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Unread 02-08-2013, 07:18 AM   #61
Dwatts5250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOBBiN View Post
From the Pirate4x4 link on page 1

Originally Posted by RigidIndustries
"Just to give everyone a heads up since I know you are talking about a group buy about the Aurora Lights. These Aurora Lights are illegal to sell or promote in the United Sates. You can face legal trouble from both us and the Patent company. They infringe on patents that we Rigid Industries have on our optics (Patent #'s 7,438,447 - 6,986,539 B27,114,832 b2) In the US. Im just trying to help everyone out and give you a heads up so you don't have any legal problems down the line since I have been monitoring this for some time now.

If any of you have any questions regarding this at anytime please feel free to PM me.

Thanks,"
Personally, since the economy is sh*t, if the chinese can make the same product for the prices that are insanely affordable, If Rigid isnt happy, maybe they should lower their prices...$600 for an LED light bar?

So long as you dont SELL the chinese lights or put up a website promoting them for sale...

(We are merely discussing a product...and our opinions of the chinese leds....no promotion from me)

I am anxious to see how they look tho. Patent violation or not

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Unread 02-08-2013, 10:04 AM   #62
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I look forward to seeing even more detailed pics of these lights and their output. I am interested in buying some for myself. It's hard to afford top-of-the-line brands, trying to save money for a house and helping pay my mom's medical expenses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOBBiN View Post
From the Pirate4x4 link on page 1

Originally Posted by RigidIndustries
"Just to give everyone a heads up since I know you are talking about a group buy about the Aurora Lights. These Aurora Lights are illegal to sell or promote in the United Sates. You can face legal trouble from both us and the Patent company. They infringe on patents that we Rigid Industries have on our optics (Patent #'s 7,438,447 - 6,986,539 B27,114,832 b2) In the US. Im just trying to help everyone out and give you a heads up so you don't have any legal problems down the line since I have been monitoring this for some time now."

Patent #7,438,447 is for the light reflector. It is claimed the shape of the reflector is completely novel and innovative.

Patent #6,986,539 is for the mounting system and making a hole for the cord. It is claimed this way mount the light on the car and make a hole for the cord is novel and innovative.

Patent #7114,832 is for a moveable reflector that is claimed to be novel and innovative.

Two of those patents are held by Illumination Management Solutions, Inc (now owned by Cooper Industries). One is held by Fujitsu. I don't know if Rigid is a subsidiary of either of those companies. If not, I wonder if Rigid would have legal grounds for a lawsuit. Either way, you gotta love a company that threatens to sue consumers for buying from a competitor. Patents are just a way to use government to make it harder for would-be competitors to serve the customers needs better, and they discourage innovation more than they encourage it. Whether or not an invention is different enough from previous technology to qualify for its own patent is purely subjective. There's no objective or scientific way to determine this. It's just a feeling.
It's also not uncommon for patents to be approved even later found invalid because of prior art that wasn't discovered in the application process (over 500,000 patent applications per year, half of them get approved). Did you know that getting a cat to chase a laser pointer is patented? Hopefully Rigid doesn't buy that patent, or a lot of people could get sued!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._P...ersial_patents
Quote:
U.S. Patent 5,443,036, "Method of exercising a cat", covers having a cat chase the beam from a laser pointer. The patent has been criticized as being obvious.
U.S. Patent 6,004,596, "Sealed crustless sandwich", issued in 1999, covers the design of a sandwich with crimped edges. However, all claims of the patent were subsequently canceled by the PTO upon reexamination.
U.S. Patent 6,025,810, "Hyper-light-speed antenna", an antenna that sends signals faster than the speed of light. According to the description in the patent, "The present invention takes a transmission of energy, and instead of sending it through normal time and space, it pokes a small hole into another dimension, thus, sending the energy through a place which allows transmission of energy to exceed the speed of light."
U.S. Patent 6,368,227, "Method of swinging on a swing", issued April 9, 2002 by patent examiner Kien T. Nguyen, was granted to a seven-year-old boy, whose father, a patent attorney, wanted to demonstrate how the patent system worked to his son (aged 5 at the time of the application). The PTO initially rejected it due to prior art, but eventually issued the patent.[43] However, all claims of the patent were subsequently canceled by the PTO upon reexamination.
U.S. Patent 6,960,975, "Space vehicle propelled by the pressure of inflationary vacuum state", describes an anti-gravity device. In November 2005, the USPTO was criticized by physicists for granting it. The journal Nature first highlighted this patent issued for a device that presumably amounts to a perpetual motion machine, defying the laws of physics. The device comprises a particular electrically superconducting shield and electromagnetic generating device. The examiner allowed the claims because the design of the shield and device was novel and not obvious.
Elsewhere, that same Rigid rep has said:
Quote:
We do have a problem with China company's being un-original, and copying patented Optic technology. The optics Aurora are using are old technology and an older design. Do to reasons i cant discuss they have been forced to change their optics and design. They have new optics and design out but are still trying to sell left over lights to the people without informing them of any legal trouble they will have.
...
We have a fairly stout legal team that is dealing with Aurora and a couple of others who have supposedly ordered our protected product from Aurora, and this too will now have to be addressed.
If Rigid honestly thinks the Chinese knock-offs are of inferior quality, then why should they care at all, except to leave consumers with fewer choices? I would think that if their product were that much better they could simply say "you get what you pay for," and not have to threaten consumers with legal action. Maybe the Rigid lights aren't wabble-proof, or don't have the "burn with petrol" feature. I need cheap lights that do both.

So just remember, Rigid makes such a good product that if you buy the wrong thing because you're on a tight budget, they might sue you. Feel about that how you will.
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Unread 02-08-2013, 10:39 AM   #63
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Unread 02-08-2013, 11:27 AM   #64
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Its not branded as Rigid, so its not a counterfeit. Just a clone or copy. I swear Rigid is almost as nutty crapple iPhone.
Ill buy chinese and save $540 for other nice Jeep stuff
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Unread 02-08-2013, 01:24 PM   #65
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Wow, big time thumbs down to Rigid for being whiney ******bags. That is all.
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Unread 02-08-2013, 01:44 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwatts5250 View Post
Personally, since the economy is sh*t, if the chinese can make the same product for the prices that are insanely affordable, If Rigid isnt happy, maybe they should lower their prices...$600 for an LED light bar?

So long as you dont SELL the chinese lights or put up a website promoting them for sale...

(We are merely discussing a product...and our opinions of the chinese leds....no promotion from me)

I am anxious to see how they look tho. Patent violation or not
I was referring to another company.
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Unread 02-08-2013, 01:53 PM   #67
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I tried to install the squares this morning. I unwrapped the wiring harness. Got it all laid out started pulling the front end apart and noticed I was missing something.

The wiring harness is nesscessary for the lights. Each harness is an additional 8$. They look exceptionally well made. They have an inline fuse and off/on switch for the lights.

I got the harness all laid in place and ran except power and ground. That's when I noticed that there was only the female end of the plugs. The lights just came with exposed wire ends. I couldve just cut the plug off and soddered everything in placed but I wanted the option to easily uninstall if needed. I went down to Polar wiring, my local wiring shop, and had them put all new plugs on everything. It costed $17.49

Old vs new



I probably won't intsall them until Monday now as I'll be out of town all weekend
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Unread 02-08-2013, 02:25 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlos14 View Post
pics! We need pics!!,!!
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Unread 02-08-2013, 03:52 PM   #69
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Hey guys, found this forum (and this thread) when I was doing a search to research the Hanma bars. Nice to see others found the value. I dont have 600 dollars to spend on a darn Rigid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MOBBiN View Post
From the Pirate4x4 link on page 1

Originally Posted by RigidIndustries
"Just to give everyone a heads up since I know you are talking about a group buy about the Aurora Lights. These Aurora Lights are illegal to sell or promote in the United Sates. You can face legal trouble from both us and the Patent company. They infringe on patents that we Rigid Industries have on our optics (Patent #'s 7,438,447 - 6,986,539 B27,114,832 b2) In the US. Im just trying to help everyone out and give you a heads up so you don't have any legal problems down the line since I have been monitoring this for some time now.

If any of you have any questions regarding this at anytime please feel free to PM me.

Thanks,"
I remember when doing my research, the NEW Aurora bars are OK. The old style (which they still advertise, probably to get rid of stock) are the ones that are "infringing". When you look at them, the optics look exactly like Rigids. Aurora came out with a new optic, but it basically looks like the Hanma/Totron bars now (perfect circles surrounding the leds, instead of that 4 sided squared circle of the "infringing" version). I dont think they are worth it. I remember when I was looking at them, they (aurora) wanted like 373 for a 20 inch + a 20 dollar surcharge for orders under the minimum (so if I only wanted to order one, i would pay $20 more).



I ended up buying my hanma bars from Vincent as well. Ordered a 20 inch and a box of the 4 LED cubes (had to order a box he told me, although he let me buy just 1 20 inch bar as a sample). Love the output. The 20 inch is almost exactly the same as my 20 inch Totron I bought in December (both cree LED versions). Not bad for the price. I ended up paying like 600 for the 20 inch bar, box of 18 cubes (only wanted 1 set, rest will go on craigslist), and 7 wiring harness. Shipping was 100 of that total.

Quote:
I had a feeling that they would have connectors on the light themselves, thanks for the update!

You have to arrange with them beforehand. When I was making my order, I requested plugs on all the "cubes", it was $1 more each light. Also, if you order the harness, dont forget to ask for the harness with 2 plugs for the cubes. They sell a harness with only 1 plug for regular light bars.
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Unread 02-08-2013, 04:00 PM   #70
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For those wondering about the new aurora optics, here is the pic they sent me. I dont think they are worth the price premium though.

Old on left, new on right.

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Unread 02-08-2013, 04:06 PM   #71
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The 21.5" double row bar:

I'll start with packaging. It was very nice and well done. All the lights came in fitted styafoam fitted squares. And all the hardware came in little ziplock baggies with nuts, bolts and Allen keys






The first thing I noticed after opening it:



Looks like glue??

On the glass I counted 3 finger pints:





And some sloppiness in the corner:



Other then that everything looks very nice. The light is VERY bright...



Onto the 2x2 squares,

Again. Packaging was very nice:



All the nessecessarly mounting hardware with nuts, bolts and Allen keys:




I noticed that the front was plastic on the 2x2s unlike the glass front on the bar:



And lastly the harnesses, remember! If you get lights you NEED harnesses.



Comes with an inline fuse, a cheap little on/off button and decent looking connections.

The lights:

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Unread 02-08-2013, 04:14 PM   #72
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One more thing about the harnesses is they come with a female connector and the lights themselfs come with just wires:

Wires from the lights as they come:



Connectors from the harness as they come: (on the left, the right is what I had put on all of the wires/replaces factory connectors)

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Unread 02-08-2013, 05:42 PM   #73
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When I ordered I wasn't given a choice of new/old model, Cree/epistar LEDs. This thread has helped alot
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Unread 02-08-2013, 06:23 PM   #74
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Hurry up and post pics Carlos, lol!
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Unread 02-08-2013, 06:43 PM   #75
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Has anyone bought a 42" light yet? I'm looking to put one right across the top of my windshield. I also want to put a 22" across my light bar hoop on my front bumper.

What is this CREE everyone is talking about, and would you recommend a flood or spot type of light for lighting up everything in front of me like a light bar is suppose to do?
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