[CB3]

Here's more about the lube problems that are occuring due to 2007 EPA law having reduced the phosphorus and zinc (ZDDP) in consumer oils. http://www.mustangforums.com/m_4741127/printable.htm http://forums.noria.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/616604995/m/369103333
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f53/gm-oil-zinc-phosphorus-content-56164/
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Zinc_Motor_Oils.aspx
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Zinc_in_Engine_Oils.aspx

This is why I suggested using oils that get around these problems by still having adequate phosphorus and zinc (European oils like Mobil One 0/40, High Mileage Oils of any brand, and bulk oils of any brand). That applies to both conventional and synthetic oils. All those type of oils offer the good stuff, but the European oils and High Mileage Oils do it at increase cost for the oil. Certain heavy duty bulk oils for mixed fleets (gas and diesel fleets) by Chevron, Shell, and Mobil do it for reduced costs because those oils tend to cost less (but are awesome oils).

One must be careful using diesel oils in a gas engine (even mixed fleet oils) becasue many diesel oils have to much additives, and that causes other problems for gas engines - such as dirty sparkplugs/valves, reduced plug life, cylinders, reduced gas mileage. Same with motor cycle oils, which can be even worse since to much lube additives and not enough cleaning detergents. I'll explain in more detail later. Some of the mixed fleet oils (for gas and diesel) are very good, but some have to much additives. One must read the spec sheets on the oil's additives, and have some knowledge about the subject. I'll post in detail on that later.

I hope this information is helpful to someone.

[CB3]

Here is another link of interest that explains more about the removal of additives, why they're needed (especially for 06 and older engines), and what oils have sufficient additives (zinc and phosphorus aka ZDDP).

http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

[Ridin' Around]

I have a fellow dealer who has been in this same discussion through a Stude forum. Here is the link to the discussion there...http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/sdc_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13193&SearchTerms=amsoil
I also have a customer of mine that races air cooled Porsches. He uses Amsoil's AMO 10w-40 just because of the ZDDP issues that you are discussing. Take a look at this link...http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/brochures/TSB_Flat_Tappet.pdf
Here is a link to the AMO...http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/amo.aspx
The European 5w-40 is also a nice oil for that application...https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/afl.aspx
Lots of info here especially in the stude forum link, but is worth reading IMO. And it may be just you and me left reading these but maybe not!

[jeep2008]

i see that CB3 you are so well informed,so please tell me, when i change my oil in a month about,is the mobil 1 0-30 the best for me?what filter should i use with it?facts:4.0 auto,40000 miles and oil temp allways above the middle.thank you!!

[CB3]

Originally Posted by jeep2008

i see that CB3 you are so well informed,so please tell me, when i change my oil in a month about,is the mobil 1 0-30 the best for me?what filter should i use with it?facts:4.0 auto,40000 miles and oil temp allways above the middle.thank you!!

I do like certain Mobil One products, but I don't like their 0/30 because the lube additives are insufficient, IMO. I have read their data sheet. Also, the viscosity is not enough for a 4L engine.

If you want to use Mobil One, then I recommend Mobil One High Mileage 5/40 since it has a more/better lube additives and that viscosity would hold up better/well at your op temps.
Another great oil to consider is Chevron Supreme Synthetic 5/40 made for high performance European and USA cars.

[Squeeky]

is this the stuff were all talking about here?

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=MBI&MfrPartNumber=98HC5 9&CategoryCode=4019B

this is the best?

[CB3]

Originally Posted by Squeeky

is this the stuff were all talking about here?

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=MBI&MfrPartNumber=98HC5 9&CategoryCode=4019B

this is the best?

Nope. Despite what parts America says, that Mobil One Extended Performance oil does not have extra antiwear additives. It does have extra cleaning additives though. It's "extended performance" is that it can go longer between oil changes, but that doesn't mean it's the best oil, nor even the best Mobil One oil.

The Mobil One oils that are best (more lube and cleaning additives) are Mobil One High Mileage 10/30 and 10/40 and Mobil One 0/40 and 5/40. Also, Mobil Delvac One 5/40. In addition to those, I also like Chevron Delo Synthetic 0/30 - if one is determined to use 0/30 (though I think other viscosities are better for the 4L engine). I also like Chevron Supreme Synthetic 5/40.

Those are my favorites that are available in USA. However in Europe, those and many other great choices are available since Europe has laws allowing better oils (more additives).

There is also such a thing as to much additives (some of the diesel oils), which is why I don't recommend Chevron Delo Synthetic 5/40 or Shell Rotella 5/40. They have to much lube and sludge cleaning additives.

To much additives clog cats and dirty spark plugs and valves.

Those oils I recommended are the best of the oils available in USA, as far as I'm aware.

Note: I don't recommend oils containing moly because although moly is great for increasing lubrication when the oil is new, it turns very acidic when oil is old and time to change it. Many racing oils have moly because it lubes well and oil is changed after each race. However, for daily driver vehicles, moly is inappropriate because the oil is not change that often. i.e. - not changed after racing hard for 500 miles. Instead, with a daily driver, the oil is changed every few to several thousand miles (making moly additive a bad idea for a daily driver motor oil).

[spyderbyte]

I started hearing rumblings about how Mobil 1 was a poor choice for the inline six because of the flat tappet design, and as CB3 explains, not enough zinc and phosphorous.

I couldn't find a straight answer so I started sending my oil in to get analyzed, and I came across ZDDPlus. It sounded an awful lot like snake oil, but I gave it a shot and added two ounces (half a bottle) to my oil (which I think I calculated would add an additional ~500 ppm phosphorous and ~700 ppm zinc, but don't quote me on that)

Results below, all Mobil 1 fully synthetic. I think the first (oldest) sample is 10W30, the second is 5W30 (my winter oil) and the third (newest) is 10W30 with the two ounces of ZDDPlus.

Google Docs (I edited out my personal information)

I'm about due for another oil change soon (this batch is 5W30 with 2 ounces ZDDPlus) so I can post more numbers.

Spyderbyte

[1998zj]

It's easy to get 300,000 out of a 4.0 with conventional oil if you keep it clean. Why spend the extra $ on synthetic. My brother in law that is in charge of selling lubricants in the US for Chevron says if there was any advantage to using the stuff he would use it in his cars. He can get it for free and he uses conventional.

[CB3]

Between my XJ and now LJ I've tried several oils, plus done a lot of research.

I've tried conventional 10/30 and 10/40, and of those "conventional" oils in those weights I think Chevron is best (partly because it's really a excellent quality synthetic blend for a bargain conventional price - see the ISOSYN label - means its a syn blend - and also because of good additives).

Mobil conventional 10/30 and 10/40 are true conventional oils, and I think the best true conventional oils in those weights due to excellent quality base stocks and good additives).

I've also tried Mobil One 10/30. It was to thin a viscosity for a 4L engine, and l would recommend it for a 4L engine.

I've run Mobil One 0/40 and it was slightly to thin to maintain oil pressure at full temp, especially after engine revving on freeway or highway mountain passes. I would NOT recommend any brand of 0/40 or 0/30 for a 4L engine. Even though Mobil 1 is the best in those weights, it's not an appropriate weight oil.

I now run Mobil One 5/40 and it's excellent year round. My climate yearround temp range is from 8 degrees F at coldest, to 110 degrees F at hottest. Though typically climate temps range from 25F to 100F. The Mobil One 5/40 has been excellent year round, gives fast oil pressure at startup, and holds pressure at full temp idle no matter how hard I've worked the engine just prior to idling.

Mobil makes the best conventional oils, and their 10/30 is best viscosity for a 4L engine.

Chevron makes the best synthetic blends, but they market them as conventional oils at great prices. Supreme or Delo are great. The best viscosity is 10/30 for new engine or 10/40 for higher mileage engine.

Chevron makes the second best full synthetic oils, and their Supreme 5/40 is best for a 4L engine. This oil is plenty good and if you can get is cheaper than Mobil One 5/40, then use the Chevron.

Mobil One makes the best synthetic oils, and their 5/40 is the best for a 4L engine.

Note: Many truck fleets with very expensive trucks rely on Chevron or Mobil conventional or synthetic oils because they are the best two as explained above.

Note: the military and civilian airlines rely on Mobil synthetic oils in their jet aircraft because its the best synthetic oil, and that's what's relied on when a 30 million dollar aircraft and hundreds of lives are at stake.

To top it all off, Chevron and Mobil cost less than the exotic brands, and C and M are much easier to find at most auto stores, many convenience stores, and some gas stations.

Avoid Castrol at all costs. There are numerous reports of engine failures with Castrol conventional and synthetic oils. Search the Internet and see for yourself. Torqo is also craptastic oil to be avoided.

Racing oils like Royal Purple and Amsoil have moly in them, I've heard. If this is true, then avoid them because moly is slippery for full throttle racing lube, but it turns to acid in a daily driver and eats up engine components. So if an oil has moly, avoid it. Racers can use moly additive oils because they change the oil after every race (typically 500 miles or less). This is not a suitable type oil for a daily driver.

Mobil (conventional) is an excellent DD oil in appropriate viscosity. Chevron conventional (really it's a synthetic blend) is an even better DD oil in appropriate viscosity. Chevron full synthetic oil 5/40 is an excellent DD and racing oil, often used in muscle cars. Mobil One (synthetic) 5/40 is an excellent DD and racing oil often used in muscle cars and turbo diesels. All those oils offer great lube for a 4L engine and are cat safe for all 4L engines of all model years.

One exotic brand that I'm confident is as good as Mobil One is Redline, but Redline costs way more than Mobil One, and M1 is just as good and available at many stores.

[gmp211]

It seems as if everyone likes to write books on this topic. All I'm going to say is that I run, trust and believe in AMSOIL Synthetics. They have a ton of data and testing on their site. Check them out.

AMSOIL - Synthetic Oil, Motor and Engine Oil, Lubricants, Air Filters, Oil Filters and Greases

[CB3]

Originally Posted by 1998zj

It's easy to get 300,000 out of a 4.0 with conventional oil if you keep it clean. Why spend the extra $ on synthetic. My brother in law that is in charge of selling lubricants in the US for Chevron says if there was any advantage to using the stuff he would use it in his cars. He can get it for free and he uses conventional.

If your brother in law is using Chevron "conventional" oil, then he's actually using a synthetic blend oil because all Chevron oils I've seen have the ISOSYN label on them, which means synthetic blend. (Except for the Chevron full synthetic oils which are 100% synthetic and say "synthetic" on them.)

So in that case, your brother in law is not using a conventional, he's using a synthetic blend, which would be better for a high mileage engine since lubes good and less likely to leak. Good enough lube for any 4L engine.

Though I do agree that a 4L engine can last just fine with a quality conventional oil. There are many quality ones. Mobil being my favorite conventional, and Shell and the Philps Conoco brands being my next favorites. (Philips Conoco includes many oil brand names with the same Philips Conoco oil in them - Valvoline, Union 76, 66, Napa, Philips Conoco, Kendall, and maybe some others too).

The reason why I like Mobil One 5/40 is that it gives me safety margin. Like the two times I accidentally turned on my aftermarket electric cooling fan from auto to off. The switch is for water crossings, but is dangerous because I didn't realize it was off until my engine beeper squawked, and I looked at temp gauge and was overheated to 260 degrees! I flipped the switch and fan came on and all was OK. No engine damage. This has happened twice and I've decided to change the switch to a safety switch with a guard to prevent accident turning off. However, my point is that my engine overheated badly twice and no damage.

The Mobil One 5/40 has been well worth the price, and it doesn't really cost that much more than conventional since I only change it every 4000 to 4500 miles. If I had a conventional, I'd be changing every 3000 to 3500 miles. Also, the Mobil One oils are cheaper than most exotic brands, and the Mobil One is better than most exotic brands, and equal to the best of them.

Anyone can blow a radiator hose or for some other reason overheat. It's nice to have an engine oil that offers lubrication safety margin. Synthetic oils are also nice in winter for cold starts.

If you never overheat, and you don't have cold winters, then no reason to get synthetic oil. In that case, just use conventional. If you have a high mileage engine, then you SHOULD use conventional oil. A good synblend oil is a nice compromise (and a great price if buying Chevron).

Though the Chevron "conventional" oils also offer some safety margin, what with being a highend synthetic-blend with good additives. Mobil's conventional 10/30 and 10/40 would offer a decent safety margin. Shell's conventional oils too. Independent tests have shown that the best conventional oils are better than the worst synthetic oils. Like Shell conventional beat Castrol synthetic and several other brands of synthetic oils in independent tests. However, the best brands of synthetic oils do offer the most lube protection, so much so that there is a substantial overkill/safety margin.

[CB3]

Originally Posted by gmp211

It seems as if everyone likes to write books on this topic. All I'm going to say is that I run, trust and believe in AMSOIL Synthetics. They have a ton of data and testing on their site. Check them out.

AMSOIL - Synthetic Oil, Motor and Engine Oil, Lubricants, Air Filters, Oil Filters and Greases

Yes, but it's all testing they've done. i.e. - NOT independent testing. I have also seen one test where they tried to pass it off as an independent test, but when reading fine print, the test was conducted by Amsoil.

In actual independent tests, Mobil One and Chevron full synthetics have bested Amsoil by clear margins in DD type, long mileage tests, and Mobil One has equaled Amsoil in racing tests.

I'm sure that Amsoil is competitive at racing type tests (what it was designed for), but many brands can beat it at long distance DD. One trick Amsoil uses (according to actual independent tests) is making their viscosities higher (than should be for the stated viscosity). That artificially makes it look better in racing tests that neglected to test the viscosity to verify its the stated viscosity. However, having an overly thick oil is NOT desirable at startup for a DD.

Mobil One is competitive at both DD and racing. Chevron clearly is competitive at DD, but their 5/40 full synthetic is also competitive at racing too, as evidenced by it's use in highend road racing muscle cars.

You Amsoil guys always have an axe to grind. You're either trying to sell it, or trying to justify why you bought it (because you paid so much).

I'm not selling oil. I don't care what brand someone uses. I'm not promoting one brand. There are many good brands and a few excellent ones. I'm unbiased.

The military and commercial airlines use Mobil One in their jet engines. Why? Because it's the best. Period. They could afford Amsoil if they wanted to, but they don't want it.

Most truck fleets are using Mobil, Chevron, or Shell products in their expensive trucks. Why? Because those are 3 of the best, likely the best. Actually, Mobil is the best, but Chevron and Shell are good and cost less. All of them cost less than Amsoil.

[CB3]

Also, the Amsoil rep at this site was going to check if Amsoil motor oil has moly in the oil. I read somewhere that Royal Purple and Amsoil motor oils both have moly in them. Moly is a great engine racing lubricant additive, as long as you change the oil after each race, but if the oil is left in the engine for DD type miles between changes, the moly to acid as the engine racks up miles, and acid eat certain engine components.

Now I'm not certain if Royal Purple and Amsoil really do have moly in them, but if they do, that's not good for a DD. The Amsoil rep at this site was going to check if Amsoil has moly in it or not, and then get back to us and post the answer here. That was many months ago, and he's never posted whether Amsoil has moly or not.

I normally try not to take aim directly at Amsoil at this forum because the Amsoil rep here is a forum vendor and so I try to turn a blind eye to it, even though he never did report back on whether it has moly in it or not. However, when an Amsoil user takes aim at me for my posting about oils, when I'm already restraining myself regarding Amsoil topics, then I have to tell the truth about Amsoil in a direct manner.

If Amsoil has moly, don't use it.

If it does not have moly, then it's OK to use it, but there are better oils that cost less (namely Mobil, Chevron, and Shell).

Now as to whether Amsoil actually has moly in it, or not, I don't know. I've heard it does, and the Amsoil rep was going to check and get back to us, but he never did.

Enough said.

Actually, one more thing to say. Amsoil is like Barak Obama. If a person says something it doesn't like, you're sure as hell going to here from it and its supporters and get flamed by both. Mobil, Chevron, and Shell couldn't give a poop less what I post here because they know they're the best and offering it for bargain prices. But even if I flamed the big 3 here, they wouldn't care what I post because they know they're the best. Why is Amsoil so sensitive?

[xJoshxx]

so you guys bumped a thread from may of 08 wow...