Build the ultimate high pinion D30 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > General Technical Discussions > Engines & Drivetrain > Build the ultimate high pinion D30

Ruffstuff Axle Simple Swap Kit!ROCK BOTTOM prices on LIFT KITS at Rockridge4wd!! WANT TO Introducing MONSTALINER™ UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed Line

Reply
Unread 11-15-2009, 02:06 PM   #1
mike_dippert
hodophobic
 
mike_dippert's Avatar
2005 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,131
Build the ultimate high pinion D30

I want to build a HP D30 for my LJ, which is my only form of transportation. All the info of my current setup can be found in my profile. My goal is to build it capable of surviving 35's. I'm confident the R&P of a HP30 can survive 35's, especially when it's behind an automatic.

So now, i'd like to hear your opinions on how to build it.

It HAS to have 4.56 gears, 5 on 4.5 hubs, and the ARB which is in my current LP D30. Other than those 3 things, everything from WMS to WMS is up for grabs.

The axle will be built slowly (as time/money allow) outside of the jeep. I haven't decided if I'm going to try doing the R&P myself or have a shop do it. Installing my ARB in the new housing will be done by the same shop if i go that route.

My ideas are:
cryo'd Precision R&P (a guy on pirate looks like he does it for fairly cheap)
RCV axles
EBC pads and centric rotors.
Ballistic Fab suspension brackets
Axle seals
I want to truss it also, haven't looked into the options on that yet.
I have not researched stronger knuckles either, but i'm aware of Reid Racing's product for a D30/44. (can anybody tell me about these?) <-----*edit* I researched this for a few hours and read nothing about keeping the stock bolt pattern, i'll probably just stick with the stock knuckles

__________________
You can't argue with ignorance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneRZA View Post
JF taught me that the 2.5L, Ax-5 and D35 together are so powerful that angels weep when I shift into 4LO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
The only thing a bicycle inner tube is good for, is tying a knot in the end of when you run out of condoms.

Last edited by mike_dippert; 11-16-2009 at 02:34 PM..
mike_dippert is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-15-2009, 05:00 PM   #2
tellicojeeper
Registered User
2006 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: s.e. TN
Posts: 453
to be honest a dana 30 isnt as weak as most people on here make them. my tj ran 35s and 37s with a detroit, 4.88s, and factory everything else. to beat all is was a low pinion. a high pinion 30 with a truss will not give you any problems. bddisi has ran both lp30 and hp30 on his tj, neither of them them flinched with 36 iroks. his is also a 5 speed. imho the main upgrade on a d30 needs to be in the ball joints once 35s are used. you can invest a lot of coin in a dana 30. im actually building a hp dana 44 for my xj cheaper than i could upgrade the 30 to spec for 37s and a 300hp ls1. if i was still using the 4.0, i would keep the 30 in there. just my experience anyways.
__________________
tellicojeeper
tellicojeeper is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-16-2009, 09:45 AM   #3
Happy Joe
Registered User
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,365
I would definitely reconsider staying with a D30.
Yes they can be made to work OK, if driven with care, but the chance of breakage is always at the back of your mind.

The HP 30 has 2 advantages it has a stronger ring gear and the pinion is a bit higher (reducing drive shaft angles).
If set on the D30 I would get some stronger axle shafts and the best Ujoints that Spicer makes then hope.
Both have the reputation for bending the housings (ergo; the desired truss, I assume).
No one, that I know, has thrown enough money at one to make it last behind a healthy V-8 under hard usage.

I switched the ARB in my front from a high pinion to a low pinion axle and honestly I never had problems with the 4.56 gears in either, obviously they needed to be changed from reverse cut to standard cut, (Ujoints and axle shafts are a different story in both housings; stock ones can be broken relatively easily with high traction 33s or 35s behind a healthy 6). I figure that the only reason(s) that my D30 is still working is that I am very careful with it, and my engine is an anemic 4.0L "ho" (which is likely destined to become a stroker to get back some of my lost performance).

When I step up it will be to a HP D44 (have the parts just have to retube the center section). Even then it will be limited to 35s or 36s (but at least I can get rid of these low traction BFGs...)

Enjoy!
__________________
...a well prepped, well driven, vehicle should do well in any terrain, including the highway.

Carburetors became obsolete during the last century... do what ever it takes to get fuel injection...It makes bigger grins off road.

Last edited by Happy Joe; 11-16-2009 at 10:21 AM..
Happy Joe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-16-2009, 10:46 AM   #4
flatlander757
Registered User
2003 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 5,417
I priced out my "ultimate" HPD30 and upgrading/regearing my rear D44 to match and I came out to over like $4000 IIRC.

$2300 delivered to my door got me built D60 and D70.

Something to think about.

On topic though, when my wife gets a Jeep her will keep stock axles and probably not see much more than 33" tires(she won't let me hack hers up), and a HP30 with Vanco brakes, alloy axle shafts with Spicer 760x u-joints(or the RCV stuff), a decent truss welded on(might as well do it while it is out), and a good thick diff cover. I want her rig to be safe as possible and stop on a dime and be as trouble-free as I can make it.

The Reid Racing knuckles are probably much stronger and in the long run will be cheaper to service the wheel bearings(normal cup and cone bearings, not a $90 sealed unit) and you can go to lockout hubs if you wish. Also you get better brakes in the process. Probably not as good as Vanco but definitely adequate for 35s. If you need more stopping power you could always get the hydroboost setup as well. The main thing you are doing is getting rid of the crappy TJ caliper design that flexes and doesn't allow you to brake to the pads' full potential.

For fun here is a price list I made a while ago... before I decided that I wouldn't be happy at 35s for long and to just skip wasting money polishing turds. I was comparing the WJ brake swap to a comparable Reid Racing knuckle setup as I was thinking about better brakes, steering, and hubs at the time...



There are a few things wrong with it, I think the stub shafts are included with the Warn Hub kit.

In a nutshell unless you want lockable hubs, better brakes, the ability to eventually do high-steer the right way, then the Reid Racing kit is probably more expensive unless you have a decent condition D44 laying around that you can rob all the parts off of to save a lot.

The WJ brake swap is another option too but you need to weld on the axle to move the trackbar mount to keep the steering geometry right between the drag link and the track bar. I was going to go that route as I decided I wasn't interested in locking hubs(they are weaker than a solid connection like a stock TJ... yeah they keep other stuff from breaking but I'd rather everything be as strong as possible).

So I have a HP30 and WJ brake parts collecting dust in the garage because either way the price is outrageous.


My $0.02
__________________
SOLDThe lumbering steel-laden pig - 2003 TJ - 40" LTBs - D60/D70HD - 5.86s - Detroit lockers - 110" wheelbase
Build thread here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006 Sport
Being able to make vroom vroom noises in Tonys Jeep was the highlight of my life.
Currently Jeepless.
flatlander757 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-16-2009, 01:29 PM   #5
mike_dippert
hodophobic
 
mike_dippert's Avatar
2005 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,131
i like that spreadsheet flatfender, puts things in perspective. I'm going to follow your list to see what all is involved.
p.s. i've been watching your build on here and pirate, awesome work.


my justification for throwing money at this turd is that my LJ will NEVER go above 35's, i may even stay on 33's for a couple more tire sets. It's going to stay my DD for a long time to come, and i need it to stay in one piece. I do tend to baby it on the trail though.
I'd rather spend $2k on upgrading my axle than risk having a crucial part of it break and the Jeep be out of commission while it gets fixed. I need it to get to work and school, so life comes to a stand-still w/o it.
__________________
You can't argue with ignorance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneRZA View Post
JF taught me that the 2.5L, Ax-5 and D35 together are so powerful that angels weep when I shift into 4LO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
The only thing a bicycle inner tube is good for, is tying a knot in the end of when you run out of condoms.
mike_dippert is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-16-2009, 09:14 PM   #6
flatlander757
Registered User
2003 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 5,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by dippert View Post
i like that spreadsheet flatfender, puts things in perspective. I'm going to follow your list to see what all is involved.
p.s. i've been watching your build on here and pirate, awesome work.


my justification for throwing money at this turd is that my LJ will NEVER go above 35's, i may even stay on 33's for a couple more tire sets. It's going to stay my DD for a long time to come, and i need it to stay in one piece. I do tend to baby it on the trail though.
I'd rather spend $2k on upgrading my axle than risk having a crucial part of it break and the Jeep be out of commission while it gets fixed. I need it to get to work and school, so life comes to a stand-still w/o it.
Sounds like polishing a turd is the right choice for you then

My TJ was my daily driver(and now can be again)... I just chose to get a $800 beater to allow this madness to ensue.

Another tidbit to think about
__________________
SOLDThe lumbering steel-laden pig - 2003 TJ - 40" LTBs - D60/D70HD - 5.86s - Detroit lockers - 110" wheelbase
Build thread here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006 Sport
Being able to make vroom vroom noises in Tonys Jeep was the highlight of my life.
Currently Jeepless.
flatlander757 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-16-2009, 09:42 PM   #7
tellicojeeper
Registered User
2006 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: s.e. TN
Posts: 453
i wouldnt spend money on one like i said earlier. flatlander is right. like putting a school girl skirt on grandma, in the end you still have grandma. if you want to run a hpd30, just put a locker and gear and let it be. when you break that,its time to go bigger not higher dollar shafts, but bigger tougher axles. you shouldnt have any probs with less than 35s unless you just beat the heck out of it. and d30 crucial parts will go way before a old school dana 44 will. a bigger axle will always outlive a weaker one cause youre not using it to its full potenital.
__________________
tellicojeeper
tellicojeeper is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-16-2009, 09:51 PM   #8
XJD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The East Coast
Posts: 22
"36's, ARB, shafts out of a V8 GC 3+ yrs did fine......just don't be a tool and hammer the skinny when you shouldn't
XJD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-19-2009, 08:05 AM   #9
Mark817XJ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 10
For what it is worth, I have a set of the Reid Racing 30/44 Knuckles that I've never installed. I'm asking $500 but haven't had any offers; make me a deal I can't refuse. These are new, never installed. PM me if you are interested.
Mark817XJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-21-2009, 10:49 PM   #10
grand95zj
Registered User
1995 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Moline
Posts: 39
why does everyone say that the d30 and d35s are so weak? do you guys drive that hard or am i just ***** footing it? because i dont think ive had any problems outta mine and they have 172xxx miles lol
grand95zj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-22-2009, 09:43 AM   #11
tellicojeeper
Registered User
2006 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: s.e. TN
Posts: 453
a 35 is a b****, if you havent broke one you will. ive seen xjs with 30s break them. a d30 is a true player, it will try its best to hang in there. i personally havent broke a major component in one, but i have witnessed guys spinning and let it bite one good time and explode the the diff. the tubes bend easily,and ive seen an inner knuckle bent. the unit hub sucks and the little balljoints start acting up with 33+ tires. the only time i recommend swapping a d44 or d60, is when someone starts talking about swapping to chromo axles and spending needless money. for the same money you can buy a d44 or d60 and have the beefy factor. i just bought a79 f250 high pinion dana44hd for 150 bucks. everything about this axle is way more beefy than the d30. if you have to upgrade to chromo. do it in the d44..... when you start upgrading the d30 the pay back is not as great.... i say run the d30 as long as it will last then move up. just dont spend the endless money it takes to upgrade when you could have a better axle.
__________________
tellicojeeper
tellicojeeper is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-22-2009, 11:54 AM   #12
Happy Joe
Registered User
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,365
Quote:
why does everyone say that the d30 and d35s are so weak?
Because they break easily...

I have to run medium traction tires (BFGs) to make A D30 last in moderate to difficult trails with very careful throttle work. I can break the axle joints with a bip of the throttle with high traction tires (boggers) on high traction surfaces (rocks). Even with this POS, gutless, 4.0 (just takes goosing it harder).

I only had a D35 for a few months (it needed regearing to match the tire size, anyway) before replacing with with a D44 (same with AMC 20s). The reputation for weakness is well deserved, IMO. I regularly see D35 equipped Jeep products parked, off road, with an axle half out of the tube while some one runs to town for a spare part. I have twisted the axle in the hub of an AMC 20 merging onto the freeway.

Flanged axle D44s or larger are really needed for serious off road applications, IMO. (Beware of small lug pattern D44s and aluminum center section D44s; they also fail, although not as often).

Enjoy!
__________________
...a well prepped, well driven, vehicle should do well in any terrain, including the highway.

Carburetors became obsolete during the last century... do what ever it takes to get fuel injection...It makes bigger grins off road.
Happy Joe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.