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Unread 07-25-2007, 09:14 PM   #1
Bryson
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Well, it's been a while...but I have good news...

Hey guys,

It's been a while since I've been on here, so I thought I should check in... Well, I've completely dropped the custom turbo manifold idea for the 4.0L jeep. I honestly just can't offer them for a price thats reasonable, with the time that I have to put into the fabrication. I'm also not very satisifed with the fitment, of the components, and the possible LCA issues.


:EDIT: (see post #5!) However, I am going to produce a simple piping kit that will remote mount the turbo. The kit will include just the up-pipe, down-pipe, and optional charge piping to fit a basic T3/T4 turbo. I don't have a price set yet, but I think I can offer it for under $300, yet be of much higher quality and be able to support much more WHP than the 505 setup. I may even be able to get a IC kit produced as well, but I havn't looked much into that as of yet.

I hope I can make it up to the guys that I left hanging.

More updates to come!
Thanks guys,
Bryson

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Unread 07-25-2007, 10:32 PM   #2
-XJguy-
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Sounds good man...I have been in your shoes, in fact still kind of am...just regrouping (for a few years now).
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Unread 07-25-2007, 10:47 PM   #3
Rasta_Coty
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sounds good man, get to workin..lol
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Unread 07-26-2007, 10:13 AM   #4
SoloCamo
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Interesting. Keep us all updated!
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Unread 07-26-2007, 08:06 PM   #5
Bryson
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Well, it just figures that the day after I make this announcement, that I decide to change up the plans a little...lol. :P I was talking with a buddy at work that is hoping to turbo his TJ, and came up with the conclusion that I'm going to be building the kit to be a remote mount type turbo location.

I know I've talked **** about this design in the past, and I'd like to make it clear that this doesn't change how I feel AT ALL! I still feel that the remote mount type is a last resort in terms of prefered turbo placement, but in this situation I feel it's really the best course of action.

If I placed the turbo in the location like 505, some applications would require the A/C to be removed. It would also require you to pull the turbo off just to replace the damn spark plugs. I am a firm beleiver in easy maintence, and want the setup to compliment the vehicle...not to make it more of a pain in the *** to work on.

with that being said, I have decided on a simple setup that will mount the turbo in place of the factory cat. It will have a easy slip on adapter making it painless to install onto the factory down pipe. The compressor will sit right behind the transfer case, which allows the air filter to be blocked by the majority of the transfer case. I will also make a filter shroud though to protect the air filter (and turbo/engine ) from rocks, rain, snow...etc. The Charge piping will route right along the driver's side frame rail (next to the drive shaft), and be secured tightly to the chassis so it doesn't interfere with anything. The DP will be cake...just a couple 90 deg bends and it's back to the exhaust...

I was origionally planning on just offering the piping, but I think I'll offer an oil line kit to go with the kit as well since it'll require an oil pump for the return line.

More updates to come.
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Unread 07-26-2007, 09:53 PM   #6
urban-yan
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the kit sounds interesting...
but with remote turbos... I rather not be first in line to try it. I'll take dibs on 5th place (and hopefully if one of the first few guinea pigs trys it in the mud and snow )... oh, and hopefull you WILL offer a complete kit. I'm far too stupid to piece my own.



.
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Unread 07-27-2007, 03:56 PM   #7
Bryson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urban-yan
the kit sounds interesting...
but with remote turbos... I rather not be first in line to try it. I'll take dibs on 5th place (and hopefully if one of the first few guinea pigs trys it in the mud and snow )... oh, and hopefull you WILL offer a complete kit. I'm far too stupid to piece my own.



.
Don't take this the wrong way, but maybe a turbo setup isn't for you. Someone who is willing to tackle this challenge, needs to understand the concepts and risks associated with a well built turbo setup. If you truely want to turbo your jeep, you shouldn't have a problem with peicing together some simple parts (that I can help you find ).

I honestly can't peice together a complete kit, because I wouldn't be able to offer it for a fair price. I also don't want to deal with the warranty/liability issues of other products. If I build a piping kit, I just have to warranty my work. I can then help the customer get the rest of the parts they need for the exact setup and power they are looking for. You have to keep in mind that all I do is TIG weld manifolds, and tubing. I am by no means a retailer of other turbo products.
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Unread 07-28-2007, 01:49 AM   #8
urban-yan
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well you're probably right. I still don't know what I really want (except for more power of course):

- I like strokers, but they're costly to install by a third-party mechanic (and my motor's running fine),
- I really like the 505performance supercharger, but their lousy customer service & steep unit cost (without a group-buy) terrifies me
- I like a standard turbo set-up, but I don't want to scrap my banks header.
- I like the idea of a cheap under-the-hood turbo set-up, but I refuse to ditch my AC
- and lastly, I like your concept, but I'm afraid of premature damage to the turbo/ air intake components from mud&snow, and I'm afraid of piecing the wrong components which could only destroy my dd reliability.

I'm a pretty picky person, and I definitely don't want to waste my money on something woefully overpriced; I guess that's why I'm interested in your offering. I don't expect a warranty, I guess I don't really need you to sell me a complete kit either just as long as you'd be willing to work with me to track down ALL (and I mean ALL) the necessary pieces on-the-cheap.


.

Last edited by urban-yan; 07-28-2007 at 01:59 AM..
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Unread 07-29-2007, 12:37 AM   #9
Bryson
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Of course man. I'm here to help by all means. I can tell you exactly what you need, and where you can get it. I simply can't be the one to sell it too ya

And I can assure you that the kit will be daily driveable, and handle the elements (although I'm sure deep water crossings, and deep mud are going to be a no brainer ). I am after all building this first setup for my very own 99 sport, which also happens to be my daily driver. I will definetly be doing a full test of the setup, and give it a fairly decent amount of time to prove itself reliable before I even think about offering it. If something does happen (not likely) then I'll make the correct changes needed. Being that I've been turboing cars for about 8 years, I know exactly what parts work and what don't. I'm 100% confident in my ability to be able to pull this simple setup off without a hitch.
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Unread 07-29-2007, 01:33 AM   #10
urban-yan
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oh I trust you, and I'm glad you're going to be the guinea pig on this project (it's always more re-assuring when the builder, himself, is willing to test the set-up on their own vehicle). In fact, I'm more worried you might catch tealcherokee syndrome than anything else. It's a pretty serious ailment; most people that catch it seldom recover.

Re: parts, hopefully, I'll be able to score some of the major components on ebay with your help (since I'm a total ebay junkie). It seems to be a good place to save a ton of cash if someone is willing to wait for the right deal.

I am curious beforehand: 01) have you put any thought into potential power gains from this type of set-up? 02) Will the stock ECU handle the system? 03) Will this be a standard turbo set-up or a low-pressure set-up that can handle regular fuel? 04) What do you expect as the total customer cost?



.
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Unread 07-29-2007, 12:51 PM   #11
Bryson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urban-yan
oh I trust you, and I'm glad you're going to be the guinea pig on this project (it's always more re-assuring when the builder, himself, is willing to test the set-up on their own vehicle). In fact, I'm more worried you might catch tealcherokee syndrome than anything else. It's a pretty serious ailment; most people that catch it seldom recover.

Re: parts, hopefully, I'll be able to score some of the major components on ebay with your help (since I'm a total ebay junkie). It seems to be a good place to save a ton of cash if someone is willing to wait for the right deal.

I am curious beforehand: 01) have you put any thought into potential power gains from this type of set-up? 02) Will the stock ECU handle the system? 03) Will this be a standard turbo set-up or a low-pressure set-up that can handle regular fuel? 04) What do you expect as the total customer cost?



.
Oh I'll definetly be fallowing through with this project. The only reason I havn't gone farther with the manifolds was because of fitment issues, long build times, and cost. The remote mounted setup actually takes care of all those problems.

About the ebay parts...definetly choose wisely, and I'd reccomend contacting me before making any purchase. There are sellers such as: xspower, ssautochrome for example that make cheap chineese knock offs that don't last 100 miles. However, if you can find a genuine Garrett, borg warner, holset, or turbonetics turbo in good shape, you'd be golden. And obviously, the same goes for the other parts as well.

1: A common rule of thumb with a decent sized turbo, is that you'll be able to get roughly 10hp per psi of boost. ex...10psi you'll be at around a 100hp gain. This can of course be increased or decreased depending on the turbo size, intercooling, motor VE, and tuning just to name a few. I don't see any reason why the stock motor can't handle a 100whp increase if the motor is tuned properlly. The amount of power iincrease is pretty much up to the user's will to push the limits, the fuel system capabilities, and turbo size. If you want a 300whp increase...go for it. You just have to be willing to accept the risk of blowing the motor

2. The stock ECU can handle the system. However...Some form of engine management system will need to be installed to tune the engine properlly (fuel curve, and ignition tables). You can do this through an Apexi SAFC and MSD BTM, or get an inclusive unit like the FTC1 from splitsecond. I HIGHLY reccomend the FTC1 because splitseocond has developed a unit specifically for the 4.0L. It also has real time map tracing like a good standalone ECU, which makes tuning much easier and effective.

3. All forced induction motors will require a fuel of a higher octane to prevent detonation. The setup will require at least 91 octane. However, because you can now tune the fuel curve with the engine management system, you can now run E85 (octane of about 105) which depending on your area, can be almost a $1 cheaper than 91. However, it's not available in all areas, so 91 or 93 might be prefered.

4. Total cost is ccompletely dependant upon the parts the user can find and afford. I beleive that if the user takes their time, and buys decent used parts, a reliable setup can be built for less than $1500. However, setups can get expensive very fast if you factor in a brand new ball bearing garrett turbo (1300), stand alone engine management, fuel system upgrades...etc. It would be pretty easy to spend over $5000 on a turbo setup (I have over $8000 into my turbo CRX in the turbo setup alone).

But I hope I can help out in that I don't intend on selling the kits for an insane price. I can weld tubing very fast, and cheap which should keep the kits under $400.
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Unread 07-29-2007, 01:16 PM   #12
SoloCamo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson
(I have over $8000 into my turbo CRX in the turbo setup alone).
and it still runs 14's!






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Unread 07-29-2007, 08:20 PM   #13
Bryson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo
and it still runs 14's!






lol. I didn't say it was a supra...



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Unread 07-30-2007, 12:27 AM   #14
urban-yan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson
About the ebay parts...definetly choose wisely, and I'd reccomend contacting me before making any purchase.
That's a given. I won't pretend I know allot about turbos, so you can rest assured I'd get you to sign-off on every component.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson
1: A common rule of thumb with a decent sized turbo, is that you'll be able to get roughly 10hp per psi of boost. ex...10psi you'll be at around a 100hp gain. This can of course be increased or decreased depending on the turbo size, intercooling, motor VE, and tuning just to name a few. I don't see any reason why the stock motor can't handle a 100whp increase if the motor is tuned properlly. The amount of power iincrease is pretty much up to the user's will to push the limits, the fuel system capabilities, and turbo size. If you want a 300whp increase...go for it. You just have to be willing to accept the risk of blowing the motor
well I always wanted something that makes 300hp at the crank (not even the wheels -- I'm realistic), but at the end of the day I'll take anything that won't blow my motor to kingdom come... I can't afford to tackle a turbo set-up and engine rebuild at the same time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson
2. The stock ECU can handle the system. However...Some form of engine management system will need to be installed to tune the engine properlly (fuel curve, and ignition tables). You can do this through an Apexi SAFC and MSD BTM, or get an inclusive unit like the FTC1 from splitsecond. I HIGHLY reccomend the FTC1 because splitseocond has developed a unit specifically for the 4.0L. It also has real time map tracing like a good standalone ECU, which makes tuning much easier and effective.
Would you have a link to the Jeep specific FTC1? I never heard of it, and I wouldn't mind reading up on it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson
3. All forced induction motors will require a fuel of a higher octane to prevent detonation. The setup will require at least 91 octane. However, because you can now tune the fuel curve with the engine management system, you can now run E85 (octane of about 105) which depending on your area, can be almost a $1 cheaper than 91. However, it's not available in all areas, so 91 or 93 might be prefered.
I'm always curious about fuel grade/ economy because I live in Canada, and our regular averages $4.20/gallon. Premium averages about $4.60/ gallon. I haven't seen e85 anywhere in my area yet. I really don't want to put myself in a position where I have to pay a premium for gas, and face a drastic reduction in fuel economy from the turbo at the same time. I browsed a few articles on remote turbos and some mentioned improved fuel economy over other set-ups... hopefully you'll be able to shed some light on the matter during the system shake-down.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson
4. Total cost is ccompletely dependant upon the parts the user can find and afford. I beleive that if the user takes their time, and buys decent used parts, a reliable setup can be built for less than $1500. However, setups can get expensive very fast if you factor in a brand new ball bearing garrett turbo (1300), stand alone engine management, fuel system upgrades...etc.
$1500? now that's a number I can live-with (and justify). I particularly like how I can spread the purchase over several months. I spread out the cost of my 300mm brake upgrade in a similar fashion. You can't do that with a 3800k supercharger.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson
But I hope I can help out in that I don't intend on selling the kits for an insane price. I can weld tubing very fast, and cheap which should keep the kits under $400.
right now I'm thinking, that -- once you're satisfied with the final/ road-test results -- I'll pay you for the pipes BUT I'll have you hold onto them... than I'll work with you on the remaining parts and have them sent directly to you for inspection. That would give me some guarantee that I didn't order defective parts. Of course, that's assuming you're cool with that idea. Like I said earlier, I don't know a thing about turbos and it would be better for me if I had someone with experience check over my purchases.



HAVING SAID ALL THAT.
I'm really interested... mostly scared about the air filter location, and engine management upgrade... but interested just the same.




.
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Unread 07-30-2007, 09:58 AM   #15
alexrule123
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If i only had money
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