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Unread 11-07-2008, 03:18 PM   #1
GreenJip
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Converting 14 Bolt Rear for a Front Axle

I was watching Exteme 4x4 and saw bits and pieces of this episode:

http://www.powerblocktv.com/sites/xt...22&ep_sea=0802

If I am not mistaken, I think they converted a 14 bolt rear to a front axle. I tried searching and cannot find any detailed info on similar swaps or aftermarket support for this conversion.

Can you guys give any insight or helpful links for this type of swap. I am familar with setting up brackets on rear axles, but dont know what quirky things to look for when shortening tubes and converting rear ends to support steering systems.

Thanks in advancce for any input.

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Unread 11-07-2008, 06:00 PM   #2
forbeer
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i know nothing, nutta about chevy axles....

BUT axles in general...you can not put a rear axle on the front (unless someone makes gears that change rotation (i don't know if anyone makes them for chebby's).

for example, if you put a rear axle on the front without changing the gears the jeep will try to pull itself apart, or more correctly together. the axles will spin in the same direction towards the center of the jeep, i.e. the rear axle will spin towards the transfer case and the front axle will spin towards the transfer case until they ultimatly (theoretically) meet in the middle.

hth,

nick
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Unread 11-07-2008, 07:28 PM   #3
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look into Dana 70 front ends. very strong, even stronger than a kingpin D60.
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Unread 11-07-2008, 07:53 PM   #4
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[quote=forbeer;5968558]i know nothing, nutta about chevy axles....

BUT axles in general...you can not put a rear axle on the front (unless someone makes gears that change rotation (i don't know if anyone makes them for chebby's).

for example, if you put a rear axle on the front without changing the gears the jeep will try to pull itself apart, or more correctly together. the axles will spin in the same direction towards the center of the jeep, i.e. the rear axle will spin towards the transfer case and the front axle will spin towards the transfer case until they ultimatly (theoretically) meet in the middle.

hth,

not true, the axle will still want to drive it self forward your just driving it on the coast side of the gears. any low pinion front hosing is the same as a low pinion rear housing it will still drive the rig in the direction you want. it just depends on the what side of the gear. drive side is the proper way to use the gears coast is were you loose stregnth in the R&P's.

now if you decide to flip the housing over then you will be driving backwards. dont get confused with a HP housing they opperate on the drive side of the gears when used in a front applacation ( driving forward ). when there used in a rear ( a HP 60 or HI9 ) you will drive forward yes but on the coast side, so agin the coast side is the weaker side.

to the OP the 14 bolt does not have any inner axle seals so you will need two things. 1, you will need to build custom inner seal retainers or 2, use the custom outer seal reatainers. now the 14 bolt will have a 3.5'' OD tube and a stcok dana 60 kingpin C is 3 1/8'' so you will need your C's opened up.

the front dana 70 from a kodiack trucks are nice but you need to get past the goofy lug pattern. the way i would do is the same as the 14 bolt is have the dana 60 outer C's opened up to take the 4'' OD tube. this way you can run stock SRW outers from the doner 60 axle.

just wondering why do you think you need a 14 bolt front, are you breaking 60 stuff?
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Unread 11-08-2008, 08:40 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason m View Post

not true, the axle will still want to drive it self forward your just driving it on the coast side of the gears. any low pinion front hosing is the same as a low pinion rear housing it will still drive the rig in the direction you want. it just depends on the what side of the gear. drive side is the proper way to use the gears coast is were you loose stregnth in the R&P's.
I was waiting to see who would jump on that
I couldn't tell if he was kidding or not.
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Unread 11-09-2008, 09:39 PM   #6
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[QUOTE=jason m;5969055]
Quote:
Originally Posted by forbeer View Post
just wondering why do you think you need a 14 bolt front, are you breaking 60 stuff?
jason.
Im definitly not breaking 60 stuff. I currently have an 8.8 rear and HP D30 front.

I never even entertained the idea of a 14 bolt front until I saw the Extreme 4x4 show a few days ago. Its one of those things that got my mind going, "what if I wanted to build this.....". Anyway, I thought about looking into it now just to learn more about the possibilitys. Even if a D60 was cheaper to build, I think that a custom 14 bolt front would be a fun project and didnt know if it has been done enough to get alot of good info on it.

As far as fliping the axle over, are you saying that fliping it over would give me a high pinion axle with gear force on the coast side. I am assuming the gears would behave like my old standard cut low pinion D30 right. How much strength am I giving up on a 14 bolt gear set running this way.

Btw, thanks everyone for your rewsponses so far.
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Unread 11-10-2008, 05:51 PM   #7
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no a HP center section is a HP from the factory and drive's on the correct side of the gears buy pulling them towrards them self. but if you run a HP in a rear ( as a HP 60 rear or a HI9 ) then when you drive forward you push the gears forcing them to drive on the coast side and hence thats the weaker side.

this is why a HP rear around 30% weaker when used but most that run like the added drive shaft hight.

i would say if your were intersted in building a custom axle then look into building a 609. it will pretty much use the same idea at half the weight but retaining the stock components from a doner dana 60 axle.

heres a few i dug up on pirate.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...olt+front+axle

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...=14+bolt+front

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...ight=420willys and this is the best when i found.
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Unread 03-01-2010, 10:42 PM   #8
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i agree with jason m. here is what i have been thinking. there are 2 ways to put a 14 bolt in the front. 1: slide that dude in there and rotate the transfer case down so you can keep the axle housing in the center. (you will lose a lot of ground clearance). not recomended. 2: you can have the axle tubes drilled and pressed out and put the right short and long tube in. and you will have to add spindles for steering. i think it would cost a lot of money to have that done. i'm not sure but from the research i've gathered, dana 70 front spindles would work with the 14 bolt. the tubes are about the same. and you can have some reversed gears cut to your specs. but now your talking lots of $$$. i myself have been thinking about building a front 14 bolt. i just really like the idea. as for the gear driving theory, if you just put the 14 bolt in the front, in drive mode it would be like going in reverse. reverse mode would be just like going forward. it just depends if you want to drive on the coast side of the gears.
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Unread 03-03-2010, 11:45 AM   #9
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personally would rather have 60's than 14b on account of the 14 diff is HUGE and I don't hear that about the 60s as much. I have 2 14bff axles if you need one I'll sell you one.
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Unread 03-03-2010, 04:55 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shank38242 View Post
personally would rather have 60's than 14b on account of the 14 diff is HUGE and I don't hear that about the 60s as much. I have 2 14bff axles if you need one I'll sell you one.
14B FF i'm pretty sure is the strongest factory axle from GM.

Ive got one as well, and I am running it on 38s under a K5
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Unread 03-04-2010, 01:01 PM   #11
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I didn't say it was the weaker of the two, just that I would prefer the 60 on account that for the gain in strength I don't think the hassle of recouping the loss of ground clearance would be worth it.

60 = slightly weaker, but more ground clearance.
14b = slightly stronger, but less ground clearance.

i'll take the 60 and the extra ground clearance it provides.

Unless you want to run 40" or bigger tires, or shave the diff and turn the ring gear.
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Unread 03-04-2010, 03:02 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by shank38242 View Post
I didn't say it was the weaker of the two, just that I would prefer the 60 on account that for the gain in strength I don't think the hassle of recouping the loss of ground clearance would be worth it.

60 = slightly weaker, but more ground clearance.
14b = slightly stronger, but less ground clearance.

i'll take the 60 and the extra ground clearance it provides.

Unless you want to run 40" or bigger tires, or shave the diff and turn the ring gear.
LOL 14 bolt is slightly stronger and less ground clearance. Your dead wrong, My shaved 14 bolt has a 1/4 more ground clearance than my HP 60 front.

You find me a dana 60 with 10" ( and not the super 60 ring I'm talking rear factory axle's ) ring, a 3rd memeber supprot on the pinion, a 35 spline input pinion shaft, a two piece carrier with adajustble carrier bearing. 30 spline 1 9/16" shafts with a deeper pressure angle than a 30 spline rear dana 60 shaft.
You wont, there is only one FF dana 60 rear with 35 spline shafts that even come close to a 14 bolt in strength.
Now if your comparing these two as front ( like using the center section ) then I would still say the 14 bolt is stronger, but will take alot more work than its worth.

Jason.
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Unread 03-04-2010, 05:18 PM   #13
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Find a D70 front axle.

10.5" ring gear, 1.5" dia 35 spline shafts are easy/common, and it uses the same diff cover as a D70 does(there is just more pumpkin below the cover/around the cover). Clearance is a bit better than the 14b, but you can still shave it for more.

It will already have the seals in the axle housing like a front axle should so that will save some headache there.
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Unread 03-05-2010, 07:01 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by jason m View Post
LOL 14 bolt is slightly stronger and less ground clearance. Your dead wrong, My shaved 14 bolt has a 1/4 more ground clearance than my HP 60 front.

You find me a dana 60 with 10" ( and not the super 60 ring I'm talking rear factory axle's ) ring, a 3rd memeber supprot on the pinion, a 35 spline input pinion shaft, a two piece carrier with adajustble carrier bearing. 30 spline 1 9/16" shafts with a deeper pressure angle than a 30 spline rear dana 60 shaft.
You wont, there is only one FF dana 60 rear with 35 spline shafts that even come close to a 14 bolt in strength.
Now if your comparing these two as front ( like using the center section ) then I would still say the 14 bolt is stronger, but will take alot more work than its worth.

Jason.
Did you read my post? I think I said that the 14b is stronger and unless you shave it has less clearance than a 60, and you came back with I am dead wrong because your shaved 14b has 1/4" more clearance than a 60.

Pay particular attention to the last line of my post where I say "unless you want to shave the diff."

So I think we are in agreement that it is not worth the hassle to convert a 14b to a front axle as that is what the original poster was asking about.
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Unread 03-05-2010, 11:37 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shank38242 View Post
I didn't say it was the weaker of the two, just that I would prefer the 60 on account that for the gain in strength I don't think the hassle of recouping the loss of ground clearance would be worth it.

60 = slightly weaker, but more ground clearance.
14b = slightly stronger, but less ground clearance.

i'll take the 60 and the extra ground clearance it provides.

Unless you want to run 40" or bigger tires, or shave the diff and turn the ring gear.
Yes I read and the last line you posted was "shave the diff AND turn the ring gear". I just shaved it, not turn the ring.
So I still have a 1/4" more than the HP 60 front, thats my point. All you need to do is shave the lower lips off and you gain a inch, took me 10 minutes.

Jason.
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