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Unread 10-09-2013, 12:42 PM   #1
rayh2013
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258 lifter noise

I am new here and the 78 CJ I just got is running . But after warm up i hear a tick tick noise.I had a muffler shop tell me there are no leaks. There is no noise at start up but in a few minutes it comes and as it gets warm it almost sound like a exhaust leak. It sounds near the firewall .So what is the correct way to check adjust the rocker arms on this motor ? Also it will make a rumble small back fire thru the exhaust when letting off the gas ONCE it is warm ?? I have not changed the plugs yet , but she has been sitting for 8 years, just got her running .thanks

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Unread 10-10-2013, 08:00 AM   #2
cruiser54
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Rocker arms are torqued down, not adjuatable.

Could have a sticky lifter. Put a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil in the crankcase and run it for a bit.

As far as plugs, wires, cap and rotor----change them.
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Unread 10-10-2013, 10:41 AM   #3
vadslram
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If it happens after warm up, what is your oil pressure?
Could be you are starting to have a loose engine (never happens in a Jeep) and after it warms up the oil pressure drops. MMO will help, an engine flush might too if it is a sticky lifter or restricted passages. If the pressure is just low then switch to a heavier wieght oil or synthetic so it doesn't thin out as much.

Wild thought though. Have you checked the EGR valve? could be after warming up the valve is opening and it leaks exhaust. That would definitely sound just like an exhaust leak and happen after warmup.
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Unread 10-10-2013, 11:20 AM   #4
cruiser54
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Also, what brand of oil filter is on it? Shine a light into the oil filler hole and assess the sludge buildup.
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Unread 10-12-2013, 01:16 PM   #5
rayh2013
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stp filter 70 psi on start up and 45 psi oil pressure after warm up . changed the pcv valve also will pull plugs etc. next
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Unread 10-12-2013, 08:38 PM   #6
cruiser54
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STP is absolute garbage as filters go. You could have high oil pressure but be starving the lifters for the volume of oil they need.
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Unread 10-12-2013, 09:16 PM   #7
BIGBADWOLF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadslram View Post


If it happens after warm up, what is your oil pressure?
Could be you are starting to have a loose engine (never happens in a Jeep) and after it warms up the oil pressure drops. MMO will help, an engine flush might too if it is a sticky lifter or restricted passages. If the pressure is just low then switch to a heavier wieght oil or synthetic so it doesn't thin out as much.
Oil pressure has nothing to do with keeping lifters pumped up unless the lifter is worn out or leaking. A lifter only takes about a teaspoon of oil to fill it. Once the lifter pumps itself up it does not need any more oil. All the lifter needs is oil delivered to it. Once the oil galley fills up with oil the lifter will pump ITSELF up....not the oil pump. The lifter is the pump.
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Unread 10-15-2013, 06:31 AM   #8
vadslram
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGBADWOLF View Post
Oil pressure has nothing to do with keeping lifters pumped up unless the lifter is worn out or leaking. A lifter only takes about a teaspoon of oil to fill it. Once the lifter pumps itself up it does not need any more oil. All the lifter needs is oil delivered to it. Once the oil galley fills up with oil the lifter will pump ITSELF up....not the oil pump. The lifter is the pump.
Lifters aren't pumps. They take supplied oil to pressurize a piston and remove any playin the pushrods. The check ball keeps the oil from immediately being squeezed out but it always has some bleed by that is replaced by the pressurized oil system. If there is to much wear, leaking, blocked oil passages not letting enough oil to the lifters or any other reason why the lifters aren't being supplied the the couple of CCs needed they will rattle.
If they were pumps then after a couple of cycles they would be fully "inflated" and keep the valves from closing all the way.

Quote:
  • A hydraulic valve lifter has four distinct parts, the check ball mechanism, body, socket and plunger. The plunger and socket move along with the push rod, and the body moves in conjunction with the cam. Riding in between the plunger and the socket is a spring and an oil cushion. The hydraulic valve lifter is pressurized by the oil gallery right at the start of motion in the engine. The pressure from the oil is only just enough to remove whatever clearance there is in the valve train, but not enough to actually open the hydraulic valve itself. The cam pushes on the hydraulic valve lifter's body in order to actually open the valve. The spring holds the check ball in its place, and the hydraulic valve lifter's motion opens the check ball cavit,y leaving the check ball behind, but only for a second or so. Then, the cam pushes the hydraulic valve lifter body forward, and the push rod holds the plunger in place while the check ball cavity gets smaller. The check ball is held in place by the support spring, and oil pressure in the cavity forces the check ball to move forward, and that closes the check ball cavity. This traps oil in the check ball cavity and makes the plunger assembly move with the hydraulic valve lifter body, and then that moves the push rod and opens the hydraulic valve. The oil pressure inside the check ball cavity prevents the spring inside from compressing further. The cam then finishes its rotation, and the spring makes the hydraulic valve lifter body go back to the rest position on the base circle of the cam. The check ball isn't under a lot of pressure then and is ready to be shoved into the spring by the oil pressure, which lets in oil into the check ball cavity and starts the whole cycle again.

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Unread 10-15-2013, 12:10 PM   #9
BIGBADWOLF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadslram View Post
Lifters aren't pumps. They take supplied oil to pressurize a piston and remove any playin the pushrods. The check ball keeps the oil from immediately being squeezed out but it always has some bleed by that is replaced by the pressurized oil system. If there is to much wear, leaking, blocked oil passages not letting enough oil to the lifters or any other reason why the lifters aren't being supplied the the couple of CCs needed they will rattle.
If they were pumps then after a couple of cycles they would be fully "inflated" and keep the valves from closing all the way.
You only need enough pressure to get oil to the gally. once the galley is full of oil the lifter reciprocating off the cam lobe will suck oil into its cavity through the check valve. Put a new lifter in a container full of oil and probe the plunger with a pushrod and you will see what I mean. Lifter hydraulic action has little to do with closing the valves....their purpose is to take up lash. Your theory about pressure is a common misconception. A lifter operation is similar to a hydraulic jack except the travel is less than 3/16 of an inch.
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Unread 10-15-2013, 02:13 PM   #10
vadslram
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGBADWOLF View Post
You only need enough pressure to get oil to the gally. once the galley is full of oil the lifter reciprocating off the cam lobe will suck oil into its cavity through the check valve. Put a new lifter in a container full of oil and probe the plunger with a pushrod and you will see what I mean. Lifter hydraulic action has little to do with closing the valves....their purpose is to take up lash. Your theory about pressure is a common misconception. A lifter operation is similar to a hydraulic jack except the travel is less than 3/16 of an inch.
But is a passage is blocked or the oil is of less pressure than the tappet it has no way of sucking it in.
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