Transmission Issue and Multiple thoughts... - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 13 Old 07-06-2017, 01:41 AM Thread Starter
JBHUsky
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Transmission Issue and Multiple thoughts...

Hey guys, been a really long time since I have been on here. Completely forgot about this place...work took the time away from me. Anyhow, I am back with a major problem and can't find the solution, even on here.

Soo...my transmission(42RE) as most already knows has a minor issue of the shift solenoid being out on the 1st and 2nd gear selection, which I have the kit to replace it......haven't done it yet, but seems I am now gonna do it as soon as I can figure out what is going on. Anyhow, aside from that issue, I had something weird happen about 2 months ago. I was driving to work like I always drive my ZJ, having to shift through 1st and 2nd. Well......I know its not a gearing issue...but...suddenly the transmission slowly faded out of gear as if it went into neutral. I pulled over to the shoulder still in drive. As I am sitting on the shoulder in drive, with my foot on the brake just in case, I can feel the transmission "try" to get back into gear. So I shift into neutral, wait a few seconds, then put it in drive......nothing. So I put it in park for a few minutes, while the engine is still running, then put it in drive......nothing. So I shut it off. I get out and check under the Jeep to see if I blew out fluids under the Jeep, nothing. I check the trans oil, still red and full. I get back into the Jeep, start it up, put it in drive......the transmission engaged. So I drive on to work......for about 2 minutes, then it slowly faded into neutral. So now I am losing my mind cause I am now running late to work. I called my dad up to get him to tow me home, he showed up about 10 minutes later. We ended up leaving my Jeep about a block from where I last stopped(ended up doing the shutoff and drive method to move to a better location).

Fast forward to later in the day. My wife and I went to my Jeep and tried driving it again. So I start it up and drive, this time I got a good 5 minutes out of it......probably cause it was cooled down, and the transmission faded again. So I did the Shutoff and drive method all the way home. I went to Jiffy Lube to see if they knew anything about what the issue could be...course the one near me doesn't work on transmission issues, just flushes(which is the same place I had the oil and transmission flushed when I first got the Jeep). I called up their sister store that does work on it, they couldn't tell me what the issue is unless I was there with it. I explained it to them that it would take me nearly an hour to get there(10 minutes if there were no issues or someone towed me), so I asked if they had any possible ideas that it could be. Same answer.

So I found a place where they do in-house financing for transmission work. Called them up and told them my situation. They said the same thing as Jiffy Lube Plus did. So since they offered "free" towing, I took them up on that and had it towed to the shop. Now keep in mind I told the guy about having to shift it manually into 1st and 2nd to drive it with no issues. By the time he got around to checking my Jeep out, I get the bad news. His conclusion is I need a transmission rebuild......which I was going to do that myself at some point. His reasoning of a rebuild is cause my transmission "slips"......I know it "slips" if you leave it in drive cause its starting in 3rd gear and it will continually slip til it gets up to speed and shifts into 4th. Now, when he told me this he also mentioned that he has been in the transmission business for over 40 years. So I ask him about my theory......my theory is that the transmission clutch pack is fine, but the torque converter is bad, so how much would it be to replace just that if it came to it. He didn't even want to talk pricing about the torque converter cause I have a "bad" transmission that needs a rebuild due to "slipping" in the clutch pack.

So I said ok, how much to do the rebuild......$1900. Since I don't qualify for outside loan services, his in house financing is this : $1000 to get started on the work, 1 week it will be finished and I can pick it up. Then its $300 a month for 3 months. If it goes any longer than 3 months if I can't afford the $300 a month, interest will be added. I told him that I didn't have the money and I would need the Jeep sent back. Remember when I said they had "free" towing......well, I had to go to the shop and pay $140 to get it towed back to my place. $70 one way. Which I wouldn't mind paying cause if I called, I woulda been charged almost $500 on my own.

So anyways, now that my Jeep is home, I have been having to move it around to keep it from getting ticketed......but now I got a new problem!!! I don't know if they opened up something or did something else to my transmission or what, but now after a week of being home and being moved around...I got a weird sound coming from it. But here is the deal, I start the Jeep up and leave it in park or neutral, no sounds. But as soon as I put it in drive, a whine/rubbing(kinda like a belt slipping, but more of metal on metal. I checked the fluid level, still full and red. I know its not grinding like gear skipping gear) sound is being made. But even still, I am able to put it in gear(1st) and drive it around the streets nearby until it slips out of gear as before. I honestly don't think a rebuild is needed, just a replacement torque converter.

I still need to rebuild the transmission no doubt, cause I don't know what the previous owner did when they owned it. But I need to get back on the road instead of stealing the wife's car to go to work. Out of the 2, nearly 3 years of owning this Jeep, I never had any major issues with the transmission. I did however have it slam into gear really hard 1 time. Didn't even rev it or anything. Was parked and shifted into gear. Next thing you know, BAM!!! It scared the daylights out of me, but I put it in park and shut it off for a few minutes after that little episode. But that happened over a year ago.

So, I know its not much to go off of, but based on what I am able to describe, what do you guys think??? Rebuild, or torque converter??? I need to get back on the road ASAP. I really have a feeling its just the TC failing and it needs to be replaced. I did find a thread with similar issues(http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/t...ssion-2167777/), but he had grinding, I don't. I do have the filter kit that came with the solenoid and am thinking it could also be the filter being clogged. I might just try changing the filter(and solenoid since I will be in that area) first and see what happens cause it was gonna be changed while doing either the TC replacement or transmission rebuild with TC replacement. But then that's why my thoughts go back to the new rubbing sound making me think the TC is bad.


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post #2 of 13 Old 07-08-2017, 08:50 AM
rjbruzan
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It sounds like your low on funds and want to keep this 21 year old vehicle. Trans problems NEVER get better while sitting or lasts long after slipping. The best way cheap way is to buy a used, hopefully lower mileage used trans and install it in your vehicle. A donor car lets you test drive the trans but from a wreck at a pick and pull is not a bad option either.
If you cant do the work yourself then paying to get it done is the next thought. At 2 thousand it might be better to just get a nicer vehicle.

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post #3 of 13 Old 07-24-2017, 12:26 PM
10berg
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Just on the off chance try replacing your throttle position sensor. Part was under 30$ and took less than 30 min. some of your problems sound somewhat like what I had happening and that fixed it. Worth a shot cause it saved me buying a new trans.

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post #4 of 13 Old 07-25-2017, 11:10 AM Thread Starter
JBHUsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10berg View Post
Just on the off chance try replacing your throttle position sensor. Part was under 30$ and took less than 30 min. some of your problems sound somewhat like what I had happening and that fixed it. Worth a shot cause it saved me buying a new trans.

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I don't think the issue is gonna be at the T.P.S.. I did have a thought that it might, but then I dismissed it quickly cause my engine responds perfectly fine. The reason I am asking for a little help with my theory is due to the fact that this 40 year mechanic claims that the clutch pack inside the transmission is going bad and is the reason for it not only slipping, but also causing it to drop out of gear. My mind tells me that it doesn't seem right. How can my transmission be slipping...that's where I got lost. When I engage the transmission to drive it around from spot to spot so I don't get ticketed, it engages like any other transmission...normally and drives normally......for a few or less minutes. If I screwed up on my initial attempt, need to adjust, and the transmission dropped out of gear. I have to shut it off for a few minutes, then start the process over again.

But now I get this squealing sound as if the pump(if there is one for a transmission) is trying to suck up oil, which is still full, but the filter must be really clogged up. I do have a filter kit and a solenoid replacement for my 1st and 2nd gear solenoid, but my wife lost it and i might end up buying another one if I can't find it. But I also think it might be the torque converter going bad. But to claim my transmission is slipping and that's the reason for it dropping out of gear makes no sense to me.

But that's where it confuses me tho cause if it did slowly disengage, wouldn't it grind a bit?! You know, cause the teeth are sliding apart or something??? Kinda like a manual transmission without pressing in the clutch, just trying to pull it into neutral and when it does, it grinds a bit. Cause if so, I don't hear a damn thing. When it doesn't move anymore, it sits there as if the clutch was pushed in, yet it feels as if the clutch was being feathered to where you are playing with the flywheel and clutch plate, causing the vehicle to lurch forward as if it wants to go, but can't cause its not gripping. So that's why I am theorizing that its either the filter badly clogged, or the torque converter is bad and not flowing the oil properly.

Wish I could load a video up to show what I mean.

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post #5 of 13 Old 07-25-2017, 01:03 PM
10berg
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For sure. Mine was slipping, disengaging, hard shifting. Had 3 shops and one 20+ year tranny guy I know all tell me it was the tranny.... the tps can make it do some real funny stuff. Just figured I would let you know. 30$ was more than worth the shot for me. Risks vs. Benefits... risk 30$ and 30 min of time. Benefits I didn't need to buy a new transmission. Just sayin. I'm not a mechanical expert so I can't speak on exactly what it could be but I know it sounds alot like what was happening to me and it was the tps.

I would definitely check/replace your fluid and filter tho too fyi. Look for metal in it.

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post #6 of 13 Old 07-25-2017, 10:08 PM Thread Starter
JBHUsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10berg View Post
For sure. Mine was slipping, disengaging, hard shifting. Had 3 shops and one 20+ year tranny guy I know all tell me it was the tranny.... the tps can make it do some real funny stuff. Just figured I would let you know. 30$ was more than worth the shot for me. Risks vs. Benefits... risk 30$ and 30 min of time. Benefits I didn't need to buy a new transmission. Just sayin. I'm not a mechanical expert so I can't speak on exactly what it could be but I know it sounds alot like what was happening to me and it was the tps.

I would definitely check/replace your fluid and filter tho too fyi. Look for metal in it.

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I get what you are saying. There are some sensors I do feel like I should replace just so I know its good. Anyhow, I made a video and uploaded it to YouTube. Sorry in advance for the breathing, was using my phone and had it near my mouth. Couldn't Find my GoPro. You can kinda hear the transmission, doesn't make a difference with the window open or closed, so I kept it closed so there isn't added sounds from outside.


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post #7 of 13 Old 08-08-2017, 07:51 AM Thread Starter
JBHUsky
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Well...seems I haven't been getting any responses about this. But can say that i managed to save myself from buying another filter/solenoid kit cause I found my original kit I bought. Now, I just gotta move my Jeep to a spot where I can work on it and replace the filter and solenoids. I don't have the Mopar gasket, but I do have some rubber gaskets it seems......can't remember where I bought it from...only thing is, it doesn't have the metal reinforced band in it...just a strip of rubber.

This is the kit I bought 2 years ago...or last year...can't exactly remember as my email starts deleting after a certain period or number of emails, automatically :
http://www.cascadetransmissionparts....cekit9397.aspx

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post #8 of 13 Old 08-18-2017, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
JBHUsky
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Ok, so I finally got to replacing the transmission filter. Didn't want to do any of the solenoids, which I should of since I was already down there and it was open. Anyways, I decided not to change the solenoids cause I wanted to hurry up and change the filter so I can get done and showered for the football game tonight.

Anyways, I found out that my filter was completely clogged. I couldn't flex it like the new filter, it was solid as a rock. Plus, it had a thick coat of sludge on the bottom of it. I dumped out the pan as well to make sure there is no more sludge at the bottom. No burnt smell at all and only fine metal, like a really fine dust. No shards of any kind found. Thankfully I didn't have to replace the gasket, no cork used here by luck.

Only issue I did find was that one of the solenoid bracket bolt had fallen out, the other one was firmly in place. I pushed on the solenoid to see if without the one bolt if it was loosely fitted, was firmly in place. So I put the bolt back in its place and hand tightened it down.

Reason I decided not to do any solenoid changes really is because I would rather save them for when I actually have a garage to do a complete rebuild, by dropping the transmission out of the Jeep and having easier and better access to them. Either way, after seeing the filter being as clogged as it is, I believe my Jeep is going to be in working order. I didn't test it yet as I just finished up bolting everything back up finger tight. After letting it relax overnight from being finger tight, I am going to go back under the Jeep in the morning and tighten everything down and fill it then. Then I will give it a test run and see what happens.

I would show you pictures of the old filter, but its currently under my Jeep with the oil catch tub and pan draining off. I want to let it run off whatever fluid/sludge it can being propped up and out in the open with the warm air so I can really take a good look at it. Will update and post a picture of it tomorrow.

One thing I will note, yes I know I am eventually going to do a rebuild on my transmission. But when I took my Jeep to the "40 years in the business" mechanic and asked him to get me back on the road by any means and telling him my theory of either the filter needs to be replaced, or the torque converter needs to be replaced, just so I can get back on the road and make money for the rebuild, he just jumped straight to the rebuild period and wouldn't consider the filter check or torque converter check. If all I needed was a filter replacement to get me back on the road, and my Jeep works again, I am soo driving my *** over to his shop and shove it in his face that he needs to consider all options, even if asked by the customer, for a simple job to get back on the road. Let them take the risk of needing a full replacement, not rebuild, transmission. They did the job that was asked, they are no longer responsible after letting the customer know the risks and consequences.

I talked to my other mechanic that I dealt with before with my Isuzu Rodeo years ago, and he told me I should of brought it to him, he woulda done what I asked. He also thinks my theory was valid, ignoring the fact that I am planning to do a rebuild down the road. But his initial diagnosis based off what I told him and without even seeing my Jeep and driving it to see what it is doing, he shot straight for filter saying that there may be a flow issue causing the solenoids and such from working properly. He did still suggest a rebuild as well, but after hearing what I had to say about what my plans are, he agreed that even if he got the Jeep he woulda done a rebuild at some point as well if he were in my shoes.

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post #9 of 13 Old 08-18-2017, 09:25 PM
wingless
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To remove additional old / contaminated fluid, unbolt the valve body from the transmission. Lots of additional fluid will be released. Compressed air can aid that effort.

There is also contaminated fluid in the cooler and lines. Compressed air could be used on the lines disconnected from the transmission.

The torque converter is filled w/ contaminated fluid w/ no way to drain and no way to flush. There are internal transmission locations holding contaminated fluid that can't be drained w/o disassembly, including the valve body itself.

All that sludge caked on the filter and in the fluid are from the thin frictions and bands. They don't start w/ much when new, so when they are worn down there isn't much left.


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post #10 of 13 Old 08-19-2017, 11:17 PM Thread Starter
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Well......lets just say I now am able to drive around without any dropout......BUT......its stuck in 1st gear and won't shift. I was thinking it was gonna probably be the same situation a what happened when my transmission issues started, so I stopped, shut it off, waited a few minutes, started it up, and tried driving around......still stuck no matter what I did. I was gonna drop the pan and replace the solenoids cause I only did a filter change and that's it, but got antsy and wanted to know if what I did worked. Now I am lookin at having to do just that...replacing the solenoids...anyone have any ideas or advice on what to look at before I crack open the pan again??? I should of just dropped the pan with it empty so I can have less of a mess and change the solenoids and also avoid buying more transmission oil.......but like I said, I got a little too excited thinking that the filter change is all I had to do.

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post #11 of 13 Old 08-20-2017, 06:54 AM
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Good progress.

The valve body has zero clearance spool valves and worm tracks that accumulate crud, even w/ the filter. Disassembly and cleaning is the only way to get the interior clean. as-shown in my 46RH Rebuild Topic. Compressed air, a toothbrush, a cleaner like Simple Green and strong garden hose water are the best way to get these parts clean. TAKE LOTS OF PICTURES, because assembly MUST be the reverse of disassembly.

The new clean fluid has been contaminated by mixing w/ the quarts of dirty fluid that remained after only dropping the pan.




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post #12 of 13 Old 09-07-2017, 08:01 AM Thread Starter
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I totally blanked and forgot to upload pictures of my filter. Here is the pictures I was going to post of my old filter. Am gonna be dropping the pan this weekend again to change the solenoids that I can easily get to. If any of them are difficult or giving me issues, they will stay. After watching a good number of YouTube videos from Cascade Mountains where i got my part kit from, I know the governor pressure solenoid will be easy for sure. The others are looking a bit weary for me as I don't have a garage to take the transmission out and have better access to everything.

I will post followup pictures of the new filter to see if there is any possible issues since installation. Hopefully there isn't anything else that may arrise.
Attached Thumbnails
Filter1.jpg   Filter2.jpg   Filter3.jpg  

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post #13 of 13 Old 09-11-2017, 12:04 AM Thread Starter
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ok, so......I changed one of the solenoids within the area of the filter. The other one could not be changed cause when I pulled it out to change it, it was a 3 pin connector, not 4 pin for my replacement. So I just changed the 1 and put it back together. Well......I am able to drive it around, no longer stuck in 1st, thank god......but......after nearly 15 minutes of driving, thank god I made it home, the transmission dropped out of gear again......sooo......am on the right track, but somehow still have the same drop issue.

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