What did you do to your XJ/MJ today? - Page 3492 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Cherokee & Comanche Forums > XJ Cherokee Non-Technical Forum > What did you do to your XJ/MJ today?

Stainless Steel Door Hinge PinsPoly Door Hinge BushingsFS: 2007-2013 Jeep Wrangler "HALO" Angel Eye Kit

Reply
Unread 09-14-2013, 03:53 PM   #52366
xrunndonex
Registered User
1994 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: coffeyville, Kansas
Posts: 1,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexrule123 View Post

I will bet you $1000 you have not done what I have said to do to test it. It will never stay at 14.4v ever once a load is placed on the system. Just the fact it takes a little bit of time for the alt to stat increasing output makes the voltage drop. If you would have said it stayed somewhere in the 12-13v area I might have believed you.

I also have 0awg wire run in my jeep and I did in my last jeep. I also run all sundown audio equipment and at one point has 2 SA15s but have recently downsized to a single custom 15" sub
Sundown great choice my friend. I'm looking at some digital designs 2515s supercharged. these subs love there Ports

xrunndonex is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-14-2013, 05:01 PM   #52367
S8NNG8
Registered User
1995 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Helena, Montana
Posts: 3,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexrule123 View Post

I will bet you $1000 you have not done what I have said to do to test it. It will never stay at 14.4v ever once a load is placed on the system. Just the fact it takes a little bit of time for the alt to stat increasing output makes the voltage drop. If you would have said it stayed somewhere in the 12-13v area I might have believed you.

I also have 0awg wire run in my jeep and I did in my last jeep. I also run all sundown audio equipment and at one point has 2 SA15s but have recently downsized to a single custom 15" sub
The amp is what wants the 14.4 volts. The battery supplies 12 and the cap supplements the rest as needed. The ESR limits the caps surge, but the 12v is still present cuz input and output are the same +post.
__________________
D3<!L!>3D
S8NNG8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-14-2013, 05:06 PM   #52368
S8NNG8
Registered User
1995 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Helena, Montana
Posts: 3,877
I don't maintain 14.4v 100 % of the time, but it comes close. Yes it is usually in the 12 to 13 range.
__________________
D3<!L!>3D
S8NNG8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-14-2013, 05:08 PM   #52369
xrunndonex
Registered User
1994 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: coffeyville, Kansas
Posts: 1,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by S8NNG8 View Post

The amp is what wants the 14.4 volts. The battery supplies 12 and the cap supplements the rest as needed. The ESR limits the caps surge, but the 12v is still present cuz input and output are the same +post.
How many Watts is the amp and what brand?
xrunndonex is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-14-2013, 05:09 PM   #52370
chris87xj
Jeepaholic
 
chris87xj's Avatar
1987 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 5,908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Clark View Post
The following is a series of excepts from CarSound written by Richard Clark which examines capacitors in every detail. Read first...then ask questions.

Lesson 1

Ok &ldquo;powertrip&rdquo; how about we have a discussion in basic electrical theory? At the end of this thread you should be the one that can explain to the world that according to ohms law it is impossible for these things to do any good. That is of course if you can admit that they do obey ohms law. We will do this a little at a time so how about you humor me and stick to my questions. We will do them a couple at a time so everyone can follow along. Let&rsquo;s do a little calculation. Suppose we have a resistor that is .017 ohms (seventeen milliohms). I think that is what you say the ESR of the giant caps is.

The ones I have seen have measured higher but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. According to ohms law how many volts are dropped across .017 ohms if 100 amps of current are flowing? How about if we up the current to 300 amps? Let&rsquo;s establish the answers to these questions before we go any farther. If we can't agree on the answer to this there is no hope we will ever get to the truth.


Lesson 2

Thanks David you are exactly right. If anyone wants this explained please ask David to clarify it. If everyone is going to follow this and understand fully the final conclusion it is important that no one miss any steps. There will be about ten lessons. Since*power
*trip has left the building we will continue with the rest of the class. ESR stands for equivalent series resistance. This means exactly what it sounds like. It means that if we have a source of voltage it will behave exactly as if it has a resistor of the same value in series with its output. An*amplifier
*has ESR, a power supply has ESR, a battery has ESR, and yes, a cap has ESR. Components have ESR&rsquo;s because we do not have perfect conductors to make things from.

And now for the homework. Last night we learned that if 100 amps flows through .017 ohms there will be a voltage drop of 1.7 volts. And if the amp flow increases to 300 amps the voltage drop will increase to 5.1 volts.

For the sake of theory only let&rsquo;s say we have built the largest cap in the universe and it has billions and billions of Farads. Its plates are made of a newly discovered material we'll call unobtanium. This new material has no resistance therefore our super cap has an ESR of ZERO ohms. We then charge the*capacitor*to 14.2 volts. We then place a resistor with a value of .017 ohms in series with one of the terminals of this cap. The question is: If we place a load that draws 100 amps from this cap what will the resulting voltage be on the load side of the resistor? What will the voltage be on the cap side of the resistor? What about if we increase the load to 300 amps? What will the voltages be on each side of the resistor?


Lesson 3
...

Lesson 4
...

Lesson 4 (continued)
...

Lesson 5
...
Lesson 1 has no lesson and #2 is flawed in theory so I didn't go to the trouble to comprehend 3, 4 & 5 since they seem to build off of 2.
Lesson 2 implies that current produces a voltage drop, while actually the difference in voltage potential generates the current flow.

In a series circuit the total available voltage drops across each component proportionately to its percentage of the total circuit resistance, which is why amps and caps are designed with low internal impedance so as much as possible of the available voltage and thus power is expended in the load of the speakers. Implying a 5v or even 1.7v static drop across a capacitor in a circuit isn't a realistic representation.

Capacitors steal a little power from a circuit during periods of lower power use and give it back under higher drains while exacting a small percentage fee for the service, and at very high speeds relative to human perspective.
That said, I'm not a big believer of caps being much help in improving performance of well designed car audio systems, but they can help the rest of the car electronic systems to perform better while sharing the added load of a heavy amp. Why CAR audio capacitors don't work

Today I pulled the wheels off the 87 and cleaned mud out of all four calipers. Ahh stops like new brakes again!
__________________
***Chris***

"You can set my jeep on fire and roll it down a hill,
But I still wouldn't trade it for a Coupe DeVille."

JeepForum.com/IndyORV@Redbird-SRA
COTY 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruiser54 View Post
Better to hoard Jeep technical info than old newspapers and the neighbor's mail, I guess.......
Vote for the August Cherokee Of The Month here - Yes YOU!!!
chris87xj is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-14-2013, 06:12 PM   #52371
Motorcharge
Registered User
1992 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 11,752
Drained and refilled my trans fluid and pulled my TB off to clean it. Then went with my mom to get her a WJ.

04 with a 4.0
102k on it
One owner with service records for literally everything within 50 miles of when it was supposed to be done. Thing is stupid clean, like I'd have thought it rolled off the assembly line clean. Took it to my shop before she bought it, only rust I could even find on the thing was some surface rust on the driveshafts. Only thing I could find with it was the front pads were right at the state minimum and their sales manager tried to talk over me when I tried to get them to replace them. Took them 6 hours to do all the paperwork and I won't go back to that Jeep dealership again, but she got a hell of a deal on it.

__________________
|Project Motörcharge | XJ Non-Tech FAQ | Ammo Can Lock Box | Motorcycle Build|

WANTED: YJ Rollbar - PM for details.
Motorcharge is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-14-2013, 06:44 PM   #52372
alexrule123
Registered User
2001 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 7,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by S8NNG8

The amp is what wants the 14.4 volts. The battery supplies 12 and the cap supplements the rest as needed. The ESR limits the caps surge, but the 12v is still present cuz input and output are the same +post.
It doesn't work that way.... How does the capacitor have a higher voltage than the whole system? It can't since it is not a power generator. Also no charging system in a stock vehicle supplies 14.4v most supply under 14v. There are some people who have adjusted the voltage regulator on their charging system to make it put out up to 18v but that is for people who compete and is not something you can do without the appropriate equipment. 14.4v is not a real world voltage and is used as a best case situation.
__________________
Quote:
The great thing about UDP jokes is no one cares if you get them or not.
2001 Cherokee Limited: My Build Thread
2005 Pontiac GTO 6.0L (DD)
May 2013 COTM
alexrule123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-14-2013, 07:11 PM   #52373
pdcomm
Registered User
1995 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Long Beach, Mississppi
Posts: 1,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexrule123 View Post
It doesn't work that way.... How does the capacitor have a higher voltage than the whole system? It can't since it is not a power generator. Also no charging system in a stock vehicle supplies 14.4v most supply under 14v. There are some people who have adjusted the voltage regulator on their charging system to make it put out up to 18v but that is for people who compete and is not something you can do without the appropriate equipment. 14.4v is not a real world voltage and is used as a best case situation.
Are you sure ?

I just sold a 1982 Honda CB750C that put out 14.4 volts at 3K RPMs . Granted it's not a 4 wheeled vehicle , but ...

I'd agree that most put out less .
__________________
1995 Cherokee Country .
http://forums.commonbiker.com/
Goes around , comes around .
pdcomm is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-14-2013, 07:34 PM   #52374
macklamar
Registered User
1996 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Hanover, Pa
Posts: 207
Worked more on adjusting my toe. Tie rod is still completely seized and what's worse, I can't get the tre's out either.

I also started trying to put my new steering damper on... the tapered bolt in the drag link is also seized :

Im not sure which actually works better, but I can tell you liquid wrench smells a lot better than PB lol
macklamar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-14-2013, 07:43 PM   #52375
YoureverydayXJ
Registered User
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: , Michigan
Posts: 1,931
Quote:
Originally Posted by macklamar
Worked more on adjusting my toe. Tie rod is still completely seized and what's worse, I can't get the tre's out either.

I also started trying to put my new steering damper on... the tapered bolt in the drag link is also seized :

Im not sure which actually works better, but I can tell you liquid wrench smells a lot better than PB lol
A pickle fork separator, or two jaw puller would be your friend. If you don't need to re-use the stuff put the nut back on just over flush with the threads and get busy with a BFH. Risky with parts you need to use because you can pound the threads off if it's stuck good enough.

Edit: was supposed to do a trail ride this morning but one of my front calipers was seized first thing. Tore it all apart and replaced the slides, but the knuckles are ****ed up from the pads digging into them. Got fed up and wanted to buy the rest of the stuff for dubJ swap, and found out someone hacked my debit card and cleared house.
__________________
'00 XJ not quite there...
YoureverydayXJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-14-2013, 07:45 PM   #52376
S8NNG8
Registered User
1995 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Helena, Montana
Posts: 3,877
Sorry I missed alot today. I have 2 Rockford Fosgate bd1000's.
__________________
D3<!L!>3D
S8NNG8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-14-2013, 07:55 PM   #52377
xrunndonex
Registered User
1994 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: coffeyville, Kansas
Posts: 1,666
Damn man they go down to 1ohm wasn't expecting that . Are they strapped?
xrunndonex is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-14-2013, 07:58 PM   #52378
alexrule123
Registered User
2001 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 7,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdcomm

Are you sure ?

I just sold a 1982 Honda CB750C that put out 14.4 volts at 3K RPMs . Granted it's not a 4 wheeled vehicle , but ...

I'd agree that most put out less .
It really depends on where the voltage regulator is set at but also alts don't put out all their power at idle and you have to spin them up so that's probably why you got 14.4v also don't trust the dash gauges they are rarely accurate.
__________________
Quote:
The great thing about UDP jokes is no one cares if you get them or not.
2001 Cherokee Limited: My Build Thread
2005 Pontiac GTO 6.0L (DD)
May 2013 COTM
alexrule123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-14-2013, 08:06 PM   #52379
macklamar
Registered User
1996 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Hanover, Pa
Posts: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoureverydayXJ

A pickle fork separator, or two jaw puller would be your friend. If you don't need to re-use the stuff put the nut back on just over flush with the threads and get busy with a BFH. Risky with parts you need to use because you can pound the threads off if it's stuck good enough.

Edit: was supposed to do a trail ride this morning but one of my front calipers was seized first thing. Tore it all apart and replaced the slides, but the knuckles are ****ed up from the pads digging into them. Got fed up and wanted to buy the rest of the stuff for dubJ swap, and found out someone hacked my debit card and cleared house.
Geez, your day was substantially worse than mine. Sorry bro
macklamar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-14-2013, 08:07 PM   #52380
S8NNG8
Registered User
1995 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Helena, Montana
Posts: 3,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrunndonex View Post
Damn man they go down to 1ohm wasn't expecting that . Are they strapped?
Strapped?
__________________
D3<!L!>3D
S8NNG8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.