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Unread 05-03-2010, 10:14 AM   #61
Jeepy84
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I don't want to throw in here with a "so and so that I know said" type reply but I think it will hopefully shed some light on the matter. Granted this is state specific and I do not have black and white textual evidence to back it up.
My father has sold commercial and light truck tires for over 30 years. He has managed two stores, our own family's and one of the locations of the company that bought us out. Anyway, I asked this question of him a few years ago. To his knowledge, beadlocks fall in with the "mutli-piece wheel" design group here in PA, even though we all know that they are two completely different things. Its a bunch of beaurcratic a**hats in Harrisburg who would rather make large sweeping legislation that covers everything, than get technical and really regulate the things that need regulated. Those laws were created probably before beadlocks were even invented or popular, but they're illegalized by the law just the same.
The crazy thing is, if you own a truck that is old enough to have come with multi-piece wheels, you can still endanger my father's employees and anyone on the highway by using them today as they are OE. I've seen one fail in a safety cage firsthand, its amazing what kind of destruction they're capable of.
As I said, I have no proof that this is infact or not infact the actual law, so dispute or agree with me as you will.

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Unread 01-21-2011, 10:02 PM   #62
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its a jersey thing
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Unread 01-22-2011, 06:32 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepy84 View Post
I don't want to throw in here with a "so and so that I know said" type reply but I think it will hopefully shed some light on the matter. Granted this is state specific and I do not have black and white textual evidence to back it up.
My father has sold commercial and light truck tires for over 30 years. He has managed two stores, our own family's and one of the locations of the company that bought us out. Anyway, I asked this question of him a few years ago. To his knowledge, beadlocks fall in with the "mutli-piece wheel" design group here in PA, even though we all know that they are two completely different things. Its a bunch of beaurcratic a**hats in Harrisburg who would rather make large sweeping legislation that covers everything, than get technical and really regulate the things that need regulated. Those laws were created probably before beadlocks were even invented or popular, but they're illegalized by the law just the same.
The crazy thing is, if you own a truck that is old enough to have come with multi-piece wheels, you can still endanger my father's employees and anyone on the highway by using them today as they are OE. I've seen one fail in a safety cage firsthand, its amazing what kind of destruction they're capable of.
As I said, I have no proof that this is infact or not infact the actual law, so dispute or agree with me as you will.
Are you talking about the older flanged and "lock ring" style semi wheels of years gone by?

Beadlocks when properly torqued are do NOT behave and are NOT similar to the multi-pieced wheels of past. They can't fail like those older wheels. I just want to make this clear to those unfamiliar.
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Unread 01-22-2011, 08:09 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepy84 View Post
I don't want to throw in here with a "so and so that I know said" type reply but I think it will hopefully shed some light on the matter. Granted this is state specific and I do not have black and white textual evidence to back it up.
My father has sold commercial and light truck tires for over 30 years. He has managed two stores, our own family's and one of the locations of the company that bought us out. Anyway, I asked this question of him a few years ago. To his knowledge, beadlocks fall in with the "mutli-piece wheel" design group here in PA, even though we all know that they are two completely different things. Its a bunch of beaurcratic a**hats in Harrisburg who would rather make large sweeping legislation that covers everything, than get technical and really regulate the things that need regulated. Those laws were created probably before beadlocks were even invented or popular, but they're illegalized by the law just the same.
The crazy thing is, if you own a truck that is old enough to have come with multi-piece wheels, you can still endanger my father's employees and anyone on the highway by using them today as they are OE. I've seen one fail in a safety cage firsthand, its amazing what kind of destruction they're capable of.
As I said, I have no proof that this is infact or not infact the actual law, so dispute or agree with me as you will.
Two piece (Bud Wheels) are legal in PA, and are still used commercially, Perhaps everyone should research Jerry Bransfords posts, and you will find a letter he received from the DOT in regards to beadlock wheels and the legality of them.
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Unread 01-22-2011, 10:11 AM   #65
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Sim-beadlocks FTW!
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Unread 01-22-2011, 11:55 AM   #66
Jerry Bransford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepy84 View Post
I don't want to throw in here with a "so and so that I know said" type reply but I think it will hopefully shed some light on the matter. Granted this is state specific and I do not have black and white textual evidence to back it up.
My father has sold commercial and light truck tires for over 30 years. He has managed two stores, our own family's and one of the locations of the company that bought us out. Anyway, I asked this question of him a few years ago. To his knowledge, beadlocks fall in with the "mutli-piece wheel" design group here in PA, even though we all know that they are two completely different things. Its a bunch of beaurcratic a**hats in Harrisburg who would rather make large sweeping legislation that covers everything, than get technical and really regulate the things that need regulated. Those laws were created probably before beadlocks were even invented or popular, but they're illegalized by the law just the same.
The crazy thing is, if you own a truck that is old enough to have come with multi-piece wheels, you can still endanger my father's employees and anyone on the highway by using them today as they are OE. I've seen one fail in a safety cage firsthand, its amazing what kind of destruction they're capable of.
As I said, I have no proof that this is infact or not infact the actual law, so dispute or agree with me as you will.
Here is the federal DOT's position as stated in a letter sent out several years ago...

"Dear Mr. C,

I received this message from NHTSA this morning:

There are no performance or design requirements for rims covered under Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) No. 120. However, there are rim marking requirements in S5.2 and rim selection requirements in S5.3.2. Note that in S5.2, a reference is made to rims of multi-piece construction, and this implies that these multi-piece rims are allowed. The bead lock rim appears to be a multi-piece rim and there is nothing that Iím aware of that would prohibit them from being used for on-road vehicles. I have attached a copy of the standard. It may be that some State DOTs are regulating them.

Hope this helps some

Sincerely,
Reference Services
National Transportation Library
Bureau of Transportation Statistics
Research and Innovative Technology Administration
U.S. Department of Transportation"
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Unread 01-23-2011, 10:34 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Starboard M View Post


So what youre saying is that the code doesnt say beadlocks are specifically illegal, so therefor they are legal? Makes sense to me.

but alot of places take the "just because it doesn't say you can't do it, does not mean you can" attitude. thats how it is around here. It does not say they are Illegal, but it does not say they are Either and if they are not DOT stamped, you can get a ticket for improper equipment.


As far as why they are "illegal", it has already been brought up about the possibility of the outer ring loosing bolts causing a flat tire or the ring to come off in a worst case scenario. likely hood of that actually happening is slim to none, but i have seen stupider things made illegal for less reasoning


Here. Read this, explains it all.
http://www.liftlaws.com/are_beadlocks_street_legal.htm
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Unread 01-23-2011, 11:23 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by underpowered View Post
but alot of places take the "just because it doesn't say you can't do it, does not mean you can" attitude. thats how it is around here. It does not say they are Illegal, but it does not say they are Either and if they are not DOT stamped, you can get a ticket for improper equipment.
Once again... the DOT does not approve wheels. None of my wheels on any of my four vehicles have DOT approvals. Do yours?

Do you suppose that vehicles produced in foreign countries imported into the US have DOT approvals stamped into their wheels? Nope. Do ya suppose your local gendarmes are going to be ticketing their owners because of that?
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Unread 01-23-2011, 11:31 AM   #69
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Wow Jerry,

Almost a year later and people still can't simply read what you or timatoe posted.

For the record...
You cannot be failed for any state inspection due to any item not being "DOT" labeled. DOT does not "license" or "certify" or "approve" anything and cannot under its own mandate and Federal law. It can simply test and verify that a product either meets or doesn't meet federal standards. Every product legally sold in the US for vehicle use has already met minimum safety standards or it could not be sold in the US. In order to comply with law when a product does NOT meet minimum safety standards or if the company simply does not want to pay to get testing done, they apply a specific warning label, i.e. "for off highway use only" or to that effect. Beadlock manufacturers typically do not get D.O.T. testing done on wheels that so few are sold as they don't need the "marketing". Rock Monster wheels are D.O.T. approved because they PAID dearly for the testing and their price reflects this.

Here is a specific quote from a letter written by the Chief Counsel for NHTSA (DOT):

"We note that, as a matter of law, there is no such thing as "D.O.T. approved parts." We have no authority to approve or disapprove motor vehicles or equipment items. If you use this term to mean that an equipment item such as a tire or lamp bears a DOT symbol, the symbol means only that the manufacturer is thereby certifying compliance of that product with the appropriate Federal motor
vehicle safety standard. In no sense can you use the term in connection with parts of an air brake
system since the manufacturer of the vehicle certifies to the overall performance of the vehicle's air
brake system without reference to any individual part."


And for reference: http://www.bikersrights.com/nhtsa/notapproved/A-06.pdf

If any state inspection person tries to fail you for not having a "DOT certified" item on your vehicle, make them look up and cite the law (statute) and requirement. They will not be able to because it doesn't exist and federal transportation and commerce law trumps state law in this regard.

Another good example of this is UL testing of products sold in the US. There is NO law that REQUIRES a product to be UL tested but the myth that if its not its not legal to sell persists. That is also completely FALSE.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 12:27 PM   #70
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Wow Jerry,

Almost a year later and people still can't simply read what you or timatoe posted.

............

Another good example of this is UL testing of products sold in the US. There is NO law that REQUIRES a product to be UL tested but the myth that if its not its not legal to sell persists. That is also completely FALSE.
i can read, and understand. you need to Read the link i posted, as it says what you said pretty much. Wheels are SAE approved, and if not can be found unsafe and a ticket given IF they are found to be the cause of an accident, and most Beadlocks are are SAE approved.

and apples to oranges. UL is a independent company, not even a gov. mandated department. UL is a completely separate animal, just means that they approve your product and it is safe. there are many other companies similar to Underwriters Laboratories that do similar testing and approvals, UL is just the most widely known and accepted.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 12:28 PM   #71
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i can read, and understand. you need to Read the link i posted, as it says what you said pretty much. Wheels are SAE approved, and if not can be found unsafe and a ticket given IF they are found to be the cause of an accident, and most Beadlocks are are SAE approved.
Like the DOT does not approve beadlock wheels, the SAE does not approve beadlock wheels either. And despite what some beadlock wheel advertisements you have read imply or claim, no beadlock wheels are "approved" by either the DOT OR SAE. You're simply repeating a false rumor.

Once again, no one "approves" beadlock wheels. Even the DOT issued a letter to the fact that they have no problems or issues with beadlock wheels.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 12:32 PM   #72
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Like the DOT does not approve beadlock wheels, the SAE does not approve beadlock wheels either. And despite what some beadlock wheel advertisements you have read imply or claim, no beadlock wheels are "approved" by either the DOT OR SAE. You're simply repeating a false rumor.

Once again, no one "approves" beadlock wheels. Even the DOT issued a letter to the fact that they have no problems or issues with beadlock wheels.


Please Read point number 5 here, and get back to me on that.


http://www.liftlaws.com/are_beadlocks_street_legal.htm
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Unread 01-23-2011, 02:07 PM   #73
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Once again, the SAE (nor the DOT) does not approve wheels and they do not approve beadlock wheels. SAE may have guidelines they follow and/or recommend but that has nothing to do with if something is legal for use on U.S. roads or not.

You can continue believing whatever you want to but you should also re-read what the DOT has confirmed in that letter from the DOT quoted above. The DOT has no issues or laws against the use of beadlock wheels on U.S. highways and, again, does not and will not approve ANY wheels, bead lock or otherwise.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 04:48 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Once again, the SAE (nor the DOT) does not approve wheels and they do not approve beadlock wheels. SAE may have guidelines they follow and/or recommend but that has nothing to do with if something is legal for use on U.S. roads or not.

You can continue believing whatever you want to but you should also re-read what the DOT has confirmed in that letter from the DOT quoted above. The DOT has no issues or laws against the use of beadlock wheels on U.S. highways and, again, does not and will not approve ANY wheels, bead lock or otherwise.
I understand that, never said i did not understand your point. and i never Claimed they were legal nor illegal. but they are not approved by SAE ( as it says aftermarket wheels are, and beadlocks do not meet the SAE standard j2530) and if you read the link i posted, as it appears you still have not, Most beadlocks are sold under the caution for "off road use only" this does not make them illegal but the manufacturer does not recommend them for use on roads.


In black and white, plain English, it says that the aftermarket industry has Adopted the SAE standard for compliance, and it also says traditional Beadlocks are NON-compliant.

Once again, you fail to see my point. THEY ARE NOT ILLEGAL, however they are not recommended to be used on the road Per SAE and the manufacturer!
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Unread 01-23-2011, 04:53 PM   #75
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Most beadlocks are sold under the caution for "off road use only" this does not make them illegal but the manufacturer does not recommend them for use on roads.

Once again, you fail to see my point. THEY ARE NOT ILLEGAL, however they are not recommended to be used on the road Per SAE and the manufacturer!
most items you buy that are wrapped in a bag say not to put over your head, most chemical says not to drink. its all about covering the *** of the manufacturer. kinda like my warn bumper says not to tow but i can pull a 4500lb jeep out of a 3ft mudhole. its a matter of of how you read the print. either half full or half empty
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