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Unread 03-01-2007, 08:41 PM   #1
rtsatl
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cryogenically processing ring and pinion

I need to replace my front ring and pinion in my dana 30 and i know that is the weak spot. there is a place close to me that will cryogenically process a ring and pinion set for $90.00 and i wanted to know if this price is worth the strength that cryogenic treatment will provide.

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Unread 03-02-2007, 01:27 AM   #2
Twig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtsatl
I need to replace my front ring and pinion in my dana 30 and i know that is the weak spot. there is a place close to me that will cryogenically process a ring and pinion set for $90.00 and i wanted to know if this price is worth the strength that cryogenic treatment will provide.
Cryogenic as in make it cold? I've never heard of cold working that strengthens gears with out an applied load in any of my engineering classes, let alone in the time I've put into researching gear installs.
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Unread 03-02-2007, 06:57 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Twig
Cryogenic as in make it cold? I've never heard of cold working that strengthens gears with out an applied load in any of my engineering classes, let alone in the time I've put into researching gear installs.
That's what i think that they do, they say it completes the heat treating process.
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Unread 03-02-2007, 09:40 AM   #4
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Maybe you could ask them for some comparison numbers of cryo'd gear strength vs outta the box gear strength. Then you could decide if it's worth your money.
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Unread 03-02-2007, 04:28 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Twig
Maybe you could ask them for some comparison numbers of cryo'd gear strength vs outta the box gear strength. Then you could decide if it's worth your money.
it does indeed add strength to the gears.
when certian hard metals are processes into shape, normal room temperature may not be enough to completely congeal the metal molecules. cryogenically treating them may form a better grain through the metal and the molecules will not move again unless subjected to extreme heat. This is usually only possible in very hard steel (like gears, 300M etc).
some folks swear that ancient axle shafts from northern trucks never break after many long winters, but I'm from WI and I broke plenty of them.

Is it worth the cost?
not for me.. I install my own gears and they are warranteed (and I have a HP 44 in the front)
for you...maybe.
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Unread 03-02-2007, 07:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twig
Maybe you could ask them for some comparison numbers of cryo'd gear strength vs outta the box gear strength. Then you could decide if it's worth your money.
You need to study the changes of austenite to martensite in steels to understand the cryogenic process. It has nothing to do with congealing of the metal itself as all that happens as soon as the steel cools enough to solidify.

There is a contention that the heat treat process is incomplete at ambient room temperature and needs to continue futher down the temperature spectrum until about -190 or so. Ideally the -450 or so temp that indicates absolute zero or the point at which no molecular movement is able to occur would be best but that's not economically feasible or more likely even achieveable.

In a nutshell, studies have shown that the change from austenite to martensite still continues at room temperature to some degree and to complete it the heat treating needs to be continued cryogenically with liguid nitrogen to finish.

There is some debate as to it's merits, but studies do show an increase in overall strength, hardness to a small degree, and wear resistance.

Do a austensite to martensite search on google and do some reading. Most of it is pretty technical in nature and too far advanced for my limited education to deal with and regurgitate accurately.
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Unread 03-02-2007, 09:07 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Twig
Cryogenic as in make it cold? I've never heard of cold working that strengthens gears with out an applied load in any of my engineering classes, let alone in the time I've put into researching gear installs.
these guys get my stuff http://www.nitrofreeze.com/, a little to far for you but they do it buy the pound ( 3.90 a pound ). they have done my front 60 shafts and they are going to get the 14 bolt shafts to, jason.
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Unread 03-08-2007, 08:32 AM   #8
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My buddy has a 93yj 4.0l. he is running american farmer 18.4-16.1 tractors with stock axles. Every time he went mudding he would break his front ring and pinion. He tried out the cryo freexing and now has gone about a year with out breaking the gears but he does break the u-joints now. i think that this proves that it does add streangth but it may just leed to another week spot. at least the u-joints are easy to replace and alot cheeper! Conclusion- freeze um and hope the u-joint is the new weak spot!
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Unread 03-08-2007, 02:02 PM   #9
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Thanks your inputs, I decided to get it cyroed and hopefully it will save me having to replace it again.
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Unread 03-13-2007, 06:25 PM   #10
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more likely even achieveable.
Absolute zero can not be reached currently. We've gotten within one*c but know one has ever done it.

Also cryo'ing parts may make them more brittle. If done improperly that is.
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Unread 03-25-2007, 09:25 PM   #11
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theres an article in Jp or one of those mags I just read on cry. parts. they did ring and pinion shafts, i remember their u joints when frozen were said to be twice as strong, and brake rotors or pads (forget which) lasted 3 times longer. engine parts, tranny parts were also frozen, the article said trannys ran 50 degrees cooler and the engines ran smoother.....
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