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Unread 11-19-2013, 09:26 PM   #16
nixer600
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Here's a fact: the 60s splines and the 14 bolt splines are a different shape, because of the Stronger type of splines used in a 14 bolt less splines is still stronger than a 35 spline Dana.

Listen I have a completely built rear FF 60 and a stock heavy duty FF 14 bolt is stronger. In every way.


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Unread 11-19-2013, 10:27 PM   #17
schitzangiggles
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Comparing a D60 to a GM 14 bolt isn't really fair, how ever comparing a D70 to a GM 14 bolt is more of a fair and valid comparison, The D60 is a 3/4 ton axle while the 14bolt is a 1ton axle.
http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/tr...14-bolt-axles/

Here is more info on the 14bolt
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/14b_bible/

And an upgrade to the ujoints...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...oke/index.html
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Unread 11-19-2013, 11:03 PM   #18
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Other than a semi float 60 and the 78 Chevy camper van I have never seen a stock OEM Dana 60 with 35 spline, never. 99.9999999% of them will have 16/30/32 spline all 1.375.

I never said I liked the 9", but I did say if the OP wanted a HP rear at least get the after market TrueHigh9 3rd, this way it will have a load bolt. That's what will make the 9" stronger for a rear over the OEM HP 60 gears used in the rear.

And saying a 9" if it didn't have the 3rd bearing support it would grenade is a moot point as all 9" axle 3rds have them.
Me I am not a fan of the 9", I like my tons.

I even go as far as saying the dana 70 is still weaker then the 14 bolt as it use's the same size 29 spline yoke as the 60, so to me you spin off a yoke before shredding gears.
Don't get me wrong I would still chose a 70U over a 60HD for the fact you get a 10.5" ring, smooth bottom/more clearance and the 35 spline shafts. But as long as I can pull 14 bolt from the junkyard for 75-125 an axle that's all the beef anyone needs for that price.

Yes I run a 60 rear, but its a Chevy front 60 used for rear steer, it was the simples and cheapest way for me to with rear steer, trust me I have worked on other axles to get them to steer and this was still simpler.

Jason.
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Unread 11-20-2013, 09:45 AM   #19
Evildriver-3
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I can sell you a 60 with 35 spl, almost all the dodges had the 35 spl 60's and ALL HD 60's are 35 spl, all the mini busses used 35 spl 60's.
Dana Inner axle shaft spline counts are 16, 23, 30, 32, 33 and 35, and there is room for improvement to 40 in the aftermarket, and the gear ratios avail are far better for the 60 than the 14b

Simple issue is this, like the 9" that 3rd bearing or pilot bearing even hiccups and you are done..., and more than a simple ring and pinion. I have had 2 14bs of that variety fail badly simply because of that 1 bearing, just like a 9". Never EVER has a D-60 even behind 2500hp and even more ever ever broke to the point it spit out a pinion and wrecked the housing.

The 14b with removable pin housing by design has a bad pinion bearing design and exactly the like the 9" needs that 3rd bearing/pilot bearing it is NOT a extra insurance bearing, without that bearing you'll break that diff. Having the pin bearings like that is exactly like a unit bearing hub, however the hub can't have an added 3rd bearing to help support it from wobbling. Thats the deflection issue and why it must be there and what makes them the weak point and causes catastrophic damage when it fails.

Seems you're basing strength on the spl/diam count at the pin though
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Last edited by Wheelin98TJ; 11-20-2013 at 10:33 AM.. Reason: Made in the USA argument is not appropriate for this thread. Take it elsewhere
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Unread 11-20-2013, 12:38 PM   #20
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Guys out here break D60's in the rear all the time. So much so that they are dropping in D80's or 2.5 tons rockwells for the bigger tires.
I can buy a complete 14bolt for under $200, a D60? Try $650 for one you have to rebuild. A front D60? unobtanium for under $1500, stock.
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Unread 11-20-2013, 12:50 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schitzangiggles
Guys out here break D60's in the rear all the time. So much so that they are dropping in D80's or 2.5 tons rockwells for the bigger tires. I can buy a complete 14bolt for under $200, a D60? Try $650 for one you have to rebuild. A front D60? unobtanium for under $1500, stock.
Like I said buy a CUCV and rob the axles and sell the rest. But other deals are out there, my friend just bought a set 14bFF and D60 steer axle with lockers, 4.56's and disc brake conversion for $1500
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Unread 11-20-2013, 01:22 PM   #22
jason m
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evildriver-3 View Post
I can sell you a 60 with 35 spl, almost all the dodges had the 35 spl 60's and ALL HD 60's are 35 spl, all the mini busses used 35 spl 60's.
Dana Inner axle shaft spline counts are 16, 23, 30, 32, 33 and 35, and there is room for improvement to 40 in the aftermarket, and the gear ratios avail are far better for the 60 than the 14b

Simple issue is this, like the 9" that 3rd bearing or pilot bearing even hiccups and you are done..., and more than a simple ring and pinion. I have had 2 14bs of that variety fail badly simply because of that 1 bearing, just like a 9". Never EVER has a D-60 even behind 2500hp and even more ever ever broke to the point it spit out a pinion and wrecked the housing.

The 14b with removable pin housing by design has a bad pinion bearing design and exactly the like the 9" needs that 3rd bearing/pilot bearing it is NOT a extra insurance bearing, without that bearing you'll break that diff. Having the pin bearings like that is exactly like a unit bearing hub, however the hub can't have an added 3rd bearing to help support it from wobbling. Thats the deflection issue and why it must be there and what makes them the weak point and causes catastrophic damage when it fails.

Seems you're basing strength on the spl/diam count at the pin though
Simple not true, your confusing the dodge dana 70 or for that matter any dana 70 with a dana 60, almost all rear 60's use a up to a 32 spline shaft and no HD's due not use 35 spline, they use the larger boar and bearings but not the larger shaft or spline.

IF you are correct please post up the where Dodge used a rear 35 spline 60 and please link back to Dana's wed site with a BOM. You wont find it, the only time a 60 was used with 35 spline was in a semi float and the 78 Chevy van camper as I posted.

If what you are saying is correct then why do so many who install a Dana 60 rear always want to convert it to 35 spline and have to boar the spindles and buy after market shafts, again post up the BOM's from Dana that you claim Dodge for the most part used, if you cant, don't post false info.

Up to 5.38's what's left that the 14 bolt cant get, 5.86, 6.17's and 7.17's ( 7.17's was 70 only ) so saying the gears for a 60 are better than a 14 bolt, what three extra deep gears that 90% of us wont run anyways

And yes I am saying spline count at the pinion is a critical thing to consider, because as you increase the spline on the shaft along with size the breaking point in a axle pass's to the next smallest part, witch normally is the pinion.
So to say a 14 bolt will offer a larger pinion VS a 60/70 is a critical thing to consider as you increase the shaft size and HP.

Do a quick search on Pirate and check out all the broken 60 parts, rings, pinions, gears and yes even shafts, heck just a quick a google search and there is tons of them and I bet 99% of them broke with less than 500HP, so to say that a 60 can all the time run 2500HP ( your number not mine ) threw it is a crazy statement.

lastly I know you wont post up any facts from Danas web site, so why I am wasting my time to asking you, you will say "well I'm right and don't have to prove it to you" that's fine, I know for fact your info is dead wrong.


Jason.
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Unread 11-20-2013, 02:55 PM   #23
Evildriver-3
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Well looking all that up is my time, and im not going to waste my valuable time with someone who just wants to think they know everything because they went to Dana's site. I am a Dana Spicer dealer, and they have some mistakes in many of the cats and even the dana mate site let alone the print.
However i have seen, built, repaired many of these you say don't exist and even owned a truck w F&R hd 60's and both had 35 spl, however in dana's catalog and info that truck doesn't exist, but i had one, however that axle #35091-28.

To go on further since you just don't believe the 60 doesn't use the 35 spl i'll go thru my comp at the shop and well this is for FACT because it was sold.... So look at this even GM has used a D60 R with 35spl and thats #36453-1 and FF not semi......
Look at this a Jeep J20 R D60 and 35 spl 35508-1 and 35508-2 says 5 lug so it mighta been a semi float, like the Dodge car axles that were 35 spl....got a lot in here dodge car 26717X & 29699-1x and 29699-2x more 35 spl.... looks like ford too 35508-2 D60 with 35spl
Then also my Power Ram that has 35 spl as i ordered the E-locker for it and was also 35 spl.... So you still don't believe, hey that fine.

I have D-60 behind 2000hp and not a single broken pinion, or anything else, even have a few leaving at 8500 in fairly heavy stick cars, not a auto on a tb, core truck on 60's no issue, i have seen some broken rings and pins at the gear, never the stem, but i have had 2 14b broken to beyond useable.
.
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Unread 11-20-2013, 04:16 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason m View Post
lastly I know you wont post up any facts from Danas web site, so why I am wasting my time to asking you, you will say "well I'm right and don't have to prove it to you" that's fine, I know for fact your info is dead wrong.
Quoted for truth.
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Unread 11-20-2013, 04:17 PM   #25
jason m
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evildriver-3 View Post
Well looking all that up is my time, and im not going to waste my valuable time with someone who just wants to think they know everything because they went to Dana's site.
So look at this even GM has used a D60 R with 35spl and thats #36453-1 and FF not semi......
Look at this a Jeep J20 R D60 and 35 spl 35508-1 and 35508-2 says 5 lug so it mighta been a semi float, like the Dodge car axles that were 35 spl....got a lot in here dodge car 26717X & 29699-1x and 29699-2x more 35 spl.... looks like ford too 35508-2 D60 with 35spl
Then also my Power Ram that has 35 spl as i ordered the E-locker for it and was also 35 spl.... So you still don't believe, hey that fine.


.
Figured you were not going to put some facts out there, that's why I said up thread that you will respond that way, always can tell.

And yes if you look at what I said twice ( now three times ) I said that GM did use a 35 spline 60 in the 78 camper vans, so your number posted is probably that one, but I already pointed it out twice up thread.

Jeep, Dodge and even Ford used a 35 spline SEMI FLOAT as I again said up stream, so I agree they were used just not as a FF in the Dodge trucks your talking about.
So you ordered a E locker in 35 spline form, ok good for you how does that back up your statement it was a FACTORY part in that axle.

And I don't just get my info from Dana's website, ive been working on light and medium trucks for over 15 years and still maintain them, so yes Ive been around. Years of tearing axles apart I can tell you ( well not you ) 60 HD's did not come with 35 spline shafts.
Now maybe some of the new trucks like 12 and up might have them, I have not had the pleasure to tear anything new apart.

So links to OEM 60 rears with 35 spline shafts or its BS other than the Chevy one we talked about and semi float axle's.

Jason.
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Unread 11-20-2013, 05:08 PM   #26
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This list of what Dana full floating 60 axles are NON-30-spline.
I searched all 1970-1999 Ford, Dodge, Chevy, and Jeep.

BOM axle shaft # . . . Spline . . Lenth Bolt circle Bolt #'s Make Year, Model - Dana 60 Full Floating non 30 spline.
603884 36453-1 . . . . . 35 . . . 39.69" 3.56 8 Chevy 78 G 300 Van w/ 164" Wheel base
603545 36453-1 . . . . . 35 . . . 39.69" 3.56 8 Chevy 1975 G 300 Van w/ 164" Wheel base
603702 36453-1 . . . . . 35 . . . 39.69" 3.56 8 Chevy 1976 G 300 Van w/ 164" Wheel base
603398 36453-1 . . . . . 35 . . . 39.69" 3.56 8 Chevy 1973 G 300 Van w/ 125" Wheel base
603475 36453-1 . . . . . 35 . . . 39.69" 3.56 8 Chevy 1974 G 300 Van w/ 125" Wheel base
603560 36453-1 . . . . . 35 . . . 39.69" 3.56 8 Chevy 1975 G 300 Van w/ 125" Wheel base
603705 36453-1 . . . . . 35 . . . 39.69" 3.56 8 Chevy 1976-78 G 300 Van w/ 125" Wheel base
All Vans 41100-1 . . . . . 35 . . . 39.69" 3.56 8 Chevy 1979-1991.5 All Chevy vans with Dana 60


Like I said Chevy camper vans used them and thats about it.

605685 43811-16 & 17 . 32 . . . 34.92 & 37.64 3.96 8 Ford 1995-96 E350 Van SRW -ABS (Not all Vans)
605843 43811-16 & 17 . 32 . . . 34.92 & 37.64 3.96 8 Ford 1996 E350 Van SRW -ABS (Not all Vans)
605935 43811-16 & 17 . 32 . . . 34.92 & 37.64 3.96 8 Ford 1996.5 E350 Van SRW -ABS (Not all Vans)
605948 43811-16 & 17 . 32 . . . 34.92 & 37.64 3.96 8 Ford 1997.5 E350 Van SRW -ABS (Not all Vans)
606162 43811-16 & 17 . 32 . . . 34.92 & 37.64 3.96 8 Ford 1998.5-99 E350 Van SRW -ABS (Not all Vans)

Ford was the only one to use a 32 spline rear in the dana 60.

Jason.
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And on the 8th day, God created the 14 bolt....
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Unread 11-20-2013, 07:54 PM   #27
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Facts ? Those are the pt #'s to the axles for that 60. You want to argue misprints , Dana has hundreds, like i said my truck isn't even listed in danas cats, and many of the late 80's early 90's aren't correct, believe what you want
Of all the 35spl sold you only have one of the axles listed, whats odd is my dana book shows that axle in a pi also not just vans or campers.

Ford also had 35spl in semi float 60's
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Unread 11-20-2013, 10:27 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evildriver-3 View Post
Facts ? Those are the pt #'s to the axles for that 60. You want to argue misprints , Dana has hundreds, like i said my truck isn't even listed in danas cats, and many of the late 80's early 90's aren't correct, believe what you want
Of all the 35spl sold you only have one of the axles listed, whats odd is my dana book shows that axle in a pi also not just vans or campers.

Ford also had 35spl in semi float 60's
OMG do you even read what I posted, I said now 4 times ( this will make 5 ) that ford did use a 35 spline SEMI FLOAT AXLE, god am I talking to a 16 year old?
Yes they are part numbers, they reference to Chevy Dana 60's that used a FF 60 with ( drum roll ) 35 spline shaft.
Misprints, really, is that what I'm left to believe from multi billion dollar Corp. Ok.

I highly doubt Dodge made a truck ( a super truck ) stuffed it with some mystery axle hybrids like you want us to believe and then sold it to you
Your customers may buy your BS but I'm not buying it and I think most who can read will cut threw the dribble and look at the facts, which you really haven't posted any.

Oh and post a Pic of your super book listing those axles with FF 35 spline axle's, would love to see it, or will I get the same " I'm not wasting time on that for you" line again? But yet you come back with your powder wet and not dry?

Jason.
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And on the 8th day, God created the 14 bolt....
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Unread 11-21-2013, 07:58 AM   #29
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The pt#'s i listed are not all GM, one or two of them are, the 1st 2 are for the dodge, the one for the Jeep with whats in my comp is short on info but points it might be SF since i have 5 lug, but i can't be sure till i look and see but that bom doesn't come up.
The 1st is the axle that was in my my truck, and i only know that because i checked to see if it was still available which a lot of stuff is discontinued as was that axle also
Fact is that Dana Spicer changes pt numbers constantly, and has many misrepresentations of what the part is.
Sorry you don't believe it, but its true and you wouldn't know because you don't do this day in and day out, studying parts catalogs that aren't showing everything they do aren't the same as having it in front of you and not finding the bom in any cat, which has happened with quite a few different vehicles over time and not only the older 1 ton dodge axles. I have quite a few versions of the cats and some don't have listings for the 1 ton stuff at all.
If i had a dime for every bom that wasn't in the book or every bom that wasn't in the right vehicle description category or the parts actual doesn't show with the cats description i would have a few hundred if not a thousand dollars worth of dimes. Or 60 pt's listed with 70's and vica versa, please saying there cats are spot on isn't accurate at all, same holds for other parts that people can't get because they are misrepresented and the description is wrong
I have had 2 dodge 1 tons with hd 60's, and i'll agree the hd 60 isn't everywhere, but you did say they NEVER used a FF 60 w/35 except one vehicle, you did say ""Other than a semi float 60 and the 78 Chevy camper van I have never seen a stock OEM Dana 60 with 35 spline, never. "" and i know that isn't true as i have had in my hands 35 spl axles from 2, and have done repairs on mini busses that oddly enough had a hd 60 and 35 spl also, oddly enough dana has no listing of such mini's nor did they have the 1 ton power ram in the cat, but dodge made them, or a couple of fords and even some jeeps that don't exist. Dana had and did use them in other stuff other than just that GM van you refer to.

.
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Unread 11-21-2013, 03:12 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evildriver-3 View Post
The pt#'s i listed are not all GM, one or two of them are, the 1st 2 are for the dodge, the one for the Jeep with whats in my comp is short on info but points it might be SF since i have 5 lug, but i can't be sure till i look and see but that bom doesn't come up.
The 1st is the axle that was in my my truck, and i only know that because i checked to see if it was still available which a lot of stuff is discontinued as was that axle also
Fact is that Dana Spicer changes pt numbers constantly, and has many misrepresentations of what the part is.
Sorry you don't believe it, but its true and you wouldn't know because you don't do this day in and day out, studying parts catalogs that aren't showing everything they do aren't the same as having it in front of you and not finding the bom in any cat, which has happened with quite a few different vehicles over time and not only the older 1 ton dodge axles. I have quite a few versions of the cats and some don't have listings for the 1 ton stuff at all.
If i had a dime for every bom that wasn't in the book or every bom that wasn't in the right vehicle description category or the parts actual doesn't show with the cats description i would have a few hundred if not a thousand dollars worth of dimes. Or 60 pt's listed with 70's and vica versa, please saying there cats are spot on isn't accurate at all, same holds for other parts that people can't get because they are misrepresented and the description is wrong
I have had 2 dodge 1 tons with hd 60's, and i'll agree the hd 60 isn't everywhere, but you did say they NEVER used a FF 60 w/35 except one vehicle, you did say ""Other than a semi float 60 and the 78 Chevy camper van I have never seen a stock OEM Dana 60 with 35 spline, never. "" and i know that isn't true as i have had in my hands 35 spl axles from 2, and have done repairs on mini busses that oddly enough had a hd 60 and 35 spl also, oddly enough dana has no listing of such mini's nor did they have the 1 ton power ram in the cat, but dodge made them, or a couple of fords and even some jeeps that don't exist. Dana had and did use them in other stuff other than just that GM van you refer to.

.
Prove it, or its de-bunked plain and simple. And how do you know that I didn't do this type of work, I spent 11 years in this field tearing hundreds if not thousands of axle's apart.
Ive spent hours in Dana's catalogs searching axle's and I'm telling you if they made it its in print or on file.
A multi billon dollar Corp. is not going to build a Rep on the fact that buyers ( Ford, Chevy, Dodge, the mining Ind. and hundreds of other app's. ) could not get a replacement part or hole axle Assy.

Jason.
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