YJ Trans swap, BA-10/5 to AX-15 ** Write Up - Page 4 - JeepForum.com
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Go Back JeepForum.com > General Technical Discussions > Engines & Drivetrain > YJ Trans swap, BA-10/5 to AX-15 ** Write Up

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Unread 10-20-2011, 05:58 PM   #46
GrEmLiN
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1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwest, Connecticut
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Why are you asking me, apparently I don't know anything and you're the expert!

Can anyone help me with MY problems??

Edit: Seriously, I'm having difficulty finding the technical specs and answers I need as not all of my questions were answered by this (awesome) write-up. If anyone can help I would greatly appreciate it.

Please keep this thread on topic for the YJers that need it!

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Unread 11-18-2011, 03:37 PM   #47
Duvalbulldog
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Well I'm doing a swap this weekend and I have the transfer case for the ax15 and was wondering would it be easier to switch out the coupling or the speed sensor that comes in the newer transfer case with the mechanical speedometer gear thats in my twenty one spline transfer case.
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Unread 11-22-2011, 11:23 AM   #48
Duvalbulldog
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My question was anwered on a different thread thank you for the timely response. It's in and hopefully today I get to test drive it and not hear any of the whine or gear slap of the ba10
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Unread 11-22-2011, 11:37 AM   #49
Duvalbulldog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrEmLiN View Post
I have an 87 YJ, 4.2 BA10 (now dead) and I've got a 96 XJ AX15 (external slave)
I have some questions I could really use answered:
Pilot bushing. My trans has the 3/4" (0.750") tip, the BA I'm assuming used the smaller common 19/32" tip, or something different?
That said, correct me if I'm wrong, but there are two "stages" or steps in the crank snout to seat a bearing/bushing, right? The OEM part 53009180AB (a bearing?? can anyone confirm if this is a bushing or a bearing) (AX15 / 4.0, say, for a 94 YJ) uses the innermost step, whereas the other widely used bushing from the 73 CJ5 304 V8 uses the ... outer step? I'm sure Novak or Advanced Adapters can answer this when I contact them.

Next question, master cylinder throws...
The 87 master... why was I under the impression from somebody somewhere that using fittings and braided hose I could connect my old master to the new external slave and have it work fine, but here in this thread its been stated that they are NOT compatible? Which is true? I know both are 3/4" bore, I know late (91-95?) used one form of pin style (long) fitting to connect the hose at the master and the TJ's (97-03) used another pin style (short), where as the 87/88-91 uses standard fittings -- so what's the actual throw on both YJ masters / slaves?? Are they or are they not compatible?

231J 4wd linkage... reusing the 231AMC bracketry on the 231J, what exactly has to be done to make it a very stable, and non-binding setup? (Other than getting the correct brackets?) Could I just weld onto the bracket to extend it to the existing boss on the AX15?

I've been planning this swap for a while and at present I ONLY have the original 87 YJ gear and an XJ transmission.
(I already know about the XJ vs YJ tcase clocking issue, and either have sourced a YJ AX15 for the correct tail housing or will drill holes in the transmission. Not my top priority but I'd be interested to know what others who've done this swap have done.)
I still need to locate a 23 spline 231 transfer case, slave cylinder, pilot bushing, hydraulic hose, throwout bearing, and possibly another clutch disc as I believe mine to have become contaminated with oil.
Is there anything else I'm missing? I'm VERY interested to know MEASUREMENTS on the pilot bushings and master cylinders and what mods do I need to do?

I have heard in the past of using the new style masters but they use a stud and a bolt or something, opposing studs and they won't bolt up in place of the old master... I have no idea, I've read so far into this swap over several months that my head is spinning. I've become obsessed with trying to know all about this before going out and spending money. Once I see them next to one another I can probably figure it out but can anyone show me or explain what they did to get it to work? I do NOT wish to modify my firewall. What's up doc?

Sorry for the massive post of questions but I've been thinking non-stop about this swap every night when I can't sleep because I haven't had my Jeep in 2 weeks and the weather here in New England is getting colder every day. HELP!!!!
~Grem




To answer Cole's very rudely off-topic ZJ question (wrong forum),

Too many things are different to do that swap on your vehicle. Even the engine computer is wrong. . . and I don't know of any ZJ's that came stick. If any did they were rare and one year only and you would need the pedals, computers and entire electrical harness and likely extensive modification to the vehicle, floor pan, electrical systems, interior and firewall to make it all work. Buy something else.

So, no, you can't even do the swap without changing EVERYTHING. (Probably the engine as well would be easiest, shoehorn in a complete setup in one swoop.)

Also, I'm not saying it can't be done I'm just saying there's so much more to it than you think.
Hopefully this is not to late to answer your question but as far as the bushing I bought the master clutch kit and it came with both a bearing and a bushing maybe that will help. I was lucky enought to get an ax15 out of a 91 zj so I haven't had too much of an issue with it.
The master cylinder you do neet to change out or take off the coupling and it should thread into your old line. Thats what I did. The transmission mount is deffenitely different the ax is much wider and you will have to use a different one. The bell housig shoud bolt right up you will have to change the out put yoke on the transfer case if you were able to get the transfer case with it if not your ok. I used my old shifter with my transfer cas bolted on the two outside ones and then had to drill a hole for the one on the actual shifter bracket. let me know if your trying to use a newer transfer case as well. It's not a hard thing to do. I've ran into a few time consuming issues but so far they have been pretty spot on with the information pertaining to that year of transmission. I made sure I was able to get an older one that way I would have more a familiar feel for it and then I'm going to do the swap on the internal and external slave. It's what works for me. Hope this helps. If you have any more questions you can pm me or just post here.
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Unread 11-24-2011, 12:38 AM   #50
97CherokeeSport
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I have 8 write-ups on this swap and have seen about 3-4 videos of the AX-15 in a 1997 Jeep ZJ. All I need is time, tranny, driveshaft modification, cross-member, pedal setup, master/slave cylinder, might be missing something, and most important, luck!








Cole
P.S. what do you think of that reply?
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Unread 12-20-2011, 10:24 PM   #51
GrEmLiN
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I think it's grossly off-topic and you should start your own thread or even better, go do the swap, figure it out as you go or refer to your numerous write-ups and videos on the matter and go do your own thing.

No sense in getting into a pissing match with me. I would think you'd still need the ECM and a flywheel... I also don't see a clutch on your list of things, either. That's a pretty big something to forget when swapping in a manual trans!!





ANYWAY, back on topic:
I have my 96 XJ AX15,
a 92 NP231J tcase with the SHORT INPUT SHAFT (this is important and not mentioned in any other BA10/AX15 swaps I've read!) --- I called Novak Adapters and their customer service is bullhonky, don't waste your time with them if you don't have to or don't plan to buy one of their products. You don't spend money, they don't need to help you. So then I called my buddies at Advanced Adapters, awesome bunch of VERY knowledgeable folks there, told me right away what I needed to know--

The AX15s came in a couple of varieties:
Small pilot tip 19/32", large pilot tip 3/4"
Flush output shaft, extended output shaft (~0.430" stick out length from mating surface)--- if you have the flush shaft, you want the LONG INPUT transfer case (~2.1" stick out length from mating surface of tcase) -- the NP231 has overall 37 variations, all marked as NP231 on the outside. Far fewer apply specifically to these Jeeps/swaps though. -- IF YOU HAVE THE EXTENDED OUTPUT AX15, and the output shaft protrudes 0.430" (about half an inch) from the back of the transmission where it bolts to the transfer case, then you need the SHORT INPUT NP231, with a stickout length of about ~1.2" inches... (it's actually 1.19")

The 2.5L / Automatic used a funky/rare mid-length 1.7" input from what I've heard, but most of those should also be 21 spline not 23, although some made it through with both I think.

Bottom line is if you have long on the trans side you want short on the transfer case side, and vise versa. Pretty simple.



Next thing I learned, ABOUT THE TRANSFER CASE CLOCKING, very easy way to tell an XJ AX15 from a YJ:
I unfortunately don't have a picture to tell my story here but maybe one of these days I can make or take one as I have both a YJ and an XJ AX15 on hand. Anyway, the simplest way, at least it helps if the transfer case is separated from the transmission, look at the holes on the back of the transmission where the studs go through. If the holes are to the left, with a flat chunk of meat on the right side of the hole (where it looks like you would have room to drill another same-size hole to the right of the existing one) then its an XJ transmission. To the left of the hole would be an indentation cast into the transmission. If the hole is to the right with the meat (room enough to drill a hole to the left of the existing hole) then you have a YJ AX15.

The pilot tips got bigger when the slave cylinders went external I think.

I have almost all of my puzzle pieces and I'm almost ready to put it all together and slide it in my YJ but I'm waiting on a mount to show up via UPS. I still have a couple of things to figure out when I get to them, like: the transfer case shifter bracket from the BA10 mounting to the AX15. I don't know what kind of modification it will require but I'm sure I can handle it, so I didn't bother to spend the money on anything. But I believe Advance Adapters' NV3500 bracket might also fit the AX15 but don't quote me on that, I planned to call them and ask but figured since I wasn't buying it and I would just modify my original one, it didn't matter.

Now, a bunch of things that I ordered that I think will make my life a LOT easier when doing this swap:
I spoke to Advance Adapters and they said my original clutch master cylinder should still move plenty of fluid (internal throwout master) to move my external slave cylinder enough to disengage the clutch. That's what the guy told me on the phone, and I have heard it elsewhere as well. But most people I think feel they need to change it out because the 95 YJs with the external slave came as a one-piece pre-bled unit from the dealer but won't fit on the early YJ firewalls without modification. Whereas the parts Advance Adapters sold me will adapt my current clutch master to their NV3550/AX15 slave cylinder with their stainless steel braided clutch hose.

I got the following from Advance Adapters:
PN --- Description
716130F --- Fitting -3 Male to Male 7/16" x 24 Inverted flare (braided hose to Peugeot clutch master adapter fitting)
716130H --- 42" stainless steel braided clutch hose, -3AN fittings on each end. Note: also (typically) available with a 60" hose
716130TJ --- TJ Master Cylinder Fitting, this little guy I though was a mistake, but it is not. This is the fitting that adapts the clutch hose to the clutch external slave cylinder with a roll pin fitting.
716341 --- Jeep External Clutch Slave Cylinder for AX15 / NV3550 -- This unit comes with special bleeding instructions, as there is no bleeder port, despite appearances. Follow the instructions, they're easy and detailed.
723134 --- You need 2 of these, they are 5x16"-18 x 1-1/4" long steel bolts, for mounting the slave cylinder to the transmission.
I have a later style AX15 with the larger 3/4" pilot tip, so I also ordered
716164 --- .750" PILOT TIP / AMC BLOCK 1.818" this is the pilot bushing I needed for my AX15 to AMC 258ci/4.2L install. It must be soaked in 30W oil overnight to impregnate the alloy with the oil for proper pilot bushing operation.

ALSO, this is a HUGE help when replacing a BA10 with an AX15... I just ordered it tonight it's the last part of my puzzle just about
part number 716007 is an ADAPTER PLATE to adapt an AX15 or NV3550 transmission to the early YJ skidplate / crossmember that the Peugeot BA10 originally mounted to. It's an offset plate designed specifically for this conversion and it allows you to retain your stock exhaust mounting point on the crossmember as well as lines up all the existing holes in the crossmember with your new drivetrain. SOME early YJ skids had holes drilled for both transmission mounting locations... not all of them did, this mount kit also comes with the spacers and hardware needed to make this a bolt-in swap.

The clutch parts from AA were about $150 with shipping and I just ordered the trans mount adapter separate and it's $38 bucks plus shipping so it worked out to like $52 bucks for me. If it does what it's supposed to it will be money well spent.

The reason I went this route, buying this adapter mount... my AX15 is from an XJ Cherokee so it has the wrong mount entirely. Finding a used YJ AX15 mount was difficult to do.

NOW also, my shifter is from an XJ and is probably going to be WAY short for my YJ.... but I won't know until I install it. Afterward if it hits the tub or is too short to comfortably use, I can try to find an AX shifter on eBay for 40-50 bucks. Though I'd love to get the Hurst shifter it looks sooo pretty. $230 later...


I gotta say, I put MONTHS of research into this swap, including the nearly 2 months I was without my vehicle. Well, I still AM I haven't performed this swap yet... but somewhere along the line, something just CLICKED in my mind and suddenly I understood most of what I needed and what I didn't to get this swap done. I think the real moment of clarity came when I got hung up on by Novak and decided to call Advanced about the tcase input shaft length. That's when it all kinda came together and I knew what to look for.

If anyone has any questions about this, I don't know how often I'll check this thread so feel free to PM me to get my attention.

I hope this information helps, but usually with so much information comes so many more questions. If I can help I will try to!
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Unread 12-21-2011, 11:38 AM   #52
MY2nd89YJ
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Really not that hard...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrEmLiN View Post

I gotta say, I put MONTHS of research into this swap, including the nearly 2 months I was without my vehicle. Well, I still AM I haven't performed this swap yet... but somewhere along the line, something just CLICKED in my mind and suddenly I understood most of what I needed and what I didn't to get this swap done. I think the real moment of clarity came when I got hung up on by Novak and decided to call Advanced about the tcase input shaft length. That's when it all kinda came together and I knew what to look for.

If anyone has any questions about this, I don't know how often I'll check this thread so feel free to PM me to get my attention.

I hope this information helps, but usually with so much information comes so many more questions. If I can help I will try to!
So you haven't even done the swap but your going to try and help others.. Doesn't sound like a great idea.. I for one found all your info above confusing. Nice thought being helpful but why don't you try and do the swap before you tell everyone else a bunch of useless information.

I pulled my ba-10 out last night and put an ax-15 from a 90 YJ in. Start to finish it only took about 4 hours. It definitely was not rocket science by any means and everyone is going to run into different issues. The only things I ran into were the following:

1. The bracket had to be flipped on the 4x4 shifter linkage. (5 minutes)
2. I had to cut the floor a very small 1" x 1" spot for the back side of the 4x4 shifter to fit up through the floor. (5 Minutes)
2. The transmission mount was slightly different so it had to be modified. (15 minutes)

As for the pilot bearing if your unsure what one you need then measure the shaft! Don't try and over complicate everything and make it harder then it is. Just a thought but couldn't you just as easily pull things apart and figure out what you need rather then research for months.? again i only spent 4 hours on mine.

Original write-up was great nice pictures!
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Unread 12-21-2011, 12:24 PM   #53
GrEmLiN
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So you're criticizing me because I had more time to throw at this project than money?? This is the 3rd time I've had to drop the trans in this pig to futz with this junk Peugeot BY MYSELF and I'm tired of it, I wanted to make sure I was going ot do everything right the first time so I would never have to take this thing apart again.

You know where I do my work when I'm not working my 2 day jobs? On my back, in the street... not a driveway, not a garage, and I'm not paying some shop to do it for me. It's also winter outside, and I work by myself... I don't have a hell of a lot of time to work on this and I have even less money to throw at this!! If I have $25 a week to dump into my Jeep I'm lucky. I work a while, I save up, I buy parts... when I have all the parts to do everything *I* need to do, then I proceed.


The trans I bought was from an XJ and nobody knew anything about it. . . not the mileage or year or anything,. I had no idea what it was so I had to research it. What were the different variations of AX15s? Short shaft, long shaft, XJ, YJ, internal, external, etc.

I didn't have a transfer case to go with it... and with all the confusing information out there about clocking tcases and **** how was I supposed to know? I had to research. There's 37 variations of NP231 that all look nearly identical from the outside. I had to research to see which ONE variation I needed... and then, I'm in the Northeast, where everything revolves around money!! You know how much a junkyard or a shop or even private sellers on craigslist and stuff wanted for a transfer case within 150 miles of here?? $400!!! I was NOT spending $400 for a 90% chance of getting what I needed based on what vehicle they SAY it came out of, because if I get it home and a month later when I have all the parts I need to do my swap I find out it's the wrong tcase, I just ate $400.

What about my information is confusing? It's all there in black and white with part numbers and an explanation as to why I needed it for my project.

Now that I was able to get all of my TECHNICAL FACTS straight I'm in more of a position to answer questions and help others-- the people who just went to the junkyard and got the soup to nuts AX15 with tcase and shifter and everything attached to slide in in a few hours, well more power to them - I did NOT have that luxury or that kind of money.


If I had the luxury of parking my Jeep in my yard somewhere and pulling it all apart then yes maybe this whole thing would've gone a little easier for me. But it hasn't, because I don't.

I apologize if I seem a little defensive.
But it hasn't been as easy as all that for me, and free information is worth what you pay for it.... I've read too much conflicting information so I went and I researched it for myself.

Mostly what was difficult was figuring out which tcase goes with which transmission, then finding someone with a tcase for less than $200 within 100 miles of me that could take a measurement for me before I drove out with the money. . .


The other reason for researching for months before spending the money--- I didn't have the money to spend. I had the transmission for months in anticipation of my BA dying then finally when the clutch went for the third time I decided it was because of the bad transmission and that I was done screwing around with it, I was going to fix the weak link once and for all That's how this started for me, and on a water-tight budget. I've had so many unforeseen medical and personal expenses come up over the past 2 months that even 2 jobs isn't enough to fix my ****. When it rains it pours.


I'd still like to know what was so confusing to you. Sometimes it's just the way I explain things that's confusing, more so than the information.

Again, you bought your AX15 and the parts with it for your vehicle. My AX15 is from a different model, different year, different engine, different tcase, different shifters, different clutch, etc. My research was only to figure out what made my AX different and how to make it work for me.
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Unread 12-21-2011, 02:35 PM   #54
MY2nd89YJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrEmLiN View Post
So you're criticizing me because I had more time to throw at this project than money?? This is the 3rd time I've had to drop the trans in this pig to futz with this junk Peugeot BY MYSELF and I'm tired of it, I wanted to make sure I was going ot do everything right the first time so I would never have to take this thing apart again.

You know where I do my work when I'm not working my 2 day jobs? On my back, in the street... not a driveway, not a garage, and I'm not paying some shop to do it for me. It's also winter outside, and I work by myself... I don't have a hell of a lot of time to work on this and I have even less money to throw at this!! If I have $25 a week to dump into my Jeep I'm lucky. I work a while, I save up, I buy parts... when I have all the parts to do everything *I* need to do, then I proceed.


The trans I bought was from an XJ and nobody knew anything about it. . . not the mileage or year or anything,. I had no idea what it was so I had to research it. What were the different variations of AX15s? Short shaft, long shaft, XJ, YJ, internal, external, etc.

I didn't have a transfer case to go with it... and with all the confusing information out there about clocking tcases and **** how was I supposed to know? I had to research. There's 37 variations of NP231 that all look nearly identical from the outside. I had to research to see which ONE variation I needed... and then, I'm in the Northeast, where everything revolves around money!! You know how much a junkyard or a shop or even private sellers on craigslist and stuff wanted for a transfer case within 150 miles of here?? $400!!! I was NOT spending $400 for a 90% chance of getting what I needed based on what vehicle they SAY it came out of, because if I get it home and a month later when I have all the parts I need to do my swap I find out it's the wrong tcase, I just ate $400.

What about my information is confusing? It's all there in black and white with part numbers and an explanation as to why I needed it for my project.

Now that I was able to get all of my TECHNICAL FACTS straight I'm in more of a position to answer questions and help others-- the people who just went to the junkyard and got the soup to nuts AX15 with tcase and shifter and everything attached to slide in in a few hours, well more power to them - I did NOT have that luxury or that kind of money.


If I had the luxury of parking my Jeep in my yard somewhere and pulling it all apart then yes maybe this whole thing would've gone a little easier for me. But it hasn't, because I don't.

I apologize if I seem a little defensive.
But it hasn't been as easy as all that for me, and free information is worth what you pay for it.... I've read too much conflicting information so I went and I researched it for myself.

Mostly what was difficult was figuring out which tcase goes with which transmission, then finding someone with a tcase for less than $200 within 100 miles of me that could take a measurement for me before I drove out with the money. . .


The other reason for researching for months before spending the money--- I didn't have the money to spend. I had the transmission for months in anticipation of my BA dying then finally when the clutch went for the third time I decided it was because of the bad transmission and that I was done screwing around with it, I was going to fix the weak link once and for all That's how this started for me, and on a water-tight budget. I've had so many unforeseen medical and personal expenses come up over the past 2 months that even 2 jobs isn't enough to fix my ****. When it rains it pours.


I'd still like to know what was so confusing to you. Sometimes it's just the way I explain things that's confusing, more so than the information.

Again, you bought your AX15 and the parts with it for your vehicle. My AX15 is from a different model, different year, different engine, different tcase, different shifters, different clutch, etc. My research was only to figure out what made my AX different and how to make it work for me.
I'd just rather see what people that have actually done a job have to say when it comes to giving the advise. It seemed like you were giving advise rather than looking for it.. gets a bit confusing is all. I'm sorry your money tree is failing (so is mine) Good luck with the Jeep.
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Unread 12-22-2011, 12:48 AM   #55
GrEmLiN
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Thanks. Sorry to be so defensive... people have always judged my book by the cover.


This swap really is as easy as it should be, IF you arm yourself with the information you SHOULD know AHEAD of time. Which is why I put together my first huge post with what I've learned since asking questions in this thread originally.

I feel the information I have learned has become invaluable and as such I would like to share it with others in the hope that it will help them. If I had come across my own post months earlier maybe my Jeep would've been fixed a long time ago...

Happy Holidays...

My swap went fine. Using my parts list and getting the correct shifters helps make it a bolt-in swap.
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Unread 04-25-2012, 03:52 AM   #56
97CherokeeSport
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Thread Revive Time: Im doing a swap from the 42re to the AX15 on my 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ. I have a NP242 Selec-Trac t-case. Will this bolt up to the AX15? Im starting my swap tomorrow, the 26th of April 2012.
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Unread 08-20-2012, 10:58 AM   #57
evanjeep
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My peagoat just failed. My dad wants to rebuild it but im trying to get him to help me out with ax15 swap. I know i need ax15, bell housing, external slave, new pilot bushing, and a new out put shaft for the transfer case (23 spline) and adapter for transmission to skid plate. Am i missing anything?
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Unread 08-20-2012, 11:51 AM   #58
planedoctor
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Sounds like you listed all components. I had to modify my skid plate a little also. Basically sliding holes a little to fit new position of trans to skid plate mount. Also modifies the bracket that holds the exhaust. Good luck.
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Unread 08-20-2012, 12:05 PM   #59
evanjeep
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Would the advanced adapters kit be all i need? The only thing i dont see on there is a pilot bearing. http://www.advanceadapters.com/produ...it-only-np231/
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Unread 08-20-2012, 12:46 PM   #60
evanjeep
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And ill need a new clutch
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