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Unread 11-22-2011, 05:34 PM   #91
compcrasher86
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1998 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Marblehead, MA, Henrietta, NY
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Good information and I can totally back you up that the sway bars are often skimmed right over people don't realize how important they are. At 2" of lift I could tell the bar was bottoming out to early and youd start rolling into turns and then hit the limits of the rear bar and it would have an odd unbalanced snapping feeling whereas stock your springs will have a chance to dampen some of the body roll first as jeep intended it. By resetting those link heights and putting the bars at the right angle again you get forgiving yet tight feel as the jeep leans tight into the turns. The snappy whippy off balance feel was pissing me off and it was also tossing my head side to side which is why initially I removed the rear bar but to anybody considering doing that I would highly advise against it and getting the correct sway bar links because it was really unsafe and the handling was scary without the rear bar... It eventually was so bad I took a drill a saw-zall, and a grinder to my axle bracket to be able to get the old bolt out so I could put the bar back on.

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Unread 11-22-2011, 06:21 PM   #92
=KZ=
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so the front sway bar should be about 30 degrees from level as I take it. what angle shoulld the back bar be relative to level?
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Unread 11-22-2011, 06:42 PM   #93
alwaysHI
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the back sway bar endlinks should be extended to the amount of lift you have.
front sway bar should be between 25 and 30*
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BUILT, NOT BOUGHT - WORKED HARD FOR, NOT KISSED MOMMY/DADDYS A** FOR!
Build Thread - http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f197/alwayshi-build-thread-1256466/ - SOLD
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Unread 11-23-2011, 09:19 AM   #94
Upside
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2002 WJ 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billzcat1

I've spent more effort than most on tuning sway bars. The amount of work I put into sway bar end links has been more than the entire rest of the lift. However, it has made a night and day difference in ride quality and handling. And then I post it here so people can see my conclusions, see what works/what doesn't, and skip all the extra work.

When the sway bars end links are out of whack, the weight transfer in corners feels unnatural and suspension travel can reach a binding point at odd amounts of travel, as if you had a bump stop or a limiting strap that you hit when you're just driving on the street.

Upside: I did the measurements from tire to frame rail using a specific point on the rail and tire tread that made sense. Unfortunately I can't really describe what I did more precisely than that. It just made sense when I was in there and it worked. I did before and after and the axle shifted over about 3/4" IIRC with the JKS track bar and the axle fully centered.
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I for one really appreciate the work you've done and posted billzkat. Like you I'm coming from the world of independent aluminum car suspension. I may upgrade my tie rod link and drag link early next year.

Thanks for the tips on the track bar and I can't wait to see how that front receiver turns out. I thought about adding hooks but I think I'll end up with a receiver instead.
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Unread 11-23-2011, 03:41 PM   #95
billzcat1
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2003 WJ 
 
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Location: Redmond, WA
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Oh the receiver is already in, I just wasn't happy with the Harbor Freight winch mount anymore. It's just too thin, around .100 wall tubing and winch plate. 1/4" is recommended, thinner and the winch itself can twist and be damaged. Receiver and winch install are on page 1, wheeling pics with it scattered throughout thread.
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Unread 11-23-2011, 05:41 PM   #96
Upside
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Ah I see, for some reason I though you were re-doing it. I'll go through the pics again.
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Unread 01-04-2012, 10:39 AM   #97
dizzle247
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1999 WJ 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Newcastle, WA
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awesome jeep .. I think I may have seen you driving around on 405 / bellevue area before.

I really like the idea of the front receiver/winch set up you have going on .. I'm gonna copy you if you don't mind since I take my WJ wheeling out quite a bit.

Hopefully I'll get to meet you in person some day and shoot the breeze about our WJ's.

FYI, I just did a snow run up tinkham/denny this last monday. I was the only rig (only grand cherokee in a sea of XJ/YJ/TJ/JK rigs) not to get stuck. I even yanked out a couple wranglers as well. Also, your rig is capable of doing this.



Came off that hill just fine. No damage to the front/rear bumper. I just inched it forward and it slid right down.
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Unread 01-27-2012, 03:14 PM   #98
billzcat1
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Somehow I missed your post - looks like fun! I've been up Tinkham a few times, last time was over a foot of snow and the rivers that cross the road were raging. That's quite the approach! I would definitely drag the winch doing that... one of the few downsides to the mobile-mount setup. I'll have to hit you up next time we plan a wheeling event. So far I have yet to see another WJ on the trail! I may have seen you around as well - that Emerald Green color is pretty uncommon on WJs.
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Unread 01-27-2012, 03:37 PM   #99
billzcat1
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Build Thread Update:

Not much new to report, there's not much I felt the WJ needed, plus with another kid on the way and my scheduled unemployment (contract work) I wasn't planning on spending any money on the Overland. But, there was one thing that I didn't like: the Harbor Freight mobile winch mount.

The HF mount fit nicely, but it was flimsy. The steel was all .100" thickness, just too thin. With a winch plate that thin, the plate can bend/warp under load and break the winch. So, on the advice on JF members, I picked up the Promark Offroad winch plate which was reported to be 1/4" steel all around. For $80, it sounded like a good value and I ordered through Amazon.com

Well, the first one I received had a major manufacturer defect. The hole for the hitch pin was offset .095" on one side, enough to make it impossible to pass the hitch pin through when it actually installed into a receiver hitch. So, I contacted the seller. No response to emails, so I filed a complaint with Amazon. That got their attention, and they sent me a prepaid return label as well as a new winch mount.

Lo and Behold, the replacement winch mount had the same defect. A little less awful, but still off. So I contacted the seller again, and their response was to just give me a refund and keep the defective product. So I was faced with the option of throwing it away or modding it work correctly. Why is that so common in the Jeep community?

So what I did was take a 21/32" drill bit and ream out the hitch pin hole a little until it fit. No big deal, got it to fit alright. But of course, the hole was too far back on the receiver mount. It was a perfect fit for the rear hitch, but in the front hitch it barely slid into the receiver. So I drilled another hole to suck the winch mount back against the license plate and clear up some approach angle.

The Promark Mobile-Mount is as burly as described, all 1/4" steel plate. The grip placement and design makes it a lot easier to handle the winch assembly, even though it is a little heavier, around 110lbs now. However, the fitment is really tight on the XRC8, and while the welds have good penetration, the winch mount is warped a little. It does not point straight forward, it's about 5-7° to the right. The handles are also a bit warped, you have to use the mounting screws to clamp them down onto the base. It's pretty clear that quality control is pretty much non-existent at Bumfrick, China where this is made.

Given that it turned out to be free, I can't complain. But I can also say that neither of the inexpensive winch mounts I have tried have turned out to be very good and the Warn, while spendy ($280) might be worth looking into. Since this one is very strong and functional, I'll be sticking with it.

And now for a couple pictures:






As you can see, the roller fairlead sticks wayyyy out there, I might pick up a Hawse.
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Unread 02-10-2012, 12:33 AM   #100
billzcat1
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Picked up a Moog Super Trail Boss steering stabilizer for just a tick over $50. Installed it, works great. Impacts no longer transmit through the steering wheel, it just feels solid. The original is tiny compared to this thing. My OEM SS was not totally shot, it still moved smoothly, but it was quite soft. The Moog is firm, and with this much fluid capacity should resist fade pretty well.

It's about 1" shorter at max extension than the stock SS, you'll need to move the mount on the tie rod inward to compensate. Make sure your wheels are pointed dead ahead, extend the SS to half its travel, and install in that position.





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Unread 02-20-2012, 09:17 PM   #101
Peediz
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Richard,

Looking back on your build, if you did it again, would you have put 3" OME or IRO coils up front and 2" in the rear or would you not change a thing? Just wondering because I'm slowly putting a build together and would love your opinion.

Also, did you get 245/70-17s yet? How snug is the tire in the spare holder? Would a 265/65-17 fit where the original spare was?

Love your jeep. Great job with the build thread too.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 02:29 AM   #102
billzcat1
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Thanks for the compliments!

Ahh no, I haven't picked up tires yet. There's still lots of meat left on my Silent Armors and I'm not going bigger until I need new tires.

As for the lift springs... the 3" IRO or OME HDs have crossed my mind, but I am happy with where I am now. I particularly like the spring rate on the BDS springs; they are the firmest available, and significantly cheaper than the OME option to boot. That leaves more money for other toys! Plus they are made in the USA, and I'm happy to have the chance to buy American-made parts for once. If they had a 3" option with the same spring rate, I'd be all over it so I didn't need the spacers. I like it as-is because when I put on the winch, the nose barely squats and I can't even feel the weight of the winch while driving - that's with 110lbs hanging as far out in front of the bumper.

I think the only thing I would have done differently is picked 31" tires in the first place and picked up the Warn winch cradle since I haven't really been happy with the ones I've tried.

Lots of people report the 245/70-17 fits snugly in the tire well. 265/65-17 is the same overall diameter but almost an inch wider. It should fit in the spare tire compartment, but cover would stick up above the level of the cargo floor.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 10:57 PM   #103
Peediz
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Thanks Richard. More money for toys is always good!

I asked about the tires because when it comes time for a lift I'm probably going the same route as you. I'd like to go with 265/65-17 because I like the look and stance of the wider tire. I'm worried about ripping out my fog lights though. Maybe 255/70-17 is more my route. Not sure. I'll ask compcrasher. He's got 255/70s.

Keep up the good work.
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Unread 02-22-2012, 02:28 AM   #104
=KZ=
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I have the 265/65/17s silentarmors and they look and ride well. Much better cornering than my 245/75/16's duratracs that I had. I can confirm the lid sticks up 3/4" too high for the spare.
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Unread 02-22-2012, 02:33 AM   #105
compcrasher86
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Looking into one of those Trailbosses myself... You think its worth the extra $20 or so over an OEM one?
Edit: too late I bought the super trailboss already lol. Amazon $58 with 2-day free shipping. All I needed to see were your pics and that made me remember I wanted one

So when you were putting it on did you measure the extended differences between the two and then move the mount in that much? I feel like it would be more effective than eyeballing the 1/2 extended and trying to line up the clamp while holding the SS at 1/2... although... I guess a SS isnt like a strut and it doesnt de-compress outwards without pressure on it... I dont know!
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98 XJ Sport | i6 | AW4 | 231 | Stone White | Agate Leather

SOLD 01 WJ Ltd | i6 | QT2 | Moog HD steering | Tow Package | Boston Acoustics Audio | RB1 | Lou's Catback | Stone White |

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