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Unread 03-10-2012, 10:43 PM   #1
Flyordie
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Just got reemed by my dad for wanting to switch to Rotella T6...

I haven't changed my oil since October 2011. I have delayed it because they upped to GL-5 which reduces zinc even more. Down to below 500ppm if I read right.

He goes on saying 5W-40 won't be good for my motor because the engine wasn't designed for that kind of oil. He also *****ed and moaned saying that, I didn't "Do my research before buying it because if I had, I would have known that the Jeep motor can only use 10W-30."

I was frankly at a loss. My manual says 5W-30, so 5W-40 surely must not be that much different? Plus, its cheaper than the stuff I was using.. (Mobil 1 10W-30 Full Syn GL-4) Not using it again cause GL-4 is done, its now GL-5.

So, should I prove him wrong or just ignore him? Anyone else ever had that happen? This motor isn't a "broken in motor" either... Its just got like 10,000 miles on the rebuild. It NEEDS the Zinc.

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Unread 03-11-2012, 12:01 AM   #2
DualPurposeXJ
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the 5w-40 will be fine. if your worried about zinc and your dad makes you use a differnt oil just add an additive.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...7CGRP60033____

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...7CGRP60033____
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Unread 03-11-2012, 12:26 AM   #3
robsjeepxj
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He obviously has no idea what he's talking about. I will say that using high levels has been said to damage catalytic converters. I used the additive the first couple oil changes after I changed the cam and lifters in my jeep then went back to regular dino oil. Using whatever the manual says is always the safest bet
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Unread 03-11-2012, 12:37 AM   #4
DullesJeep
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The most important part is to just make sure you have oil in the engine.
As long as you don't run yourself low on oil, and actually change the stuff once in a while, I think his argument is just purely semantics.

I've used everything from 0W-40, to 10W-20, and everything in between. I never notice much of a difference other than price. Next time he gives you crap about what oil you want to run, just tell him "well, at least I'm changing my oil!"
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Unread 03-11-2012, 06:42 AM   #5
cruiser54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DullesJeep View Post
The most important part is to just make sure you have oil in the engine.
As long as you don't run yourself low on oil, and actually change the stuff once in a while, I think his argument is just purely semantics.

I've used everything from 0W-40, to 10W-20, and everything in between. I never notice much of a difference other than price. Next time he gives you crap about what oil you want to run, just tell him "well, at least I'm changing my oil!"
That^^ and using a good quality oil filter at each change. What brand do you use?
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Unread 03-11-2012, 09:11 AM   #6
Flyordie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DullesJeep View Post
The most important part is to just make sure you have oil in the engine.
As long as you don't run yourself low on oil, and actually change the stuff once in a while, I think his argument is just purely semantics.

I've used everything from 0W-40, to 10W-20, and everything in between. I never notice much of a difference other than price. Next time he gives you crap about what oil you want to run, just tell him "well, at least I'm changing my oil!"
Yea, I guess I should have told him its $12-14/ gallon cheaper than the stuff I was using. lol. Its just you see, this is a rebuilt motor, 10,000 miles on it essentially. I just don't want this motor to go out anytime soon. :-) High ZDDP is a requirement for me atm. Especially considering the 800ppm oils I was using during break-in. I added an STP Oil Treatment to the last oil change I did and it brought the ZDDP to 990-1000ppm.

With this Rotella T6, I should be running around 1200-1400ppm w/o the treatment.

The key thing he doesn't realize is this motor is using 70lb valve springs. Not the stock/OEM ones. It applies MUCH greater force than what you all would consider normal. Its got a mild cam, one step above OEM. All the wear zones have had their tolerances tightened in this rebuild. Thats why I just don't get what he is saying.
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Unread 03-11-2012, 04:27 PM   #7
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If you want high ZDDP, use Quaker State Defy 10w30 or Mobil 1 HM 10w30. The Mobil 1 has higher zinc levels than Rotella, and the Quaker State Defy is SL rated and has more ZDDP. Rotella T6 has also lowered the ZDDP levels a bit in recent years.
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Unread 03-11-2012, 04:47 PM   #8
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Look around over on bobistheoilguy (i'm guessing you already have from the way you talk about things). Plenty of people running T6 in 4.0s with good UOAs and no problems. I run it because it is a cheap full synthetic that people have shown to work well with OCIs in the 6-7.5K range.

Some links:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...2225841&page=1

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2307239


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyordie
He goes on saying 5W-40 won't be good for my motor because the engine wasn't designed for that kind of oil. He also *****ed and moaned saying that, I didn't "Do my research before buying it because if I had, I would have known that the Jeep motor can only use 10W-30."
My Jeep Owners manual specs 5W-30 for temps below freezing, so that statement is already wrong...
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Unread 03-11-2012, 06:51 PM   #9
Flyordie
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Originally Posted by donthelegend View Post
Look around over on bobistheoilguy (i'm guessing you already have from the way you talk about things). Plenty of people running T6 in 4.0s with good UOAs and no problems. I run it because it is a cheap full synthetic that people have shown to work well with OCIs in the 6-7.5K range.

Some links:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...2225841&page=1

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2307239




My Jeep Owners manual specs 5W-30 for temps below freezing, so that statement is already wrong...
Yea. Which is why I don't get it. 5W-40 is the better oil for year around use. Its thicker when hot, thinner than 10W when cold so it provides better startup protection in that sense. Temps this year were pretty mild but last winter was brutal. MANY days of single digit temps. So, I think 5W-40 will do better for me due to where I am. (NE Missouri)
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Unread 03-11-2012, 09:04 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by cruiser54 View Post
What brand do you use?
I usually use Mobil 1 High Mileage Synthetic. Been thinking about (haven't been able to find anywhere that sells it) switching to Rotella.
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Unread 03-12-2012, 06:04 AM   #11
rsurran
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I see in Jp magazine Amsoil is making a high zinc oil called Z Rod (Sept. 2011 pa. 86 "New Products") in both 10W-30 and 20W-50.
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Unread 03-12-2012, 10:37 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by cruiser54 View Post
That^^ and using a good quality oil filter at each change. What brand do you use?
I am currently using Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 10W-30 GL-4 (800ppm ZDDP) with 1 bottle of STP Oil Treatment for at least SOME added ZDDP as for an oil filter, WIX Premium.

Haven't changed the oil since October 2011 and I do A-LOT of short trip driving.
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Unread 03-12-2012, 11:24 PM   #13
donthelegend
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Originally Posted by Flyordie View Post
Yea. Which is why I don't get it.
Been thinking about this more and thought I would add something thats been kicking around in the back of my head. Based on your OP, I'm guessing your dad knows a thing or two about working on vehicles and has been doing just that for some time. My dad is the same way and he's the generally the first person I talk to if I have a question or I'm going to try something new or different, and he generally gives pretty good advice.

However, there are certain topics where the tech didn't change for a long time, and has just recently started advancing (even if recently means 10 years ago). He hasn't kept up with the advances, and just stands by what he knew to be true many years ago, even though that may be incorrect today. For example, my dad thought BFG A/Ts were great for mud, because he had them on his Scout back in the day and never got stuck, Thats great but tire tech has come a long way since then and there are much, much better tires now.

I think motor oil is a similar field, with synthetics becoming more common, and different companies doing a lot of different things with blends and add packs, and his knowledge just hasn't kept up with the current tech.

Anyway, just some observations from discussing automotive tech with my dad, figured it might apply to you too.
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Unread 03-12-2012, 11:28 PM   #14
Flyordie
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Originally Posted by donthelegend View Post
Been thinking about this more and thought I would add something thats been kicking around in the back of my head. Based on your OP, I'm guessing your dad knows a thing or two about working on vehicles and has been doing just that for some time. My dad is the same way and he's the generally the first person I talk to if I have a question or I'm going to try something new or different, and he generally gives pretty good advice.

However, there are certain topics where the tech didn't change for a long time, and has just recently started advancing (even if recently means 10 years ago). He hasn't kept up with the advances, and just stands by what he knew to be true many years ago, even though that may be incorrect today. For example, my dad thought BFG A/Ts were great for mud, because he had them on his Scout back in the day and never got stuck, Thats great but tire tech has come a long way since then and there are much, much better tires now.

I think motor oil is a similar field, with synthetics becoming more common, and different companies doing a lot of different things with blends and add packs, and his knowledge just hasn't kept up with the current tech.

Anyway, just some observations from discussing automotive tech with my dad, figured it might apply to you too.
Yes, he does. He was the one that had this motor rebuilt. He did most of the install work himself, I was just present and helped as much as I could.. as I was like 13 when it was done.


I live in NE Missouri, so wouldn't 5W-40 be ok for my type of climate?
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Unread 03-13-2012, 12:03 AM   #15
donthelegend
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Originally Posted by Flyordie View Post
I live in NE Missouri, so wouldn't 5W-40 be ok for my type of climate?
I'm farther south in MO, but our temps aren't that much different and I'm running 5-40 year round with no issues. However I have only had a jeep for a little under two years, and have been running 5W-40 for less than a year, and haven't gotten around to getting a UOA, so I don't really know that my oil choice is good or bad.

I changed based on my reading over on BITOG. They are all pretty big fans of HDEO in general, seem to recommend Rotella T6 pretty frequently, and have numerous reports of people running it in Jeep 4.0s with good results. I get to stretch my OCI out without worrying, I can run a full synthetic oil for cheaper than some conventional oils, and I get the robustness of HDEO. The only downside is that the weight isn't exactly factory spec. Guess what? Most of what we do around here is not what the factory had in mind when they made those specs and so the argument that "Jeep engineers knew best and you should never say otherwise" is a bit disingenuous to me.

There are more specific details that can be found about T6 (or any oil for that matter), like the ZDDP levels, the add packs of HDEO, and other things which can contribute to the discussion, but none of those individually are why I switched.


TL;DR?
RUN THE T6. IMO its a good oil and I think you'll be happy with it, but you should make the decision based on your own research, not mine.
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