[CB3]

Originally Posted by 75SV1

That is my understanding. I hear it has a less robust additive package. I don't know about their standard oils. Look for Ashland Oil Company on the package.
As far as filters, NAPA is one of the best. Amsoil has a new filter out that people rave about. Also, Puralator Pure One, Baldwin, Hastings and Donaldsons.
I skimmed the article and wasn't as impressed with Mobil 1. Them and Amsoil were't listed in the thickening. Also, I did the math, Amsoil isn't $17.50 pre quart. It listed $87.50 and siad they used 5 liters (roughly 5 quarts). I think Amsoil sells for about $7.50/quart. Also, said they used the same weight for Amsoil for the HP test, but others used a lower viscosity.
I didn't check the date of the article. I have heard Mobil 1 has changed their formula in the past few years. They don't weather they use group 3, group 4 or group 5 base stock.
Tom

Keep in mind that that full throttle racing test you are referring to was conducted by Amsoil. Even so, Mobil One placed 3rd in tests of the many oils tested. I'd call that very good considering their competitor conducted those tests. I originally thought it was an independent test, but I later learned that it was conducted by Amsoil, or one of their resellers. They failed to say that in the test writeup , but I found out when I started reading the rest of the website where that test was posted. It's an Amsoil reseller website. So I doubt their full throttle racing tests were impartial, but whether impartial or not, Mobil One did pretty well, IMO, ranking 3rd of all oils tested.

The daily driver endurance test was independently done (though done by amateurs, albeit dedicated and careful amateurs over many years with the help of oil professional analysts they hired as consultants. Mobil One was the clear winner of that test.

So in point of fact, Amsoil has only beat Mobil One in full throttle racing tests conducted by Amsoil. I've never seen an independently done racing test. I have seen independently done daily driver endurance tests, and Mobil One won them all (but that was their old formulation).

An important thing for us to realize is that neither Amsoil, Mobil One, or any over the counter synthetic sold at auto stores is as good as it used to be - due to EPA laws interfering with their additive formulations. I've heard/read Chevron and Shell are exempt from those laws because those laws don't apply to oil sold primarily in bulk to companies (as opposed to consumers over the counter at auto stores). Therefore, I think that both Chevron and Shell synthetics are now the best, along with the two old school Mobil One products that still have their earlier phosphorous/zinc additive formulation.

One nice thing is that the best (Chevron and Shell in 4 or 5 qt jugs) are also among the cheapest. Yipee! I think NAPA (and Valvoline) are second best, and the NAPA is also affordable. However, why not buy the Chevron or Shell since they're probably best and certainly cheapest?

[CB3]

If you want to compare the additive formulations of NAPA brand synthetic (made by Valvoline) and Valvoline brand synthetic, go find their data sheets and compare phosphorous/zinc levels. If they're the same, then I think the formulation is the same, or close enough.

=====

You can compare any brand of synthetic's phosphorous/zinc additive levels to any other brand by comparing data sheets. That tells a lot about the levels of protection they offer 06 and older engines (4L engine for example).

=====

I think (I perceive/deduce by research) that the ideal for a 4L gas engine with a catalytic converter is from 1000 to 1200 PPM (or by weight 0.1% to 0.12%, or maybe up to 0.13% at most). Less offers less engine protection, and more is likely to mess up your catalytic converter.

Newer gas engines' cats require 800 PPM or less (approx 0.08% by weight, or less). The new EPA law requires those new type more sensitive cats in late model year cars (07 and later), and also requires the less phosphorous/zinc in both synthetic and conventional oils for gas engines that are sold over the counter in autostores. Oils sold only in bulk are except from that law, and therefore still contain full phosphorous/zinc at the old school levels. Oils for diesel engines are also exempt from that law, but contain way to much phopshorous for even the older models of cat converters in gas engines. So the oils made specifically for diesel engines aren't an option for gas engines with cats, not even the older gas engines made before 07. Besides, diesel oils are generally to heavy of a weight for our 4L engines anyway.

One nice thing about Chevron and Shell synthetic oils (and conventional oils) is that they're made to work in gas and diesel engines, which means plenty of phosphorous/zinc for your older model gas engines (06 and older), but not to much (won't mess up your cat). They can do this since they're synthetic oils are sold in bulk, and not considered over the counter oils for autostores (thus exempt from EPA meddling in their formulations).

Now that's the best information that I've found by research. I'm not an engineer or mechanic. So take the information I found and conclusions I've drawn for what they're worth.

Here's a couple links to Mobil One website discussing the phosphorous stuff:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Zinc_Motor_Oils.aspx

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Zinc_in_Engine_Oils.aspx

[CB3]

I forgot Kendall oils. That's another good and affordable one.

When the Consumer's Guide tested conventional oils years ago, Kendall was one of the top ranked oils along with Valvoline, and it's also one of the most affordable too. I recall that Kendall actually ranked in the top two. Penzoil was the other top one. This was a full throttle, high heat test. i.e. - a racing type test. However, I don't like Penzoil because it's so thick that I doubt it's cold startup protection (that wasn't tested) and it has a reputation for making sludge in high mileage vehicles.

So I'm not a Penzoil fan, but I do like Valvoline and love Kendall conventional oils because the full throttle high heat tests have Penzoil #1, Kendall #2, and Valvoline #3, and Kendall is affordably priced and it's reputation for keeping engines clean is fine. I like Valvoline because its reputation for keeping engines clean is fine. However, Kendall ranked higher in the test than V, and K costs less. Now this applies to P, K, and V conventional oils, but my theory is that if a company makes an excellent conventional oil, then they have high standards and probably make an even better synthetic oil.

Kendall also makes synthetic oil. I've never seen tests on it, but I think it's probably great stuff for good prices, because that's been my experience with Kendall conventional oil (Kendall conventional oil is in my Jeep now for breakin during 1st 10K miles - before I switch to a synthetic oil).

Even so, I'm still leaning toward Chevron and Shell synthetics because they're excempt from government tampering with their phosphorous/zinc additives because they're sold in bulk, not over the counter at auto stores. Hey, I don't make those stupid EPA laws, but they exist, and their effect has been to make over the counter brands less good than before, but not affect bulk oil products sold to trucking fleets.

A couple of the Mobil One products are also exempt from the government tampering. I said which two in earlier post.

[Kiwi_TJ]

Hi There,

My 1997 TJ has done 120,000 km, mostly on the stock dealership Dino oil. Would it be a good / bad / ugly idea to switch this over the Mobil 1 from the next oil change?

[Ridin' Around]

Originally Posted by CB3

Full throttle racing type test of new fresh synthetic oils. Many brands tested.
http://www.performanceoilnews.com/oils_against_oils.shtml

Endurance test on a daily driver. Amsoil and Mobil tested.
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

I'll add some more/other independent tests later, when I have time.

I have read your posts and you seem very well informed on this subject.

While I will seem and am biased on this topic, I would like to have seen the tests conducted with Amsoil's recommended filter(s) for Extended Drains. The EA series of filters or a true by-pass system for the best results. I would not recommend to any of my customers that drain interval on a Napa filter. I believe that the Napa filters are relabled Wix filters. I know that Wix produces a high quality fliter, I sell more than a few of them as an Amsoil dealer. I just believe the synthetic media filters or the by-pass setup is a better option when going to an EDI.

[CB3]

Originally Posted by Kiwi_TJ

Hi There,

My 1997 TJ has done 120,000 km, mostly on the stock dealership Dino oil. Would it be a good / bad / ugly idea to switch this over the Mobil 1 from the next oil change?

Originally Posted by Kiwi_TJ

Hi There,

My 1997 TJ has done 120,000 km, mostly on the stock dealership Dino oil. Would it be a good / bad / ugly idea to switch this over the Mobil 1 from the next oil change?

It's not considered an old engine until after 70K miles, according to Mobil One's FAQs. Note that us Americans say 70K and we mean 70,000 miles, which is approximately 140,000 km.

So you're at 120,000 km, which is about 60,000 miles. According to Mobil One's FAQs, you could switch to their (or any brand) synthetic, with no need to use their high mileage version. The suggest using their high mileage version if you make the switch at 70,000 miles or later (140,000 km or later).

The ideal time to switch to synthetic is 10,000 miles to 20,000 miles, but 60,000 is still fine.

Since you do have some miles on it already, I suggest using a synthetic oil that has 40 for it's high number, and the lowest available low number, or at least 5 for low number.

Here are the one's I'd suggest based on my research on which have best additive packages for gas engines that are 06 and older model year (different catalytic converter than 07 and newer).

For your engine, I'd recommend Kendall synthetic 5/40, Chevron Delo Synthetic 5/40, Shell Rotella synthetic 5/40, Shell Helix Ultra synthetic 0/40 and 5/40, and Mobil One 0/40. I like all those synthetic oils for their weight, and also because they have full additive package for 06 and older gas engines (they're gas and diesel oils).

Note that synthetic oils are slipperier and therefore tend to drop your oil pressure (and circulation) slightly. So if the high number is 40, then it's like a 40 weight at full engine operating temperature, except with a synthetic, a 40W behaves like approximately a 35W in regard to oil pressure and circulation (IME). So by using a 0/40 or 5/40 synthetic, your oil pressure (and circulation) will behave as it you have a 35W oil for top number when engine fully hot, which is about perfect for an engine that has more than 30,000 miles on it before switching to synthetic, IMO. If you had more than 70K, you might then prefer Mobil One High Mileage 10/30, but I think I'd still go with a 0/40 or 5/40.

The lower the low number is, the better for cold starts. A high number of 40 is perfect for a 4L engine at full operating temperature if it has some miles on it before switching to synthetic oil (more than 35,000 miles IMO).

If your engine was newer than 15,000 miles (mine has 7,500 miles on it), then consider Chevron Delo synthetic 0/30, and Shell Rimula Ultra synthetic 5/30 because those are appropriate weights for a newer engine, and have full additive package.

If your engine is between 15,000 miles and 35,000 miles, that's a grey area where I'm not sure if it'd be best to pick an oil with a high number of 30 or 40. The best thing to do would be to try a synthetic oil with 30 for high number of oil viscosity. If you still get full oil pressure when engine at full op temp, then stick with oil with a high number of 30. If your oil pressure is below normal at full op temp with a synthetic oil that has a high number of 30, then switch to a synthetic oil that has a high number of 40.

For the low viscosity number, the lower the better for cold start protection. For examples:

I'd rather use a 0/30 than a 5/30. I'd rather use a 5/30 than a 10/30.

I'd rather use a 0/40 than a 5/40. I'd rather use a 5/40 than a 10/40. I wouldn't even consider a 15/40.

[CB3]

So why did I pick those specific brands in those weights for my favorites? Because after doing more research and learning more, I now look for the multi-viscosity weight I want in a synthetic that has appropriate zinc/phosphorus additive package, and also good reviews in tests I've read.

The US government passed new EPA laws in 2007 that castrated the additive packages of over the counter oils for gas engines to reduce air pollution. I don't think it reduces pollution at all because it wears engines out faster when they don't have enough zinc and phosphorus additive. So the engines start burning oil sooner and more, and have to be replaced sooner, which wastes more resources and pollutes far more air than letting us have good lube oils in our engines with full additives.

However, the law is that all over the counter brand oils sold for USA gas engines must have their additive packages reduced. That applies to both conventional and synthetic oils. This has caused some new cars and many high performance cars to burn up cam shafts and similar things in the top end of engines. Those additives they removed were important, especially at cold start.

Now, there are oils that are excempt from that law.

For example, all brands of oils for high mileage cars are exempt, including Mobil One High Mileage and all other brands of high mileage, but I don't like paying more for those oils, I don't need their seal conditioners in my newer engine, and I don't like the available weights because usually they're thicker than I need in my new engine, especially thicker at cold start since they aren't offered in the new/better wide ranging multi-vicosities like 0/40 and 5/40.

Bulk oils are exempt from that law. That is why Chevron Delo synthetic and Shell Rotella, Shell Rimula Ultra, and Shell Helix Ultra are awesome. That and they come in great multviscosit weights, and they're also great prices sold bulk at truck stops and trucking supply places. I've heard that Walmart and Napa also sell them, but if so, know this: Chevron Delo synthetics all have full additive package, as do Shell Rotella Ultra, Shell Rimula Ultra, and Shell Helix Ultra, but NOT FormulaShell.

So Walmart and Napa selling Chevron Delo means they're selling the good stuff same as the truck stops (as long as it says Chevron "Delo"). However, my cousin says Walmart doesn't have the Chevron Delo synthetic (only the Chevron Delo conventional oil - which is a great conventional oil BTW) and we aren't sure if NAPA has it, but we heard it does. As for Shell, they have an over the counter verson of Shell called FormulaShell, but it's one of the castrated consumer over-the-counter oils lacking full additives. To get the good Shell products, you must get Shell Rotella synthetic, Shell Rimula Ultra, or Shell Helix Ultra, all of which are probably only available at truck stops and trucking supply places.

Most Kendall oils are castrated over-the-counter consumer oils these days. But the Kendall 5/40 synthetic is still the real deal with full additive package. Probably is falls under the diesel oil exemption, or maybe the bulk exemption.

Mobil One is is the same boat as Kendall. Most Mobil One products are now the castrated over-the-counter oils without full additive packages. However, Mobil One 0/40 falls under the European car exemption and therefore still has full additive package. So it's a great oil with a great viscosity range.

I think the Mobil One 0/40 is my favorite synthetic as being the likely best due to both it's wide viscosity range, full (traditional) additive package, and Mobil One has the most years experience making synthetic oils. However, Chevron, Shell, and Kendall also offer excellent synthetic oils with great additive packages, quality synthetics, wide viscosity ranges, and great prices. Especially Chevron and Shell are available at great bulk prices. Maybe Kendall synthetic 5/40 is available in bulk prices too - not sure.

My personal favorites are Chevron Delo synthetic 0/30, Mobil One synthetic 0/40, and Shell Helix Ultra synthetic 0/40 because of their awesome wide multiviscosity range - combined with full additive packages. My next favorites are the 5/40 synthetics offered by Chevron Delo synthetic, Shell Rotella synthetic, and Kendall synthetic because of their full additive packages. Also Shell Rimula 5/30 (though why use a 5/30 when you can use a 0/30?). And of course, I like them all because of being synthetics.

The fact that many of them are available at Walmart and NAPA for great prices is a nice bonus. The fact that many of them are available at truck stops and trucking supply stations in large jugs for bulk prices is also a bonus. So not only are these the best synthetic oils, IMO, but also the least expensive too! That's because they're made by big oil companies and sold by Walmart, NAPA, and truckstops at bulk prices. Also because they have full additive packages for reasons already explained.

BP synthetic in bulk for truckers is also awesome (with full additive package) if you get appropriate weight of multi-viscosity. However, I have no access to BP products in my area.

In my case, the Mobil One 0/40 and Chevron Delo syn 0/30 and 5/40 are what is conveniently locally available to me at Walmart and NAPA for the Mobil One and possibly Chevron Delo synthetic, and a local truck stop sells the Chevron Delo synthetic in bulk size jugs (4 or 5 qt or larger) at bulk prices. With some effort, I might be able to find the Shell Rotella, Shell Rimula Ultra, and Shell Helix Ultra locally, and perhaps the Kendall synthetic too. But why bother? I'm happy with the Mobil One and Chevron. However, Shell does make a 0/40 that's probably about as good as Mobil One 0/40 for less money. I like 0/40 weight synthetics because I like the great cold start protection and wide operating temperature range, and it's well suited to the 4L Jeep engines, IMO. I also like 0/30, which would be Chevron Delo syn.

These are the best synthetic oils for gas engines 2006 and older because they have the best additive packages, are made for daily driver heavy duty use, and according to racing type tests, these oils are also fine for racing too, and they're available at cheap bulk prices (for synthetic oils). What more can you ask for? I've just shown you motor oil paradise.

[CB3]

Originally Posted by Ridin' Around

I have read your posts and you seem very well informed on this subject.

While I will seem and am biased on this topic, I would like to have seen the tests conducted with Amsoil's recommended filter(s) for Extended Drains. The EA series of filters or a true by-pass system for the best results. I would not recommend to any of my customers that drain interval on a Napa filter. I believe that the Napa filters are relabled Wix filters. I know that Wix produces a high quality fliter, I sell more than a few of them as an Amsoil dealer. I just believe the synthetic media filters or the by-pass setup is a better option when going to an EDI.

That might be a valid point about filters. I don't know what brand of filter they used in those tests. They either didn't mention it, or I forgot. Either way, I'm to lazy to go look it up again.

You are correct that NAPA Gold Filters are relabeled Wix filters. At least that's what certain people in the business told me. I've heard that from several sources actually. So I'm pretty sure NAPA Gold are Wix, and I do like them and use them, but I change my oil and filter at 3K due to mostly short hop city driving.

Here is the thing about that test, whatever filter they used, be it NAPA, Wix, Fram, or whatever, they used that same filter for both the Amsoil and the Mobil One. Amsoil failed at 12K using that generic filter, while Mobil One did well for 18K using same generic filter. The Mobil One didn't fail at 18K. Mobil One never failed, but they stopped the Mobil One endurance test at 18K because it was 1 year since they put the Mobil One oil in. Both Amsoil and Mobil One had filter changed every 7K miles and oil topped off. It was a fair test. Even if the filters used weren't ideal, they were the same filter for both brands of oil. So a fair test.

The other thing about Amsoil is that it's designed for racing, not daily drivers. Those are two different applications. That probably explains several things. Racing oils are not designed with cold start protection as a high priority because most races don't happen in cold conditions, and the driver can sit and idle as long as he wants. Daily drivers on the other hand, often operate in cold conditions and the person just starts up and drives right off. So an oil for a daily driver must be designed to make good cold start protection a high priority.

In that daily driver and oil endurance test, one thing they noted was that Amsoil was to thick at startup and didn't offer good startup protection in their opinion. So much so that it took longer for oil pressure to come up and the engine ran much rougher when cold with Amsoil, as compared to Mobil One.

So Mobil One won that daily driver test in two ways. Better cold start protection, faster oil pressure up, and smoother running cold engine, and it also lasted longer for endurance using the same generic oil filter that was used with the Amsoil product. This was an independent test conducted by private parties who hired and paid professional oil analysts to do chemical anaysis on oil every 1,000 miles.

However, in racing tests Amsoil does indeed always win every one of those that I've read. However, those test were all conducted by Amsoil and Amsoil resellers. So biased. Also, they were all full throttle, on a dyno, run it full out till it overheats tests. Amsoil always wins, but those test were conducted by Amsoil.

Yet I do believe that Amsoil might be the best for racing, or at least one of the best. However, it's useful to note that in Amsoil's own tests BP Synthetic ranked 2nd, Mobil One 3rd, and Shell 4th and these were racing tests. BP synthetic, Mobil One, and Shell synthetic are designed for daily driver use, yet still ranked right up there for racing use (above Royal Purple, Valvoline, Castrol and many other name brands). That's darned impressive for BP, Mobil One, and Shell. Shell synthetic ranked right after Mobil One. It's darned impressive that 3 oils designed for daily driving ranked close to Amsoil for racing use, even in tests conducted by Amsoil, and ranked far above Royal Purple.

I think that if tested against Amsoil for daily driver use, BP and Shell synthetics would both beat Amsoil in daily driver tests that included cold start protection and endurace/mileage/time because BP and Shell are designed for daily driver use. We already know that Mobil One beat Amsoil by a wide margin at the independently conducted daily driver tests. Chevron Delo synthetic wasn't tested in either of the tests I read about, but I know it's a dandy because it's additive package is dandy, and it's reputation is excellent. Hoseclamp (at this forum) uses the Chevron Delo synthetic in his Jeep, and Hoseclamp is a very mechanically knowledgable large sawmill manager. My cousin owns a sawmill and he uses Chevron Delo Synthetic in his trucks.

I'm not a fan of Amsoil motor oil for valid reasons. There are several other brands that are better for daily driver use and cost much less sold in bulk.

Also, I'm not entirely convinced that Amsoil is really better for racing since it was Amsoil who conducted those racing tests. While the test that showed Amsoil not being so good for daily drivers (cold start and endurance/mileage tests) were independently done without bias.

No offense, but why would I buy Amsoil motor oil when there are several other brands that appear to be better and cost a lot less? If Amsoil started putting more emphasis on daily driver performance and protection (cold start and endurance), and less on racing, that would help. Even then, it would still have to be price competitive for me to buy it.

[CB3]

I do like Amsoil's GH Heavy Duty Grease NLGI #2. It's the best fresh water marine use grease because of its excellent resistance to water washout (best of any grease) and it's excellent temperature range (among the best 3), and it's excellent high pressure lube capabilities (among the best 3). So I give my full respect to Amsoil's GH grease. By comparison, Mobil One grease and most brands of grease should be embarrassed.

The best salt water marine grease is Metalon, but Green Grease synthetic grease is a close second and more readily available to the public.

Amsoil synthetic GH Heavy Duty EP grease in NLGI #2 is the best for fresh water marine use. It has best water washout protection of any grease, even better than Metalon and Green Grease, and a wider operating temperature range than Green Grease (Amsoil GH grease works in all climates). All three greases have equally excellent high pressure lube abilities.

For fresh water marine uses and automotive use in wet fresh water conditions, Amsoil GH Heavy Duty EP grease #2 is best because has best water washout resistance and wide operating temp range, and great high extreme pressure lube properties.

I'm very impressed with Amsoil GH Heavy Duty EP grease.

[benjamin.olejnik]

I run Mobile 1 with a Fram Tough Guard filter in my 2004 TJ I6, is this a no no? I know fram has a synthetic filter out there but it needs to be ordered, most places do not carry it. The only real reason I run the Fram is for the suregrip, makes taking it off much easier. I have ran Mobile 1 in my GSX-R for 3 seasons with a suzuki filter (who ever makes them) and I have not had any issues. I have 40k on my bike, I run it hard, and I have no issues to speak of...knock on wood.

[CB3]

I've used Wix and NAPA Gold filters for 10+ years with Mobil synthetic oil and it's worked great, but I do change oil and filter at normal service interval. Prior to that, I used K&N oil filters and fram high filtration and had problems with both. Wix and NAPA Gold are much better for only slightly more money than Fram, and much less money than K&N. I'm not impressed with K&N oil filters, nor Fram either.

If you want to go for extended oil change intervals, I suggest you change filter at normal service interval, and change oil at twice normal service interval. Many independent tests have show that Mobil One (regular product, not high endurance product) can work well for up to 3 times normal service interval, if filter changed at normal interval and oil topped off after filter change. However, I don't like to push my luck. So changing oil at twice normal interval is very safe, if you are changing filter at normal interval.

So why do I change both my filter and oil at normal service interval for heavy duty city driving? Well, because I do mostly short hop city driving. Mostly it's because I have a service contract with my car dealership and they are paying for the oil, not me. So why not have them change both my filter and oil at each normal service interval? It doesn't cost me anything for the oil. I do provide the filter though (NAPA Gold) because I want a better filter.

If I was paying for the synthetic oil, then I would change filter at normal service interval and oil at twice normal service interval, and I'd feel very secure doing that since Mobil One is well proven to be able to safely go 3X normal service interval (even in high performance engines), if filter changed at normal service interval. That's the regular Mobil One that's tested and proven for that, not the Extended Service product.

I'd also feel safe doing the same with Shell Rotella, Chevron Delo, Chevron Supreme, or Mobil Delvac One synthetic bulk oils. Those bulk oils are as good as the best Mobil One products. The Mobil Delvac One is Mobil One's best, except sold as a bulk oil. In fact, bulk oils are typically as good, and often better, than consumer oils. However, when choosing one of those bulk, mixed fleet (gas and diesel) oils, one must take care to choose one that has an appropriate amount of addtives. If not careful, you could end up using one that has to much additives, which causes a whole nother set of problems.

[benjamin.olejnik]

So your saying that running Mobile 1 High Mileage is okay (and beneficial due to the additives) in a 4.0 with only 40k on it?

[CB3]

Originally Posted by benjamin.olejnik

So your saying that running Mobile 1 High Mileage is okay (and beneficial due to the additives) in a 4.0 with only 40k on it?

Yes you can run Mobil One High Mileage in your engine and it'll be great, assuming you find it for a good price. Check Walmart and NAPA for starters.

You also have other great options in other viscosities that you might like better, equally good lube additives, and in some cases - lower prices.

For example, Shell Rotella Synthetic 0/40 (ideal additives, but not Rotella 5/40 because to much additives), Mobil One 0/40, Chevron Supreme Synthetic 5/40, and if you have good oil pressure and don't use oil, then Chevron Delo Synthetic 0/30.

If in doubt, go with Mobil One High Mileage 10/30. Then you can see how the oil pressure and oil consumption are for 4000+ miles. Then decide if to stick with the MOHM 10/30 or switch to one of those others. At that point you'll have a pretty good idea what viscosity to run based on your 4K miles experiences with MOHM 10/30.

[Bigbob]

Originally Posted by benjamin.olejnik

So your saying that running Mobile 1 High Mileage is okay (and beneficial due to the additives) in a 4.0 with only 40k on it?

I have never found the full syn high mileage around here yet. It is fine in a new engine. It has the most "credentials" as far as ratings go. The EP is a close second place.

API numbers are the trick;

The Mobil 1 High Mileage is best:



The Mobil 1 Extended Protection is very good as well,



Make sure you are running an oil that meets the dealers criteria and viscosity if you are still under warranty. It very well could be an issue if something blows and you go in for dealer work. I run the EP 10/30 along with a huge Donaldson filter. The filter adds 1 quart capacity.

[CB3]

While I do like some Mobil One products, the Mobil One Extended Protection is NOT one I like for a 4L engine. It has extra cleaning additives (extra detergents), but that's no help and unnecessary if you change oil at normal service interval; or change filter at normal service interval and oil at twice normal service interval.

The Mobil One Extended Protection products have a greatly reduced extreme pressure lubrication additive package (zinc and phosphorus). This is necessary to protect the catalytic converters on 07 and newer gas engines, but 06 and older gas engines (4L) have less sensitive cats that can handle more zinc and phosphorus. Therefore, a 4L engine doesn't need a low emissions oil with reduced zinc and phosphorus.

A 4L will benefit from more zinc and phosphorus additives increasing extreme pressure, high torque, lubrication capabilities. To a point. Don't get carried away. Some diesel oils and all motor cycle oils have to much additives, which causes another set of problems (dirty plugs/valves, reduced gas combustion efficiency, reduced gas mileage, etc).

Sooo... That is whay I said Mobil One High Mileage is a good choice for a 4L of any mileage. It has an appropriate amount of phoshorus and zinc additives. Almost a full dose for an 06 and older gas engine. A medium dose anyway, and that's pretty good these days. The Mobil One 0/40 has similar level of additives, which makes it great for all model years gas engines, including good for the 4L (and 0/40 is a great viscosity range too). However, I think that Chevron Supreme Synthetic 5/40 is better yet (and costs a bit less) because it has slightly more zinc and a preferable viscosity range (more stable under shear and heat stress).

By contrast, the Mobil One Extended Performance is "extended" only in the sense that it has more detergents for longer oil change intervals, but it is diminished in regard to it's key high pressure lubrication additives. That makes it a great oil for 07 and newer gas engines, but not so good for 06 and older gas engines.

That is why, for a 4L engine, I recommend any brand of high mileage oil, with Mobil One High Mileage being the best (IMO) since it's a synthetic (available at Walmart, NAPA, and everywhere). I also recommend Mobil One 0/40 since it has a medium level of lube additives which is plenty/enough, and substantially (20% more) more than the low emissions Mobil One products. However, the Chevron Supreme Synthetic 5/40 is even better.

The bulk synthetics by Mobil Delvac One, Shell Rotella, and Chevron Delo all have full high pressure lube additives. And they cost less too since they're bulk products. However, some of those have ideal amount of additives, and some have to much. So don't assume they're appropriate unless you read their spec sheets and know what you're looking for. The ideal amount of phosphorus is 1100 to 1200 PPM (0.11 to 0.12 %wt). 1000 PPM (0.10 %wt) is good enough. Don't accept less than 1000 or more than 1300 because your engine will suffer. Ideal is 1100 to 1200. 1000 is pretty good.

Now don't take my word for it. Go to Mobil One and look up their data sheets and compare their levels of phosphorus. Go to each of the other brands I mentioned and do the same.

If you had an 07 or newer gas engine, then a European oil would be ideal, and Mobil One 0/40 and Chevron Supreme 5/40 are some of the best. These are still a low emissions oil, but not as low as others. The phoshorus is typically 1000 PPM in European oils (and in Mobil One High Mileage Oils). Other weights of Chevron Supreme and Shell Formulashell are good low emissions consumer synthetics for 07 and newer gas engines, but aren't the heavy duty European versions.

Here's a link to the table that shows phosphorus levels for various Mobil One products: http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf For other brands of synthetic, check their data sheets and compare.

Here is another link that discusses the topic of which Mobil One oils have reduced phosphorus and which don't. The European oils have a medium level. http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Zinc_Motor_Oils.aspx This topic is not limited to Mobil One products, but applies to all brands of oils. If you search the web, you can find this topic discussed at many forums and websites, and also how hit relates to various brands of consumer and bulk oils. All brands and most types of consumer oils are affected, but there are some exceptions for special types of oils that still have full, or nearly full additive (as explained earlier). All big name brands of bulk/commercial heavy duty and mixed fleet (gas and diesel mixed fleet) oils still have full phosphorus/zinc additives, but some have to much. So don't go using those unless you know what you're doing. If in doubt, use a high performance oil for a European gas engine.

For people with 06 and older gas engines: You want enough additives, but not to much. With knowledge and research, you can choose an ideal oil from among the Shell, Chevron, or Mobil mixed fleet gas/diesel oils. If you don't have that knowledge, then choose a European high performance gas engine oil so you'll get a medium amount of additive that is enough, but not to much.Avoid motorcycle and racing oils because they typically have way to much lube additives and not enough detergent additives.

My favorite mixed fleet oils that have appropriate levels of additives for 06 and older gas engines are Shell Rotella 0/30 and 5/30 Synthetic Blend and 0/40 Synthetic (but NOT Rotella 5/40), Chevron Delo Synthetic 10/30 conventional oil and 0/30 Synthetic (but not Delo 5/40), and Mobil Delvac One 5/40. It should be noted that the Delvac One has the max additive that's sensible to use in an 06 or older gas engine and that Chevron Supreme Synthetic 5/40 might be a better choice due to more ideal additive levels.

For people with 07 and newer gas engines: Choosing any brand of synthetic European Oil is a good way to go, if it's a suitable viscosity. Also, all Mobil One products of an appropriate weight are an excellent choice.

My favorite European formulation oil [for high performance European (and USA) gas engines] is Chevron Supreme Synthetic 5/40. In a colder climate, Mobil One 0/40 would be my favorite European formulation.