
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I got an almost new set of those Iron Man arms without the JJ's for a pretty good deal by Canadian standards which is probably on par with full price for you guys in the states. shipping and customs just kill us up here. I need new control arms anyhow and figured they would be a lot tougher and it would be nice to be able to adjust the pinion angle. It would be pretty easy to weld in a set of JJ's on these I figured but was wondering how JJ's effected death wobble in that they don't stop the axle from sliding side to side. I know thats what the track bars for but you wonder when you go aftermarket. I think I will try them out initially and see how much they limit articulation to begin with.
std-lca-f.jpg  
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Unread 03-25-2012, 03:03 PM   #134
billzcat1
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I don't think control arm bushings should be responsible for lateral axle control, that's the track bar's job. The reason that bad (OE-type) control arm bushings contribute to death wobble is that the axle is allowed to move front and back uncontrollably, which then changes the steered angle of the whole axle, intitiating the DW.
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Unread 03-25-2012, 03:14 PM   #135
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In other news, I have been pricing out building arms the way I want to using a combination of Johnny Joints at axle-end and RE rubber bushings at body end. Unfortunately, the best pricing I can find on builder parts doesn't actually result in much in the way of savings. I'd be in just over $100/arm for a single JJ rod end, a nice hex sleeve/jam nut, a weld-on bushing sleeve w/lubed bushing, plus the cost of the steel hollow bar stock. And I'd still have to design, cut, bend, and weld the assembly. At $260 for a set of comparable IronMan arms, I'm not really saving much. Work all day to save $60? Plus I have to be concerned about setup expense, wasted material getting things dialed in correctly, always a concern from my days as a machinist. So at most I'd save what, $30 and spend all day on it? Bah! Builder parts are just expensive enough to make you reconsider DIY projects.
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