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Unread 07-11-2002, 11:30 AM   #1
JPJeep
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Cheap Supercharging? (yes I tried the engine forum!)

Hi Folks,

I know little about engines, but I enjoy learning and find the topic pretty interesting. Anyhow, I was looking around for more jeep power (I know - why? - because it is fun) and I did some reading about turbos and superchargers. Both cram cold dense air into the throttle body under pressure, but are driven by different sources (turbo is exhaust and super is belt driven).

So I got to thinkin... (dangerous I know) How about an electric fan to raise the pressure? But a few google searches and that idea died (the energy needed to make ANY boost is HUGE! ).

So where could a person get a few pounds of cold dense air to stuff into the manifold..?

Well - I have an air compressor and tank .

Yup - just like nitro without all that lowrider rice burning smell. Plus you can air back up after you come off the trails.

Now (and here's where I am not certain) why would people not want to buy a NOS kit and use the throttle body plate to dump air from their tire tank for a little boost off the line..? You could charge the tank back up while rolling.

Any replies are appreciated - I'm just fishing for ideas and information at this time, but you never know what could happen...

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Unread 07-10-2004, 06:30 PM   #2
VAR
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This is the same idea i have been chasing for a week or two.

I think all you really need is a compressor that could elevate your manifold pressure. From what i understand this has to happen before the Mass Air Sensor, as that is what controls the fuel to air ratio. Its said that the injection system will compensate to a point. Tuning the exhaust, or changing the intake filter sys. would be the next step i imagine.

My idea was to use a small compressor (like those found on air horns) controled by a reostat switch (which would allow for customized boost pressures). Note: at lower psi this could produce better fuel milage when your on the hard and with more psi more power with lower rpm when you're on the soft. Of course a on/off switch would work as well, but you would have to incorporate a wastegate if your compressor produces too many psi.

just a thought, what do you think?
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Unread 07-10-2004, 07:55 PM   #3
kgordon7378
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I think both of you are thinking in the right direction, however, there is no way that a small air compressor could put out the amount of air volume that a turbo or supercharger does. These items run boost of anywhere from a few pounds to upwards of twenty pounds, and this is thru the 3 inch or so intake in which your jeep runs. Now i understand you have a large amount of pressure in an air compressor, however, try removing the hose some time, with only a 5/8 inch opening, the tank drains to no pressure in the matter of seconds. Trying to put this into a 3 inch intake, and getting that to last more than a few seconds, would be extremely difficult. The reason that NOS works better for this application is that it has almost 3 times the amount of oxygen as air does. Thus it can be used in smaller amounts. What i think you might just consider is doing a NOS kit to have those short bursts of extra power if needed, but remember, most states it is illegal.. but your not a ricer, so most cops would not know the difference.
Keith
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Unread 07-10-2004, 08:07 PM   #4
Dave Mathews
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Check this out

http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...wrangler40.htm


P.S. There is no way a tank like that would do anything for you.
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Unread 07-10-2004, 10:10 PM   #5
bugdewde
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volume........

As said before, a tank won't provide the needed volume of air. Granted, it has high pressure, but there just isn't much air in there. Remember, your 4.0L moves a lot of air on just one revolution of the crank. Not to mention several thousand revolutions in one minute or less.........
Then you have to provide additional fuel to compensate for the added air or your air/fuel mixture will be too lean....... computer mods needed.
Any form of supercharging puts added stress on your pistons, rings, head gaskets, etc...... due to the larger volume of air/fuel ratio in the same volume combustion chamber. Compression ratio goes up. Detenation is sure to follow. Minimum Octane Rating goes up.
The Jeep motor should only be limited to short and infrequent bursts if you do it.

If there were some easy method to raise performance without affecting the engine "system", don't you think every manufacturer would employ it?????

I'm not saying it can't be done, or that you shouldn't do it. I'm just letting you know that there is a trade-off to any modification, good and/or bad.

I'd go with the NOS idea. A supercharger is awesome. Had two T-bird SuperCoupes. 3.8L V6 with roots-type super charger...... Very nice........... but costly. Turbos usually rely on higher RPMs to provide boost. This isn't exactly a Jeep engine's forte....

Good luck,
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Unread 07-10-2004, 10:37 PM   #6
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Another thing besides the volume (as said above, it is about 4 liters per revolution x thousands of revolutions) is that you would need some way to prevent this pressure from flowing backwards in the intake system. otherwise, all the pressure would flow out the air intake. Some type of flapper valve may work, but you still have the problem of volume.
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Unread 07-10-2004, 11:28 PM   #7
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I agree with bugdewde on all the points he made. The idea you have may be enteratining but not realistic in the real world. I just got into the tj scene yesterday and i dont know to much about their engines specifically BUT i do know that if you want more power the easiest way is to get more air INTO and out of the engine as fast as possible. I think if you want more power you might try researching stroker kits for these motors. I am not sure if anyone makes one but it would be sweet to have even more torque down low
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Unread 07-11-2004, 01:28 AM   #8
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Unread 07-11-2004, 03:31 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2k3r1
I agree with bugdewde on all the points he made. The idea you have may be enteratining but not realistic in the real world. I just got into the tj scene yesterday and i dont know to much about their engines specifically BUT i do know that if you want more power the easiest way is to get more air INTO and out of the engine as fast as possible. I think if you want more power you might try researching stroker kits for these motors. I am not sure if anyone makes one but it would be sweet to have even more torque down low
There is a company that makes a supercharger for the wranglers, both the 2.5 and the 4.0 I think. Supposedly good output at low RPM's. They run about 5 grand. Anyone use nitrous in a Jeep? Maybe one of those fogger kits for like and extra 50 or 75 hp at WOT? I've been thinking about that for awhile now. Wouldn't help much on the trails, but it would be nice for the freeway.
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Unread 07-11-2004, 12:55 PM   #10
04JeepTJ
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What about a leaf blower? I think I saw an image of one rigged to a TJ on the 'net somewhere..
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Unread 07-11-2004, 09:26 PM   #11
Jim Shanks
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Personally I think the 2 words "supercharger" and "cheap" will never be in the same sentence. I think all you'd be asking for is problems.

Jim
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Unread 07-12-2004, 09:53 PM   #12
VAR
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Thanks to all for the great links and advice. I had a set back today, my 04 (unmodified) I-4 with only 700 miles on it, started leaking oil.

Of course the stealership is going to fix it but none the less, VERY VERY disappointing!!!
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Unread 07-13-2004, 03:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2k3r1
I agree with bugdewde on all the points he made. The idea you have may be enteratining but not realistic in the real world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2k3r1

Get new gears if you intend on frequenting the trail.


I just got into the tj scene yesterday and i dont know to much about their engines specifically BUT i do know that if you want more power the easiest way is to get more air INTO and out of the engine as fast as possible.



The 2.5 and 4.0 redline at 5000 rpm. The amount of airflow the coldairs provide (K&N etc.), will make no difference. Argue if you may, but that is a fact.



I think if you want more power you might try researching stroker kits for these motors. I am not sure if anyone makes one but it would be sweet to have even more torque down low



Now you're on to something realistic.
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Unread 07-13-2004, 04:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncb76
There is a company that makes a supercharger for the wranglers, both the 2.5 and the 4.0 I think. Supposedly good output at low RPM's. They run about 5 grand. Anyone use nitrous in a Jeep? Maybe one of those fogger kits for like and extra 50 or 75 hp at WOT? I've been thinking about that for awhile now. Wouldn't help much on the trails, but it would be nice for the freeway.
Avenger makes a kit...

but, I'd go with this one:

http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...wrangler40.htm

only for the 4.0L, though...

Factor-X Engineering makes a kit using a Vortech blower:

http://www.off-road.com/jeep/reviews...rxengineering/

although, after having a Vortech on my Dodge Ram, I think I'd go for the twin-screw design of the Kenne Bell for a Jeep...

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Unread 07-13-2004, 05:14 PM   #15
VAR
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Turns out they over torqued the oil pan from the factory, which split the gasket. Makes me wonder if they had that NOOB torquing any other parts on my engine. Thank God for warrenties!!!!
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